Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2017 February 17

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February 17

Apparent issue with Pings

I've noticed recently that sometimes editors will have pinged me on pages that I check frequently and I haven't received a notification for it. Anyone have any explanation or similar experience, or is this just a problem on my end perhaps? I can give a couple diffs if you want specific cases. Pishcal (talk) 00:09, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

This often happens when a thread is not properly signed. Pinging only works if the thread is signed, and signed at the same time. Retroactively adding a sig to a ping request will not work. Meters (talk) 00:13, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, unsigned edits is the most common problem. See mw:Manual:Echo#Technical details for some other possibilities. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:31, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Well, that would explain it. Seems even more unfortunate, then, how frequently I interact with editors without the decency to sign their posts. Thanks. Pishcal (talk) 00:46, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

FYI this has been a confusing problem since the ping system was implemented. Fuhghettaboutit has been working on WP:PINGFIX to try and help explain things for everyone. MarnetteD|Talk 00:54, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: Wow, you noticed that already, I just posted that!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 13:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

You bet I noitced Fuhghettaboutit :-) I think what you are doing with this is important due to the fact that Wikipedia:Notifications is out of date and that is not likely to change. IMO the link to your page should be moved from the "See also" section to the hatnotes at the top of the "Notifications" page so that it will be readily visible to editors trying understand why their pings don't work. Thanks for your work on this! MarnetteD|Talk 15:29, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@MarnetteD: Thanks for the vote of support! Per your note, I'm going to see how to shoehorn a mention of the page into the hatnote or other more prominent position. By the way, {{ping fix}} now exists. Best--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:09, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Greenland ice sheet

Reference help requested. Who checks the math on these pages if you run the number there is no way that the Greenland ice sheet can add 7.2 meter to sea level and the antartica estimate is just as bad I checked the reference articles and they don't show the math just the prediction. Thanks, StephanBorzman (talk) 04:02, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Whatever the source of the original estimate/calculation, your own argument (in the edit history), based on comparative surface areas of the oceans and the ice sheets, is mathematically invalid. You need to take account of the volumes of water/ice involved. The following is my very rough calculation . . . .

• From a google search, the total volume of earth's oceans is 1,347,000,000 cubic kilometers (km³);
• From the Greenland ice sheet article, its total ice volume is 2,850,000km³, but water is denser than ice (hence icebergs floating) by about 10% (salt water being denser than fresh – see Properties of water), so the equivalent of that ice volume if melted would be about 2,565,000km³;
• The Greenland ice sheet's equivalent water volume is therefore approximately 1/525 of the Oceans' volume;
• Now, the average depth of the Oceans is nearly 3,700 meters or 3.7km (see Ocean). Therefore, if the Oceans' volume increases by 1/525 and we assume that their area does not significantly increase (although it will, a little), their average depth will increase by about 1/525 x 3,700 metres = 7.05 metres.

The difference between my 7.05 and the Article's 7.2 is doubtless due to my approximations and my ignoring various minor factors (such as variable water density with depth, temperature and salinity) that the professional physicists, climatologists and oceanographers etc. who calculated the latter took account of. For one thing, the warmer global temperatures needed to melt the ice sheet would mean the Oceans' water would also become warmer, and water expands with temperature.

Bear in mind also, that if the Greenland ice sheet was to be completely melted by higher temperatures, so would an awful lot of other land-based ice around the world. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.203.118.169 (talk) 10:05, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Around 7m is correct. There are various small factors like flooding current low land while some of Greenland would become ocean per File:Topographic map of Greenland bedrock.jpg – at least if rising bedrock without ice pressure is ignored. @StephanBorzman: Your calculation [1] says the oceans are 9.0 trillion acres. I don't know how you got that number but the oceans are only around 3.6×10⁸ km² × 10⁶m²/km² / 4,047 m²/acre ~= 89×10⁹ acres, so your result is off by around a factor 100. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:13, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

• While others address the content of your suggestion, this discussion should have taken place at the article talk page, located at Talk:Greenland ice sheet.

An important point that was hinted to in this edit summary is that claims in Wikipedia rely on reliable sources rather than our own research. If you have good reason to think the math in all available reliable sources is wrong, which is unlikely, try to publish your own in the scientific literature. Once that's done, we can talk about putting it in Wikipedia. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 15:28, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Watchlist

I noticed that on my watchlist page, the "Mark all pages as visited" button is gone. Does anyone know why? APK whisper in my ear 05:43, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

See here for how to fix it. Eagleash (talk) 08:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Fixed now. APK whisper in my ear 08:41, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

very long list in BLP

Hi I've been doing a bit of new pages patrolling and I came across this article Elizabeth Klinck‎, over and above the notability of the subject (I have my doubts) the information included about every single project this person has worked on since 1983 seems excessive and this looks like a peacock article. I can't find any recommendations policies or MOS about the quantity and importance of listed information. Can anyone advise me? Thanks. --Domdeparis (talk) 09:38, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I won't dare to give any advice, but would like to make a note: the page was made by a single author, who does not edit virtually anything except that bio... -CiaPan (talk) 10:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Problem with Firefox?

I edit WP using Firefox. At this point, each time I try to save a page I get the message "Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try saving your changes again. If it still does not work, try logging out and logging back in." Logging out and then back in again doesn't solve the problem. Rebooting the computer doesn't work either. I tried Internet Explorer and there I have no problem. Any suggestions what may cause this? --Randykitty (talk) 14:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@Randykitty: What add-ons do you have on Firefox? They may be screwing up your Wikipedia browsing sessions. —MRD2014 📞 What I've done 20:50, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

MRD2014: weird, I just tried again and everything works fine now, even though I didn't change anything to Firefox... Something mysteriously transient then... Thanks anyway for your time. --Randykitty (talk) 10:00, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

That's weird. I have heard though that Firefox add-ons can sometimes screw up Wikipedia. —MRD2014 📞 What I've done 15:03, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Permanently Saving a Page

Hello!

I am new to Wikipedia editing. I am wondering a few things that I would greatly appreciate answers to.

I am about to create a page in which almost every sentence will have 1 or more citations (from credible sources, not blogs or opinion sites, etc.), so I am not worried about my page being deleted due to lack of credible sources, but I am wondering about saving the original page, in case it is edited or deleted.

1) If I create a new page, before or once it goes live, is there a way of permanently saving an exact copy of the way I originally made it, under my username, so that if it gets edited and an edit is incorrect, I can revert a change, if need be?

2) If I create a new page, before or once it goes live, is there a way of permanently saving an exact copy of it, under my username, so that if it gets deleted and I fix any errors flagged by Wikipedia users, I can un-delete or re-install the page?

3) If there is a way to save an exact copy of a page, once or before it goes live, will it contain any linked citations and references that I add?

On a separate note, I have expertise in a certain area and have noticed that many encyclopedia articles need cleaning up, as they contain more opinion than fact, and some of the articles are slanderous to an institution or a profession. It is to my understanding that Wikipedia is meant to be a factual encyclopedia, not an opinion blog.

1) If I have noticed that an encyclopedia page is more opinion than fact, with citations from sources like blogs or opinion articles and with misquotes or misleading statements from the sources that were cited that I then went and checked and read, and that the encyclopedia page, and, as it currently reads, is slanderous to an institution or profession, how do I flag those encyclopedia topics for cleanup?

2) How do I bring Wikipedia's staff's attention to the articles that are more opinion than fact, that contain misleading statements or quotes from references cited, and/or that are slanderous to an institution or profession, if I clean up those articles and they keep getting reverted?

3) How do I bring Wikipedia's staff's attention to the articles that are more opinion than fact, that contain misleading statements or quotes from references cited, and/or that are slanderous to an institution or profession, if I clean up those articles and they keep getting deleted?

4) How do I bring Wikipedia's staff's attention to the articles that are more opinion than fact, that contain misleading statements or quotes from references cited, and/or that are slanderous to an institution or profession, if those articles are currently locked for editing?

5) What is the most appropriate forum for me to write to Wikipedia staff about an area of the encyclopedia with articles that I am concerned about being opinions instead of facts, causing misrepresentation of that area within the encyclopedia?

Thank you for the help!  :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DoctorGymnast (talk • contribs) 15:17, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, also, how do I sign this page? Thank you, again, for the help!  :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DoctorGymnast (talk • contribs) 15:22, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

• @DoctorGymnast: answering your different points and adding a bit of extra information in no particular order:

1. How to sign your posts is explained at WP:SIGN (blue = it's a link, click on it). You might want to give a read to Wikipedia:Talk page layout.
2. All revisions (i.e. versions) of all pages are saved in the page history of that page. All your edits can be accessed at Special:MyContributions, which for you points to Special:Contributions/DoctorGymnast. The answer to your first series of question is therefore "yes". (If a page gets deleted, it is no longer accessible by most editors and readers, but you can ask for a copy of it - see WP:REFUND.)
3. There is no "Wikipedia staff". The Wikimedia Foundation has a few employees, and they do some Wikipedia edition work, but the overwhelming majority of page edition is performed by volunteers like you and me.
4. In all situations where something is wrong/misleading/etc. you can of course correct it yourself. If you are not sure, you can raise the subject on the talk page; in-text you can add templates are available, such as {{citation needed}}, {{dubious}}, etc. Finally, some particular issues can be raised at various WP:Wikiprojects or WP:Noticeboards.
5. To suggest edits on a page that is locked for edition, use the template {{edit request}} on the talk page of that article.

Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 15:56, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Rollback Vandalism

What does rollback vandalism do?

• @Camdennator11: See WP:ROLLBACK. Essentially, it reverts multiple edits in one go. In the future, please WP:SIGN your post by typing four tildes ("~~~~") at the end of them. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 16:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

hi, any help is appreciated (or suggestion)

I'm a member of wikiproject Medicine, basically this happened to us [2] and so we have a source code but we need someone's help to do 2016 version (of 2015[3]), I can assist in whatever is needed. ...thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 17:56, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@Ozzie10aaaa: To track down this kind of expert, try posting at Wikipedia:Request a query. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

will do, and thanks--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 20:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

• @John of Reading:...no one has answered at the page you suggested?--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 15:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Permissions

At what point do I start recieving permissions privialages whatever you call them?

Camdennator11 (talk) 18:37, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

See WP:RIGHTS. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:45, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

User contributions for IP range?

Searching for the contributions of an IP user are simple enough, but tedious when the user is on a dynamic IP. Is there a simple way for searching the contributions of an IP range? Thanks in advance. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

If I'm correct I thought only checkuser's can check the IP's Range and normal users/editors can use just the "contrib" tab.... PrimeCerberus (talk) 19:32, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

You can also use Special:Contributions and type an IP number, which is essentially the equivalent. I know that CU can do it, but I'm thinking of cases where you might need to see if there's a reason to involve CU in the first place or check contribs for a non-lower-limb-garment-related reason. There are legit reasons for using multiple IP's, after all. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:39, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@Eggishorn: There's a gadget that allows you to do this: in your Gadget preferences, under "Advanced", tick "Allow /16, /24 and /27 – /32 CIDR ranges..." With that turned on, you can enter something like "123.172.64.*" as the IP address and see the contributions for the range. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:47, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@John of Reading: thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for.Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:49, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Stolperstein lists

In deWP Stolperstein lists look like this: [4]. In my draft for enWP the Stolperstein list looks like this: [5]. Unfortunately. I'd rather have the image, the name, the address and the date NOT CENTERED vertically. They should look like the German lists. Could anyone help? Please! And Thanx in advance.--Meister und Margarita (talk) 19:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Somebody has copied the table definition from de.wiki to en.wiki without transferring the CSS, Meister und Margarita. The table has class "toptextcells", which is defined in de.wiki, but not in en.wiki. I don't know which file it is defined in, though. See WP:CSS for more information. --ColinFine (talk) 19:35, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I meant "has a CSS rule associated with it" not "is defined". --ColinFine (talk) 23:39, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Brian Leigh Atkinson born Sept. 15, 1962

Brian was raised in small suburabian home in Kingston, Ontario Canada — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Brian Atkinson (talk • contribs) 23:06, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Well, everybody has to be born and raised somewhere.--Aspro (talk) 23:18, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

What is your question about editing Wikipedia, Dr Atkinson? --ColinFine (talk) 23:29, 17 February 2017 (UTC)