Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 September 26

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September 26

Cigar lighter receptacle

Hello,

I would like to report what I believe to be an error in the history of the CASCO cigar lighter, under the Wikipedia "Cigar lighter receptacle" entry. The article states CASCO patented an automotive cigar lighter in 1928.

I own a CASCO cigar lighter that has the following engraved on the case: "Pat'd 9-8-25" right next to the CASCO logo. I have pictures documenting this but do not see a mechanism to attach them to this email. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.14.77 (talk) 00:00, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi. The article states that Casco invented "the first automotive cigar lighter with cord and reel" in 1928. Are you certain the lighter you have is this specific type of lighter? I think the patent spoken of may be this one though I'm not sure, but the issue is highlighted: Casco apparently filed different patents for different types of lighters, such as also: this earlier one in 1926. So unless you clarify that the one you have is of the "cord and reel" variety, the simple fact that it's a Casco lighter from an earlier date is not dispositive.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Guidelines giving conflicting messages

Appthority, Inc. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Title: Appthority, Inc.

Here are the messages I get as I: (1.) attempt to add a company logo; and (2) Save the article that I've prepared and that is resident in my sandbox. Can you help resolve these simple issues? Thanks

My examples are below:

Message 1: The article does not exist.

 This article doesn't exist!

The article Appthority, Inc. could not be found.

Message 2: There is already an article with this title. Warning: A page with this title exists.

Message 3: Go to Edit [I find is nothing about SAVE in Edit.] Warning: A page with this title exists. This is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved! → Go to editing area — Preceding unsigned comment added by FromTighCalan (talk • contribs) 00:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Here's what I see when I start to (re)create the article directly (for experimental purposes) - a message that it no longer exists:

19:24, 25 September 2013 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) deleted page Appthority, Inc. (A7: No explanation of significance (real person/animal/organization/web content/organized event))

You also have a message at you talk page, User talk:FromTighCalan, about this deletion, and another message about the logo upload. Please look at those.

I'm not sure what you were trying to do when you got the error messages; perhaps move User:FromTighCalan/sandbox to become an article? I strongly recommend against that, basically because it's a waste of time - the page will only get deleted again.

What you need to do at this point is (a) clean up the sandbox page (you have something like five copies of the draft article on the page); (b) Read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), and see if the company you're writing about actually qualifies (that is, is notable); (c) if you think it is notable, rewrite the article to make the claim to notability very clear (in the initial section); (d) read WP:Your first article, and do some further improvements to the article; and (e) Fix the footnotes, per WP:REFB. And yes, that's a lot of work. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:20, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Willing to write an article

I discovered a band not long ago (Any Day Given). but this band is still underground and that being said I can barely find any source's about them, where they're from not sure (Germany maybe), I know the band members name and they're position and instrument and possibly a couple of small show they've done. other than that I don't know if they've made any major concert. But I was willing to know If I could write the article and maybe someone better place than me could take from what I've started and finish it with accurate source's. What I want to know, could this article be considered as advertisement and by those term, rejected. thank you for your time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.59.247.140 (talk) 02:44, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello! Your article would likely be speedily deleted because your subject, an underground band with no major concerts or any type of press coverage, simply would not meet Wikipedia's notability requirements. Article subjects should be notable in their fields, so established bands with produced records, and significant coverage from reliable sources would be worthy of inclusion. How such an article is written would determine whether or not it was deleted for being an advertisement, but it doesn't sound like they make the cut yet anyway. Hope that helps, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

See WP:BAND for details of the notability of bands. Mjroots (talk) 19:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

How to see contribution to deleted articles?

Is it possible to list Wikipedia pages created or edited by some user (either nicknamed or anonymous IP address) after those pages have been deleted? --CiaPan (talk) 10:06, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Administrators can, but we mortals can't. For articles creater by the user, you can often get a clue as to some of them, as the user's talk page ought normally to have a notification when a deletion process starts (whether speedy, PROD, or AFD). - David Biddulph (talk) 10:14, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. CiaPan (talk)

Unless they were created by a blocked user via a WP:Sock puppet in which case there will have been no notification. Dougweller (talk) 12:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Table

Can someone fix the hidden section on my user page here. Not sure why the stuff after the barnstars aren't hidden, even though {{hidden end}} is after it. Thanks! CTF83! 10:48, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

At the first glance it seems to me you somehow messed up HTML div-s with 'hidden' templates. Try checking if the <div> – </div> tag pairs and {{hidden begin}} – {{hidden end}} templates are nested properly. --CiaPan (talk) 11:37, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Is [1] what you want? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:43, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, thanks! CTF83! 01:28, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Updates not visible

I made several changes, mainly additions, to the lemma Olga De Blanck Martín. These changes are not visible if I google for Olga de Blanck and read her lemma. But after I log in they become visible to me. What to do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FRijckaert (talk • contribs) 11:23, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

It will always take a while for Google to catch up with changes. If you are seeing different versions depending on whether you are logged in or not, that is normally a result of caching, so worth trying flushing the cache. See Wikipedia:Bypass your cache. - David Biddulph (talk) 11:45, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Also: in English - that word lemma, I do not think it means what you think it means. --Orange Mike | Talk 12:32, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

It is used that way, though rarely. The relevant meaning from the DAB page you linked to is headword, though FRijckaert is using it for the entry itself rather than the headword. --ColinFine (talk) 16:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Shower Cap

To whom it may concern,

As an African American, I was highly offended by comments left on the uses of a shower cap. For some ungodly reason, why would it be stated:

"Though mostly used in a purely practical way, the caps have sometimes also been worn as fashion accessories (particularly among African-American men and boys).[1][2] This second use was especially popular from the 1970s through the early 1990s."

This is most untrue. I have never witnessed anyone of any race using a plastic shower cap as a fashion accessories (particularly african-american men or boys. These shower caps are used in beauty salons all over the world. If anyone has one on it is only to prolong the deep conditioning of the hair or when the Jerrhi Curl was popular. The cap was only use to keep the hair retaining moisture as long as possible. IT WAS NOT USED TO MAKE A FASHION STATEMENT.

You truly need to correct this statement or perhaps just lose it all together.

Thank you, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.108.205.195 (talk) 12:58, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

The article supports the claim with two references. The second is to a web page which does not currently exist. The first is to a book which I don't have access to - maybe some other editor can check whether this thriller really supports the claim, and whether it appears to be a "reliable source". Maproom (talk) 14:22, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Can a work of fiction ever be a reliable source for claims "outside itself" such as real world fashions? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:39, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I would say no. Fiction is fiction; its purpose is not reportage. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:09, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I've removed that, based upon no relevant sources being present. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 19:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

references missing content

Boundary microphone

An error message says "There are ref tags on this page without content in them." However, all the references do have content between the ref tags. Can you help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brubart (talk • contribs) 13:02, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

[2] --CiaPan (talk) 13:09, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Resolved

In general the links in the error messages are very helpful, and in this case the link to Help:Cite errors/Cite error ref no input explained what the problem was. - David Biddulph (talk) 13:12, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

What was missing from the content between the ref tags was the NAME of each reference, which follows the URL of each reference. In other words, there was content between the ref tags, but it was incomplete. - User:Brubart —Preceding undated comment added 13:37, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

No. If you look at the diff that CiaPan posted above, you'll see that what he deleted to solve your problem was <ref></ref>, i.e. a pair of ref tags with nothing between them. And that is what the link in the error message was telling you about. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:05, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Note also, in reply to your comment above, that you do not need a name for a reference unless you wish to use the same reference more than once. See WP:Referencing for beginners, and in this context particularly WP:REFB#Same reference used more than once. What would improve your references would be to include more information, such as a title, rather than just a bare URL. This is most conveniently done using templates such as {{cite web}} and {{cite book}}. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:21, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how to argue about the speedy deletion of an article on Videofuego

Hello, I have received a message about the speedy deletion of a new article about Videofuego, the International Contest of Videos on Fire and Emergencies that I directed during 20 years. The message said: A tag has been placed on Videofuego requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organized event (tour, function, meeting, party, etc.), but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable. If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion".

I don't find none button to contest the speedy deletion, and I want to argue that Videofuego has been an unique event in whole world, so the Vicepresident of the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) fron USA, after visit one of the editions, published in the NFPA Journal that Videofuego was the Cannes Festival of the Fire Protection world.

I also found the following message in the creating page of Videofuego: 18:38, 25 September 2013 NawlinWiki (talk | contribs) deleted page Videofuego (A7: Article about an organized event (tour, function, meeting, party, etc.), which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject)

Please help me to solve this problem. I think have not been any International event like Videofuego in the world. I was in the process of complete the information in Wikipedia with references to the awards of the different editions of the contest and I think this information would eliminate the doubts on the Videofuego importance.

I don't know how contact with administrator who deleted the page and I am frustrated because I don't know how to continue.

Thanks a lot,

Fernando Bermejo Badajoz (Spain) Fire Chief (retired) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Videotraining (talk • contribs) 14:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I've notified the admin in question of your post here. Hopefully he'll explain the deletion to you. Mjroots (talk) 19:35, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Even if an event is arguably useful or unique, it has to be referenced in reliable independent sources (see WP:V) before Wikipedia can have an article on it. That way, our editors don't have to make the subjective judgment about what is "important enough" or "unique enough". Has this event been covered in independent sources other than the fire association's own journal? NawlinWiki (talk) 19:52, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

@Videotraining: Wikipedia has a different way process as to whether to allow an article or not - it's what we call "notability". You can read about it here. If a topic isn't "notable", as Wikipedia defines it, then (sorry) no matter how important or valuable you (or others) think the topic is, it's not going to be in Wikipedia. (Or if it is, it's not likely to survive very long. We delete about one thousand articles every day here.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 05:20, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Help with using Agence France-Presse images

I know that images coming from Agence France-Presse are copyrighted. However, according to their website anyone can use it provided that it is for "personal and non-commercial use only, provided they do not remove any copyright, trademarks or other proprietary notices." Wikipedia is a non-commercial website, so does that mean that is it okay to upload the photo as a Non-Free file? I would like to use upload the images coming from this article and use it in Zamboanga City crisis. --AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 15:07, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia content is licenced to be reused for any purpose, including for-profit uses. The only exception is the Fair Use rule which allows stricly limited use on WP of non-free content. Read that page carefully to see if the material you want to use will qualify. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Minor point: note that Wikipedia's non-free content criteria are more strict than the fair-use exceptions under copyright law.--ukexpat (talk) 15:44, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Links to multiple pages of cited source

In the article on Sir John Fogge I've put a link in the References section which takes the reader to p. 630 [3] of the Calendar of Patent Rolls, the page which contains all the mentions of Fogge. I've also included a citation to p. 213 [4], which refers to the grant to him of gold and silver mines. Is there a way of retaining the link in the References section which would allow the reader to see that there are several mentions of Fogge in the index, while including in the citation to p.213 a link which would take the reader directly to that page? I've seen it done somewhere on Wikipedia (can't recall where), and there are several other pages in this particular book which I'd like to include citations to which would take the reader directly to the page, as it's tedious for readers to have to scroll through an online book such as this one to find a particular page. NinaGreen (talk) 16:14, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

@NinaGreen: It looks like this is a sufficiently technical question that you're more likely to get an answer if you (re)post at WP:VPT. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 05:06, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Adding a person to Wikipedia

My late husband was the son of Gerald Finzi (composer), and was an outstanding violinist in his own right, touring with Yehudi Menuhin, and playing with leading orchestras. After playing for Prince Charles at Buckingham Palace, he gave up professional violin, and for the last 30 years of his life he ran a specialist firm in Dubai, creating some of Dubai's iconic structures (including the largest aquarium wall in the world at Burj Khalifa). Can I add something about him on the site? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.50.224 (talk) 18:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia relies on verifiable information written in reliable sources about notable subjects. If your late husband meets these criteria, then perhaps someone who does not have a close relationship with him will write an article. Astronaut (talk) 19:02, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

You can try and ask for help at Wikipedia:Teahouse, maybe a volunteer there would be willing to guide you further. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Indexed Annuities

Indexed Annuities are not guaranteed by the FDIC they are guaranteed only by the company and the State Specific amount Insured by each state and in each state it is a different amount on a guarantee EX. MS only will guarantee $100,000.00 per annuity. Important information for the consumer.

Your website sort of misleads persons to believe they are federally insured in your first paragraph with the mention of the FDIC insurance potentially being higher and this is a very commonly misunderstood problem with annuities.

I have 20 years in this business.

Please see the related link on awareness of this issue at the Society of Facts about Annuity Awareness. www.Annutityed.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.158.135 (talk) 19:24, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

The best place to mention this is the talk page of the article which "sort of misleads". Maproom (talk) 20:19, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Security On Wikipedia

What type of security/anti-hacking programs does Wikipedia employ to safeguard against various types of attacks, and being a free website that doesn't use any ads how are they are able to do that? As far as I know Wikipedia has never been hacked or shut down or anything like that. One more question I was always curious about is if someone was an experienced hacker would they have the ability to hack into Wikipedia and obtain the IP address (or other information) of a registered user? Thanks for Wikipedia. BikeRider95 (talk) 19:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the answers to your questions - but if I did, I certainly wouldn't answer them. Revealing how site security works would likely make breaching it easier. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

As for your second question: we think the answer is no, but we wouldn't actually know if there was a way, and if we did, we would fix it. Security holes have happened in the past, but they get fixed pretty quickly. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:44, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Regarding lack of ads, everything is funded by donations (foundation:Fundraising is linked in the left-side toolbar and there are banner requests posted on the websites during specific fundraising campaigns). DMacks (talk) 20:00, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• Suggest this be closed per WP:BEANS - and a brand-new account signing up specifically to ask this looks especially...curious. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Nothing to worry about, I'm just asking about something which I'm assuming is a legitimate inquiry about Wikipedia. Yes I'm "brand-new" because I don't edit on Wikipedia (I may decide to in the future) but I read articles regularly and decided I wanted to ask a question about Wikipedia's security and how it stays so safe from attacks. What's wrong with that? Guess some people here are a bit paranoid.

To AndytheGrump I didn't expect anyone to give a DETAILED answer about Wikipedia's security operations, just some general insight into how the site stays so safe w/o any people being paid money or by using ads or anything like that. BikeRider95 (talk) 23:36, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Maybe a better approach would be to check out reliable sources about Wikipedia. Mlpearc (powwow) 00:02, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

As noted above, Wikipedia is financed by donations. I am sure that considerable development work is done on security. The details of how a server is secured should not be disclosed, as noted above. Also, since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit, malicious users are more likely to take the easier approach of vandalism, which requires no technical knowledge, than of hacking, which requires either technical knowledge or at least a script/kit. My guess is that Wikipedia is seldom hacked because it is easy enough to vandalize. (Of course, vandalism is reverted, and the vandal is then blocked, but that is fundamentally no different than the fact that a hacked web site is rebooted and the hacker may be tracked down and charged.) Robert McClenon (talk) 00:18, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia runs MediaWiki software which is open source. If you're really curious you can download it and see for yourself how the security is implemented. RudolfRed (talk) 01:45, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Note: This question was also posted at WP:VPT#Security On Wikipedia (despite WP:MULTI). It seems to me that WP:VPT is the better place to discuss this topic (and the editors there are aware of this section), so I suggest any further postings be on that page rather than this one. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 05:00, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

It was closed at VPT as per WP:BEANS. Therefore the conclusion is that either that the question should not be discussed or that the quesiton is the wrong question. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:11, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Citation Template Not Appearing

Hi -

For some reason the Citation Template box is not appearing when I attempt to cite a source. I have successfully created articles in the past. I am using IE 10 and I have turned the pop-up blocker off. What else can I try? 19:55, 26 September 2013‎ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlsnider (talk • contribs)

@Disnider: Which article are you editing? RJFJR (talk) 16:53, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

New to Wikipedia!

Hi I’m new to the Wikipedia community! I was looking to update a few articles posted in the Help Out section. I know that Wikipedia has a proper way of formatting things. Would anyone be able to send me a link to some web pages that explain what the proper Wikipedia conventions are for grammar and spelling, formatting, and sourcing things correctly? If anyone is willing to help me out, that’d be great. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Natliout93 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

See your talk page. Welcome to Wikipedia. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:45, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Citing "notability"?

Hi,

I was wondering how to cite something like this: " so and so has a large following on Youtube." Do I just cite a youtube search of the subject's name??

Also, I made an article and it got placed somehow in "Articles for Creation" and not on to official Wikipedia. I made another different article using the Article Wizard and it went to official Wikipedia just fine. How can I move the the first article to official Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibnkalb (talk • contribs) 22:50, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

One of the problems with your proposed approach is that it requires you to define "large" This is something we do not want Wikipedia editors to be doing. What you can do is find reliable sources that make the claim and cite then, even then, it might be challenged per WP:WEIGHT--SPhilbrick(Talk) 23:03, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

What if I quote the youtube view count of a specific video? More precisely, I could compare my subject's view to the number of views other people of the same discipline get. Ibnkalb (talk) 23:06, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

No - that is original research. If you want an article to say that something is notable, cite a sources that says the same thing. If you can't find a source that discusses its significance, it isn't notable... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:19, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I see your point. Could some one answer my other question (see above in this same post)? Thanks! Ibnkalb (talk) 23:42, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

For clarification, I believe Ibnkalb's remaining outstanding question is: "I made another different article using the Article Wizard and it went to official Wikipedia just fine. How can I move the the first article to official Wikipedia?" Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

If the OP is asking about Ulrich Voigt, then the article's history shows that it was first created as a userspace draft, then moved to AFC by another user for review, and was finally moved again to mainspace after the review. - Karenjc (talk) 14:20, 27 September 2013 (UTC)