Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 February 18

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February 18

Photographing an object at the British Museum and uploading it

If I take a picture of an object or objects in the British Museum-that are on display for public consumption-can I upload it for use on Wikipedia? I had this lovely piece in mind [1], as the current Treasury of Atreus article makes me very sad in how badly it is lacking. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 18 Adar I 5774 00:19, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

A picture you take yourself of an item that is out of copyright and release under a free use license is a great contribution! Images of recently created works may have copyright issues, but that looks like it is an ancient carving. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:28, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Over 3.000 years. I think even the beautiful site sketches of it are in the public domain if I can find a way to put them up. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 18 Adar I 5774 01:33, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

To flesh this out a little... First of all, just to clarify, we're talking about American law, which is the operative law for the English Wikipedia. A plain photo of a two-dimensional artwork doesn't create a new copyright so whatever copyright the painting is under (public domain for instance if painted and shown before 1923), use that when you upload the image. A photo of a three-dimensional artwork does create a new copyright for you, so donate the file under CC-BY-SA as "own work" when you upload the image (all this stuff is on the upload form).

One question I don't know the answer to but would like to, is, if the museum doesn't allow photography, that doesn't affect copyright, but... is it the case that we only really care about copyright and if the taking of the photo was not allowed we don't really care? Herostratus (talk) 23:51, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes it is. Any question of violation of regualtions or of a contract embodied in an admission ticket or the like is a matter between the museum and the photographer. Wikipedia will not attempt to enforce such rules. DES ^(talk) 04:11, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! I was wondering about which to use! Thankfully for this specific museum all of those concerns don't apply because the only thing you're not allowed to photograph is the locks. I also have images of the so-called arched room, which is public space, but difficult for the public to visit right now because of the construction going on between the arched room and the west stairs where they are building new exhibition space complete with Viking longship. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | ^{Say Shalom!} 19 Adar I 5774 10:43, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Shirley Temple listed in Recent Deaths on Main Page

Where do I look to find out what days Shirley Temple was listed at Recent Deaths (in the In The News section) on the Main Page? Thanks. --71.178.50.222 (talk) 00:33, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

It was added on 11 February and removed on 16 February.~HueSatLum 01:17, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

You swapped the diffs. I have fixed your post. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks, HueSatLum (and PrimeHunter). (Template:In the news:View history). --71.178.50.222 (talk) 03:10, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Correction to my biography

Good Evening,

I am General Paul David Manson, the subject of a Wikipedia biography. I have just made a few minor changes to the article, but I was unable to correct an error in the title of the article, which refers to me as "Lieutenant-General Paul David Manson". In fact, my correct rank is General. (I was promoted to that rank in 1986.) Incidentally, the body of the article uses the correct rank designation. Would you kindly make the necessary change in the title section of my bio.

Thanks,

Paul Manson General (Ret'd) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.26.41 (talk) 01:43, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done Note: the page title is Paul David Manson (no rank in title). I changed rank in lead; there is no [Edit] for that section, but the lead can be edited by using 'Edit' tab (on top). ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 02:03, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello, General Manson. Please be aware that Wikipedia strongly discourages people from editing articles about themselves, their families, friends, companies etc: see conflict of interest for the reasons. This is particularly an issue in this case, where the text you added seems to be intended to exonerate you. I am not suggesting at all that this addition is inappropriate, only that you are not an appropriate person to have added it. Assuming that the source corroborates it (which is a problem, because the cited reference seems to have rotted, and I have been unable to find it on the Wayback machine), then the text itself is fine. But if you are tempted to make any other edits to that article, please read WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY first. --ColinFine (talk) 14:42, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Article by Dass Sheji

I have created my article and I need to know how to submit the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dass Sheji (talk • contribs) 02:31, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:Articles for creation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:43, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

User:Citation bot broken for several days.

See User talk:Citation bot#Discussion 21. Is anybody working on this?-- Brainy J ~✿~ (talk) 04:22, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

INDIAN ORIENTALIST FROM KOLKATA (INDIA)

please do include the name of late "Mohammad Shabbir Khan" from kolkata, India. He is the one whom no eyes have seen in millennium. He was a student of a famous Orientalist late Dr.Hamilton Gibbs(Oxford). He knew more than 10 different languages which include english, urdu, arabic, persian, german, italian, spanish, bengali, hindi etc. to name a few. he did triple M.A. in Arabic, Persian & Islamic History and did his Ph.D in Islamic studies. he was the founder of Indo-Arabic society in Kolkata(India). his scholarship destroyed his family life as he was unable to balance both. so he choosed his work over his personal desires. At the last stage of his life he gave all his Books costing in lakhs & flats, his cash money to Aliah University (Kolkata), 21, Haji Md.Mohsin Square-Kolkata-700016 (India). For confirmation & more detail please contact his only sign that he has left Md.Khalid Mustafa(B.Sc from St.Xavier),(Redacted). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.97.139.83 (talk) 06:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a reliably published source that supports the content you wish to have added? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:32, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Quench polish quench

Another (IP) editor and I have been improving the content at this article, I hope for the good. It has a record of the proposed deletion tag on its talk page Talk:Quench polish quench. Is it OK to remove that? I proposed the deletion and I removed the proposal since the new IP editor did not know how to do so—I told him I would do it for him (just being WP:BOLD). We have discussed the article both at his talk page and on the article's talk page so the PROD flag is a bit redundant, but should the record at the talk page stay or go? Si Trew (talk) 11:53, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Nope, Reference desk is not the right place. I know this is kinda internal Wikipedia plumbing, I just don't know what to do with the talk. Of course the PROD has been removed at the article (by me), but I don't know whether I should remove the record at the talk page. Si Trew (talk) 12:04, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

It needs to stay. Once an article has been PRODded - even if the original proposer removes the tag - it can't be proposed for deletion via that process again. The talkpage note serves as a record of the original deletion proposal, and so enables users (and admins who can't be bothered wading through all the diffs) to see at a glance that PROD is no longer an option for the page. Yunshui 雲‍水 12:37, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Delete unreliable sources?

Sometimes I see unreliable sources in articles. Example: Vajrasattva (wiki A, rygpawiki. Do you recommend deleting? JimRenge (talk) 16:40, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I recommend first starting a discussion on the talk page, asking for input from editors who care, and waiting a sufficient time for a response. --Jayron32 17:21, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

open wikis are not reliable and can be removed see WP:SPS. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:23, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Find out who wrote what in article

In a long article with a lot of history, it can be extremely difficult/impossible to manually find out which particular edit added a certain word/phrase/section. Is there anyway to do this automatically? Thanks, Benboy00 (talk) 17:30, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiBlame. --Jayron32 17:33, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yes, there is a tool called WikiBlame. You can access it on the history page by clicking "Revision history search" near the top. Anon126 (talk - contribs) 17:34, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Merged articles, how does this impact Wikidata

Hello. I merged the articles Land hemisphere and Water hemisphere into Land and water hemispheres. Both these original articles had been integrated into Wikidata. How do I integrate the new article, which presumably covers a topic addressed in two articles on most Wikipedias, with the Wikidata system? --LukeSurl ^{t c} 18:00, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

One of the limitations of the Wikidata system is that it handles only one-to-one mappings. More significantly, I'm worried about how you did the merge. It looks at first glance as if you did a cut-and-paste, which doesn't carry forward the attribution of previous contributions. Did you propose the merger, and did you go through the processes described at Wikipedia:Merging to maintain the attribution? — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Biddulph (talk • contribs) 18:19, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

This was an attempted bold merger, as I do not see it as controversial and there had been no major editing of either article in the last couple of months. Thank you for your comment, I have now worked through the steps of Wikipedia:Merging#How to merge. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 18:36, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

reference

Hi I was just wandering if anyone can help regarding references. I found an article in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_of_the_Russian_monarch#cite_note-34) to which I need to obtain a reference, but cannot do so as the source and citation were in my view not clearly written.

Kind regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.81.65 (talk) 18:54, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello. That citation has been done in a way which is not recommended, for exactly this reason: the reference is to "King, pg. 369". However, searching for 'King' on that page, I find that note 23 says "King, Greg The Court of the Last Tsar: Pomp, Power and Pageantry in the reign of Nicholas II (John Wiley & Sons, 2006) pg. 359", which I think answers your question. These should be changed, probably to use a named reference; but I'm not sure how to do different page numbers with those. (Later:) You use the template {{rp}} --ColinFine (talk) 19:24, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

And I have changed it: the references to King all point to the same bibliographic information (and similarly the references to Wooley). --ColinFine (talk) 19:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

where could ı change my relıgıon ın ıstanbul

how could ı change my relıgıon ın ıstanbul — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.186.48.94 (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. -- ColinFine (talk) 19:39, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Duplicate question removed --ColinFine (talk) 19:40, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

about references

editors,

There must be so many references available on a particular topic that needs to be edited.These references may present with conflicting views.There are vested interests to project only the best features about a content and leave the darker side for other gullible people to experience it, like foreigners who visit such places.Such references are not easily available,but they may be,in newspapers.Again making reference to a newspaper is difficult and even unacceptable.Usually,as I understand you would accept only references from published authors of repute in public life.Smaller references and personal experiences are ignored.How do I get around it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hatekerala (talk • contribs) 20:25, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

see WP:UNDUE and Wikipedia:UNDUE#Good_research- we present all major academic views of the subject in proportion that they are held. Admittedly, many of our articles, particularly articles about places, have been edited by people with a bias to promote tourism and need a lot of cleanup. However, in the reality of being an encyclopedia, coverage geared towards tourists (or explicitly geared at "balancing" that by showing tourists the "dark side") is not an appropriate angle or subject for coverage anyways. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

aaaand Wikipedia is certainly NOT the place for you to pursue your campaign of "Hating Kerala". -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:54, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Watchlist shows only most recent change to each page

Haven't figured this one out. This is a teaching account, and my main account has never had this issue. It's not the setting that groups watchlist changes together -- that's not checked. JavaScript is enabled, if that matters. I had noticed I wasn't seeing everything on the watchlist a couple days ago, but didn't think much of it at the time. Now it's evident. The two accounts watch some of the same [student] pages, and where a dozen edits to one showed up on the other watchlist, on this one it only shows one -- the most recent. Ideas? --Ryan McGrady (talk) 20:31, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

The difference is probably "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:50, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Well that's embarrassing. That was it. Thanks :) --Ryan McGrady (talk) 23:33, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Advantages and disadvantages of transcluding a sound file as "file" or as "media"?

Take for example a sound file such as "Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga". If you transclude it into an article you can do it either as "media" (like so: [[Media:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga]]) Ding dong or as "file" (like so: [[File:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga]]).What are the advantages and disadvantages to doing the one or the other? Is there one recommended way? In the case I transclude it as "media" I haven't found a way to allow the reader to display file information. Is there a way to do it? Please ping me (@Basemetal:). Thanks. Contact Basemetal here 20:57, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I would never think to click the first blue link to get a sound. the second method with the media player is certainly more obvious to me. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:36, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

@Basemetal: does Help:Files help explain it?--ukexpat (talk) 21:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

@TheRedPenOfDoom: I agree with you and I don't like the black screen. But I have seen people use the first method at times. Why does this method exist in the first place?

@Ukexpat: I don't know. I'll take a look.

Contact Basemetal here 22:09, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

@THeRedPenOfDoom: If you play the file using "media" you can 10:00 seconds into the file stop and bring it back to 00:00 or use the cursor to start playing at whatever point you want. There is no way to do that if you use "file".

@Ukexpat: Help:Files does explain the main difference. But not the small differences which I'm only discovering by trial and error. This is why I wanted to have people's views. Are those small differences documented anywhere?

Contact Basemetal here 22:40, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Media:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga is not a "transclusion". It is a way to wikilink directly to an uploaded file and not the file page File:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga. It also works for images and other types of files. Compare for example File:Example.jpg and Media:Example.jpg. It should not be used in articles but has other uses in the thousands of wikis using the same MediaWiki software as us. I have occasionally used it in discussions but beware it's disallowed for many files because their license require attribution which is given on the file page. By the way, a black background and whether a sound file starts playing depends on your browser. Media:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga is just a link to a sound file located at https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga. It is not a web page. No background or instruction to start playing is sent to your browser. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:42, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd like this to display exactly the the way it displays at the top of this page which as you can see has more functionalities.

Is there a way to do that? For example by adding a parameter [[File:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga|morefunctionalities=yesplease]] so it displays exactly like that and not like here.

Couldn't find anything at Help:Files. Doesn't even say what the available parameters are. Tried documentation at {{Listen}}. No luck there either. Contact Basemetal here 00:05, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Describe "more functionalities" because I don't see anything like what you're talking about within the part of the file that should display in an article. - Purplewowies (talk) 00:38, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Surely you must be able to see at the top of this page (3rd line down from the text which says "From Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository") a player that allows you to play the file but is a different player than this one in that it allows you to do things that you can't do with the one here, namely

1. restart the file from any point (here you have to let it play till the end before you can start it again; for long files that's especially annoying) and
2. play from any point you'd like whereas here you can only start at 00:00.

I'd call that at least more flexibility if not more functionalities. Contact Basemetal here 01:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

...I see a big black area that makes me download the file. I have a feeling what one sees may have to do with their prefs and computer, though I do agree that the thing I'm seeing is different than the gray "play bar" I see inline here. - Purplewowies (talk) 01:39, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

There was this, if you find it helpful. It offers the "start from time other than 0" functionality. - Purplewowies (talk) 01:48, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Try this File:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga. Don't you see a player at the top of the page which allows you to play the file?

Regarding your second suggestion all I can see is a mention of a start parameter that allows you to play from say start=00:10 seconds, for example starts 10 seconds from the beginning, but that's not what I meant. Here you're stuck with 10 seconds whereas the other player gives you a cursor that lets you set where it plays from as you're playing the file. Contact Basemetal here 02:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

That page results in the same player I see on pages like this. (On Commons, it's a black bar with a "play" image inset that prompts me to download it, where it plays in the application I have set to play ogg files.) I can't actually play said files as my Java blocks the player from running, but I see a play button, a moving time marker (which I know was movable by clicking or dragging on the timeline when I could run the application), and a menu button, along with the option for CC (all of which is identical to what I see on the file page). Is that what you see when you place the file on a page? - Purplewowies (talk) 02:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

No. When I place the file on a page, like I'm placing the file on this page right here then I don't get what you call the movable time marker (and I called the cursor).

I only get (from left to right): 1. the start/pause button, 2. a time meter (a clock so to speak with digits that change when the file is playing) that shows you where the player is at in the file (but this is not something the user can drag like a cursor), 3. the CC button, 4. an on/off volume button, 5. a button where I can set volume 6. the MENU button.

When I got to File:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga then the player I see at the top of the page is identical except that between the start/pause button and the time meter I get a cursor that allows me by dragging it to have the player move to a particular point in the file.

To sum up when I go to File:Church bells - Leverkusen, 2007.oga the player I get is like this (from left to right): 1. start/pause button 2. movable cursor 3. time meter 4. CC button 5. on/off volume button 6. volume control 7. the MENU button. Whew. I hope this is clear. Contact Basemetal here 03:23, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

It depends on browser and settings. In Firefox I see the same as you describe. I don't think there is a way to change it for others by editing the wiki code. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:22, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I concur. The version on this page lets me move the cursor where Basemetal says it does not. - Purplewowies (talk) 00:02, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I heard from Oliver Stone about Stephen Kinzer need help

I have a question, I was told well not really told directly, but I had sent a message to Oliver Stone. that maybe Stephen Kinzer, could help me My father passed away 4 years ago, at the age of 94. He left 3 diary s, from WWII I know it would make a great book Movie he was one of the Dolittle Radiers, he was involved in the attack of Japan, when the B-25 took off the UsS HGornet, he was a pilot bombdair, he was part of the b-25 grop that flew out of Africa, I have restricted and confidential flights of bombing raids, through Italy, so many cool things and he Flew 51 missions Red tails where there lead plans . I tryed to put it together in a story for my kids but Im lost I think mr Kinzer could really help, Im 70 years old and my dad was a hero, I did know this until his passing. can he help.I also have his training packet. Help me Name: joyce Kilday (Redacted) also on twitter and facebook,Im also a military widow My husband died while on active duty, 30 years ago at the age of 41. I hope someone can help me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.140.35.30 (talk) 21:56, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:47, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Alhambra High School/Athletics

To whom it may concern: Someone has been deleting all of the factual and verifiable information that we have entered under the heading, "League Championships." I am asking the individual or individuals involved to cease and desist with this cyber-vandalism. Csladiablofromalhambra (talk) 22:42, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

1) you need to actually verify content by providing citations to reliably published sources.

2) even if you have a reliable source that doesn't mean the content is appropriate for an encyclopedia article. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:46, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

3) See Revision history for explanations of why your good faith edits were reverted (per WP:SCH/AG and WP:NMMA).  ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 00:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

And Csladiablofromalhambra, please stop throwing around the word "vandalism". Just because you disagree with an edit does not make it vandalism. --ColinFine (talk) 01:09, 19 February 2014 (UTC)