Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 November 17

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November 17

Referencing errors on Alex Young (singer)

Reference help requested. Can anyone help me with the referencing errors? I am not sure how to fix them. Thanks, Mc2Mari (talk) 00:51, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

 Done Fixed. Dwpaul ^Talk 05:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Edits to watched page not appearing in watchlist

Hello- I'm stumped: Why might an edit to a userpage I'm watching not appear on my watchlist? Eric ^talk 03:10, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Because it happened on the 12th, and Watchlist shows only 72 hours unless you request more at the top. If you click "Show last 7 days", you should see the edit under the heading 12 November 2014. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 04:53, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Correction - that edit is not the last edit for the 12th, so it won't show on your Watchlist. If you click "Show last 7 days", you should see the bot's archive action under the heading 12 November 2014. Since there are no edits after the 12th, the page won't show on your watchlist after the 12th. Clear as mud? :) ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 05:02, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, but it gets better. The bot's archive action was at 20:07 my time, which was 02:07 on the 13th UK time. The subject edit was at 00:36 on the 13th UK time. In other words, results may vary depending on where you are, and we couldn't say anything very specific without knowing your location. In case you haven't already found it, the applicable help page is WP:WATCHLIST. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 05:13, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

There are several watchlist settings which will not show that edit. See Help:Watching pages and Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist. You haven't said anything about your settings so we can only guess but here is my guess: "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" is disabled so you only see the most recent edit in general. "Hide minor edits" or "Hide bot edits" is enabled so you hide the most recent edit which was a minor bot edit. You think the second most recent edit would be shown instead but that's not how it works. If the most recent edit is hidden then no edit is shown (many users are annoyed by this). PrimeHunter (talk) 11:29, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Ah, light dawns on Marblehead...Thanks for parting the clouds, @Mandruss and @PrimeHunter. I live in U.S. Eastern, but have wp set to UTC, was looking back 7 days, and have bot edits hidden. But I always forget that with that setting, a bot edit effectively hides a preceding non-bot edit. I do not find that behavior intuitive, and I can see why many users are annoyed by it. And I forgot about the advanced watchlist settings in Preferences. If I were WikiKing, I would make the "expand watchlist..." option something we could toggle on the watchlist page itself before I made it a Preferences setting. Eric ^talk 15:35, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Sheesh! The next time someone asks a question about Watchlist, my response will consist of two questions: Where are you, and what are all of your Watchlist settings? With any luck, they won't reply! :) ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 18:27, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, no, I hope I did not come across as ungrateful for your help! You and PrimeHunter parted the veil for me so I could see what was happening. Thanks! Eric ^talk 19:45, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Eric Very sorry, I wasn't referring to you, just the many Watchlist settings, and the effects of time zone differences, that make it hard to answer questions like yours in any kind of useful way. Actually you're one of the more agreeable people we see here at Help desk. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 20:15, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Many users have complained about this hide feature in the archives of Help talk:Watching pages but the right place is bugzilla:9790: "Watchlist doesn't show earlier normal edits when hiding bot edits or minor edits". It's from 2007 with many comments and six duplicate bug reports but no action so far. It probably doesn't help but if you vote on the bug then you may at least feel you have done something. By the way, this is my edit number 33333 in the preferences counter and around 9000 of them are to this help desk so I have some experience guessing the problems of users. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:54, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok, thanks again for your help and the info, @PrimeHunter! I weighed in on the bug report. Eric ^talk 01:03, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

I was thinking of the "vote" feature at top of the page but a post also works. I have added the issue to Help:Watching pages#Options.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 02:34, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh, man, this has been a humbling experience for me. I looked for a "vote" option earlier, but didn't find it. Now I found it, and voted. Eric ^talk 04:08, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Category:Military Doctrines

The military doctrines category appears to be an arbitrary assortment of military theories, tactics, strategies, and actual doctrines. All of these are related, but what degree of relatedness is "close enough"? Should we prune everything but actual military doctrines? What about the article on military doctrine itself? Charlotte Aryanne (talk) 05:41, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I have notified WikiProject Military History about this post, I believe the subject specialists there are better suited to dealing with this issue. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:52, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much Charlotte Aryanne (talk) 07:27, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Linking a biography

I am creating a biography page and I am trying to figure out how to link the references already existing on Wikipedia. Can you please help. I am new. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mollyangelsaint (talk • contribs) 05:55, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I think you're referring to what we call a "wikilink". To create the link Trinity College, Dublin, code [[Trinity College, Dublin]]. If you wanted to link to that page but omit the word Dublin, as Trinity College, you could code [[Trinity College, Dublin|Trinity College]], this being called a "piped wikilink". More at Help:Link#Wikilinks. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 06:10, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Before you worry too much about creating wikilinks to other articles on Wikipedia, I suggest you focus on providing citations of reliable, independent sources that support the claims and document the events in your biography of Aedin Moloney. Otherwise, the biography will be deleted (since it is currently a biographical article without citations) before you have a chance to link it to other articles and v/v. Wikilinks do not take the place of references that make your content verifiable (as Wikipedia cannot be used as a reliable source for itself).Dwpaul ^Talk 06:12, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

WP:WIKILINK redirect

WP:WIKILINK and wp:wikilink, entered in the search box, redirect differently. Is this correct? ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 06:28, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Prior to 2012 they both pointed to the MOS page until user Lambiam changed the lowercase version to point to the help page. I think for consistency that they should both point to the same place, probably to the help page since the MOS link is more immediately obvious there than the help link in the MOS. Sam Walton (talk) 09:57, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree, and I wish I knew how to do that. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 10:05, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Redirect#How to edit a redirect or convert it into an article. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:07, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

 Done in this edit.--ukexpat (talk) 15:41, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 18:43, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME in other articles

The article about singer Jung Eun-ji recently had a move discussion (see Talk:Jung Eun-ji) and the outcome was to keep the page at Jung Eun-ji instead of Jeong Eun-ji, since Jung Eun-ji is more common. Should the singer's name be Jung Eun-ji in other articles, such as A Pink and its associated pages? Does WP:COMMONNAME apply to all of Wikipedia or just article titles? --Random86 (talk) 08:35, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Since no one else has replied in about 10 hours, I'll offer my take on the question. I don't think there is a guideline on that, but it would seem sensible to agree with the title name elsewhere, unless there is a compelling reason not to do so. There may be situations where it would be appropriate to refer to Bill Clinton as William Jefferson Clinton, or even William Jefferson Blythe III. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 18:36, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Page incorrectly deleted

Hi,

A page I set up - Crescendo (band) - was recently deleted as it was out of date. I re-edited the site so it was up to date and relevant but it was again deleted as a serchbot found the same material on another site. The other site has infact copied the old page I created so there is no reason my new page should have been deleted as it was me that wrote all the content so if anyone owns the copyright it's me.

Here is the code I wrote, please reinstate it and mark it as original, un-copyright infringed material. Many thanks. Dan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan.akerman82 (talk • contribs) 11:22, 17 November 2014‎ (UTC)}

This isn't the place for the full draft of the article (so I have deleted it), and in any case it can't appear on Wikipedia until you have released the copyright by the process laid out at donating copyrighted material, as was explained to you in crystal clear terms on your user talk page. For that reason it is not true to say that the page was incorrectly deleted. --David Biddulph (talk) 11:35, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I have restore the previous version that was deleted in June as it was deleted by WP:PROD. Dan.akerman82, you can update that article. -- GB fan 11:59, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

@GB fan: It does look very strongly like http://www.factualworld.com/article/Crescendo_%28band%29 was copied from Wikipedia and not the other way, so it seems OK to also restore the recent revisions. The original version of Crescendo (band) was created by User:Newrobotexplorers. Dan.akerman82, are you saying that was you? It wasn't deleted for being out of date but for "Appears to fail WP:GNG and WP:NBAND". PrimeHunter (talk) 12:08, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

You are right, should have checked that before doing the first restore, it is now fully restored. -- GB fan 12:15, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Now at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crescendo (band). GiantSnowman 13:01, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Changing exciting dead links in reference or Footnote?

i fixed few dead links, which i think I'm good on how to track the sources but in the References or Footnote, i only able to add a new link and not to edit the dead link. so my question is how to edit the link it self?

sample of this page i had to add new entries in the footnotes instead of fixing the first 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli_lira&oldid=634209934

Thanks James — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesDonly (talk • contribs) 12:20, 17 November 2014‎ (UTC)

You will find the detail of the references not in the references section, where you will see only the {{reflist}} template, but in the section of text which the reference is being used to support. See WP:Referencing for beginners for an explanation as to how this is done. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I would like to add a photo to a page of someone I represent

I've uploaded photos into Wikipedia Common but how do I get them to be included into a Wikipedia article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoAnn Simon (talk • contribs) 13:04, 17 November 2014‎ (UTC)

At the moment all the files which you uploaded to Commons are at risk of deletion because you did not demonstrate that you own the copyright to them. The article here on English Wikipedia is also at risk, because you have not provided references to published reliable sources independent of the subject to demonstrate that the subject is notable in Wikipedia's terms. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I have removed the content that you added. The primary reason is that you copied text from http://brucewojick.fourfour.com/home and at the bottom it has a copyright symbol with no qualification. We can not accept copyrighted material. The second problem is that the information was written like a promotional piece for Bruce Wojick. -- GB fan 13:40, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

You can write an article about Mr Wojick if you can find published material on him. A quick Google search give me this, which is a one-paragraph description in a pretty unreliable and unnotable place, very much short of being something to base an article on. And the trail goes cold after that. (I may well be missing other material, though.)

I'd let it go, and since you represent Mr Wojick, you might want to represent to him that at this time he does not appear to meet the Wikipedia's standards for notability of individuals.

I'm not disputing that Mr Wojick has fans and I'm confident he's a fine musician who brings pleasure to many. However, that's not enough..-- see WP:BIO etc, or just ask yourself "Would I expect to find an article on my client in the Encyclopedia Britannica, and if not, why would I here?". Another way to put it is: if the Buffalo Evening News has not seen fit to create a full-length feature biographical article on Mr Wojick, why should we?. (The flip side of that is if and when the Evening News does publish such an article, your client will be very much closer to having established sufficient notability for us to host an article about him, and you can use that article to ref most of your material and also to argue for the Wiki-notability of your client.)

As to the pictures, they belong to person who was holding the camera, absent some unusual agreement to the contrary and a demonstration of that. If that wasn't you, you'd have to get the photographer to upload the pics -- good luck with that, as photographers are understandably generally not that eager to donate their work to the public. Herostratus (talk) 14:06, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Timeline

Can somebody fix the timeline so it doesn't have a ".25" after the years? Holographic Sands PacoDaKing14Sportz (talk) 14:52, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I've changed it so that the timeline starts from the beginning of the year, not 3 months through. While doing it I've changed the size so that it doesn't overflow the window (at least on my settings). --David Biddulph (talk) 15:32, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Searching for articles that contain an Unicode character in the title

How can I search for all articles containing the letter ţ în the title? For example Ion Mistreţ should appear in the search results. Sometime ago there this page that could make such searches but it doesn't work anymore: http://toolserver.org/~nikola/grep.php —  Ark25  (talk) 15:03, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

That tool has been moved to labs and can be found here -- John of Reading (talk) 16:34, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I have another question: How can I find all the articles containing Ţ (T-cedilla)? This letter was created by error, it doesn't exist in any language, so it should be replaced almost everywhere with Ț (T-comma). —  Ark25  (talk) 16:30, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Not able to edit a page

I am trying to add text to a small article (Premium tax credit). However, after I enter in my edit and Edit summary, when I press preview the page reverts to the previous edit window. This happened yesterday also, but on the second try I got the page to update properly, however, today the system will not cooperate no matter how many times I try. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:16, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with saving an edit directly. Can someone who is more familiar with the preview function check whether there is a preview problem? Maybe the editors at Village pump (technical) would be able to advise you. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Preview worked for me on that article, simply adding a word to the body text. By "reverts to the previous edit window", are you saying you then see an edit window without your change? ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 20:50, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that is correct, I saw an edit window without my change (this happened several times). Ottawahitech (talk) 01:21, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm stumped. You say it happened several times, were those different edits or different attempts of the same edit? If you could make it happen again, you could stop and come here and describe the precise edit you were trying to make, and someone here could try a preview of that precise edit. It wouldn't have to be a "real" edit, just anything that produces the problem. Also you could experiment with preview on other articles, to see if it's unique to that article. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 07:49, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Ottawahitech - Be advised, you're not losing it. I encountered this error twice while investigating another user's problem with Michael Hill (American football). As you said, it only happens some of the time, and I'm quite sure I didn't do anything different the times it didn't work. I started using preview more a couple of months ago, and I haven't seen the problem until today, so it seems to be a new problem. Someone needs to report this as a bug, but I don't know how to do that. Maybe PrimeHunter could help, he knows everything. ‑‑Mandruss ☎ 19:49, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't have preview problems with the pages mentioned here. Bugs can be reported at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) or bugzilla: but as mentioned at Wikipedia:Bug reports and feature requests, Bugzilla is only two days away from migrating to a new system called Phabricator so this would be a bad time to spend time learning how to use Bugzilla. A bug report like this for a problem which is hard to reproduce should have details like was it a page or section edit, which change was made, which browser, browser version and operating system was used, was wikEd or other editing tools used, does it also happen when logged out. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Bel Canto Summer School

The author removed a PROD tag here. Is the reasoning in the edit summary correct, i.e. if some Notable people run an event in a Notable place, does that make the event itself Notable? I didn't find coverage of the Summer School using the usual searches: Noyster (talk), 17:49, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

@Noyster: Sounds like a case of WP:INHERIT. Notability is not necessarily inherited, as the PROD-remover implies. Notability relies on coverage in independent and reliable sources. In this case, the hosts and involved individuals being notable does not automatically make the school notable. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 18:18, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No. Notability is not inherited. The references all seem to be about the style of singing, not about the Summer School, so I have submitted an AFD. - David Biddulph (talk) 18:21, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

Business Page

Can I create a page or article specifically for my business? AllegraLB (talk) 22:29, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

In a word. No. Wikipedia is not a directory or a free webhost or an advertising platform. Our policy requires presentation from a neutral point of view, something that will be very difficult for you to do because you have an inherent conflict of interest. If your business is truly notable and meets the requirements for having a stand alone article someone else will likely do the creating. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 22:42, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

But thank you for having the courtesy (or at least wisdom) to ask beforehand. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:50, 18 November 2014 (UTC)