Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2018 August 23

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August 23

Adding a new category?

WP currently has an Age Controversies category "for people for whom there are, or have been disagreements and discrepancies regarding dates of birth and death." Would it be worthwhile to add a category called Birthplace Controversies for biographies of those whose country of birth is/was disputed? e.g. Peter Wyngarde, Merle Oberon, Carlos Gardel, etc. (I don't think such a category currently exists.) --Muzilon (talk) 03:58, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, except don't capitalize "controversies". It would also be worthwhile to create Category:Birthplace or Category:Birthplaces and make your creation a subcategory of that and either Category:Controversies or Category:Historical controversies. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:04, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

P.S. The way to link to categories without adding the page to the category is to add a colon to the beginning, as I have demonstrated. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:06, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I haven't created a Category before, so thought I'd ask here in the hope that a more experienced editor could do it (assuming others agreed it was a good idea in the first place!)--Muzilon (talk) 04:13, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

You should really try it yourself. It's pretty easy. Just type "Category:Birthplace controversies" in the search box. You'll get the message "You may create the page 'Category:Birthplace controversies'". Just click on the redlink. After that, it's almost the same as an article (you have created an article before, right?). You can add categories and an optional sentence or two explaining your inclusion criteria and press the Publish page button. Presto! You've given birth to a brand spanking new category, and it didn't take nine months. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hmmm. I'd change the name of the category to something like "People whose birthplace is disputed", as it will most likely be populated by people rather than controversy articles. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:35, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

I can envisage concerns being raised about "is disputed" vs. "was disputed". For instance, it's now universally accepted that Merle Oberon (deceased) was born in India (not Australia), whereas there is still ongoing debate about BLPs like Amanda Lear.--Muzilon (talk) 04:59, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

"is or was" then. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:01, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Since you are unwilling to proceed, I'll go ahead and create Category:People whose birthplace is disputed. After further consideration, I now feel that "was" should be a separate category. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:00, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: My two cents: I think I see your point, but... How long after the last public voice on topic should we move a corresponding article from the 'is disputed' category to 'was disputed'? If the topic is ever raised again, should we move an article back to the 'is' category? --CiaPan (talk) 07:20, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

That is a difficulty, isn't it? Still, Chester A. Arthur pretty firmly belongs in the "was" column, not in the "is", so I'd hate to lose the distinction. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:38, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

That was one of the reasons I suggested the category name should be Birthplace controversies. As with Age controversies, it avoids the "is/was" problem. Carlos Gardel is another example. It looks like the English-language Wikipedia is solidly on the side of France as his birthplace, whereas the Spanish-language Wikipedia is still giving equal weight to France and Uruguay.--Muzilon (talk) 10:49, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Addenda: predictably, there was an argument when this category was added to Barack Obama. I have started a discussion about renaming the category at CfD.--Muzilon (talk) 03:10, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: I see the consensus was to delete the category altogether. *shrugs*. --Muzilon (talk) 21:17, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

The true origin of Romanian people -the edited article is incomplete How do I make additions ? Q2:The Primary andf Secondary Sources

Dear Sirs the Article Origin Culture etc,of Romanian people is not complete and in some parts wrong how do I make additions or write a new article ? Q.No 2:Primary and Secondary Sources:Is the information from the Original Scrolls and the multitude of bibles translations accepted ?Q.No 3 Is the revelation from Our Creator Holy Spirit which can be proved in real existent fact accepted ? Thank You G A Ferrari// — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gabriel Adrian. Ferrari (talk • contribs) 04:49, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello Gabriel, I've listed the responses to your queries:

1. "how do I make additions?": See Wikipedia:Tutorial/Editing and Wikipedia:FAQ/Editing
2. "how do I...write a new article?": See Wikipedia:Your first article
3. "Is the information from the Original Scrolls and the multitude of bibles translations accepted ?": As any material or article being added to Wikipedia requires to be verified necessarily by reliable sources, the answer to your question depends upon the context in which you'll use the information. On the face of it, the sources you mention seem to be primary, and should be broadly avoided; and if used, then only with absolute discretion. See WP:PRIMARY for more details.
4. "Is the revelation from Our Creator Holy Spirit which can be proved in real existent fact accepted ?": Well, this seems like original research, which Wikipedia articles and material should not be based upon. See Wikipedia:No original research for more information on this.

If you have further queries, feel free to ask here. Warmly, Lourdes 05:27, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Autoconfirmed, yet not?

I replaced a category in John Cabot, but got this request to "Re-review this revision". Bug? Clarityfiend (talk) 06:45, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Maybe because you're a pc reviewer and the page is under pc protection, that you were suggested to review the revision. Otherwise, I don't know but the software didn't ask me to review the revision when I added the same change; I am not a reviewer. This is just a blind guess; someone else may have a better answer. Warmly, Lourdes 13:58, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Problems editing table

I want to edit the list of Jean Sibelius' compositions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_compositions_by_Jean_Sibelius) by adding works that are missing. I want to use Live Editor, as I find source editing too complicated. But it seems I'm doing something wrong - I select the top row, click on the left arrow and then I select 'Insert below'. After inserting the information into the table, everything looks fine when I preview, but after publishing my changes, the table is somehow re-formatted so that the line below the one I just added is merged with that line. What am I doing wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eliasnoreland (talk • contribs) 11:17, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

It's not a table, it's a collection of templates inside a containing template. Each row is a separate entry of the {{Classical composition row}} template. Each new entry requires a new template to be inserted. If you look at the code, what is actually happening will be clearer than my explanation. - X201 (talk) 11:28, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

@Eliasnoreland: The above means List of compositions by Jean Sibelius#List of compositions is not suited for VisualEditor. You can use the source editor and follow the existing format. If you want to insert a new row then I suggest to start by copying the template code which generates one of the existing rows. Then you can just change the parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:51, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Citation bot

Is there a way of knowing who is running the bot for a particular edit? Hope all is well refdeskers. —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 13:56, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hey Serial, how are you doing? I'm not quite clear about your query. If you know the name of the bot, and if the bot main page does not have enough information about its master, then you can visit Category:Approved Wikipedia bot requests for approval and search out the bot's original approval page for more information. Is this what you were looking for? Best, Lourdes 14:05, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Yo Lourdes, sup? Thing is: it's a user  :) User:Citation bot, "whom" any editor can activate and run. See contribs (although not may people seem to own up to running it!) —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 14:15, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

• ​Let's request Smith609 for inputs. Lourdes 12:02, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

• Users can specify their username when they run the bot, which will then appear in the edit summary. (This feature was re-enabled this week; it will be lacking from older edit summaries.) Shy users can choose not to do so (in which case it will display "activated by a user") or to specify someone else's username (though the bot does check that the username is a valid user before re-printing it). Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 13:24, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks Martin While I love your reference to "shy users" :D ... I wanted to ask whether it was possible to do away with the choice to avoid inputting one's user name or in fact placing someone else's name. As much as I appreciate the option, I would hope we would get to know who activated the bot for any edit, given the general philosophy of transparency on Wikipedia. Do you think this could be pragmatically achieved? Thanks, Lourdes 17:38, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm not aware of an API that allows third parties to obtain and validate a user's Wikipedia credentials. If you have a specific proposal for how this might achieved, then we can look into how it might be implemented in the context of the bot. Martin (Smith609 – Talk) 07:19, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Aside of https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?format=json&action=query&meta=userinfo , can you not use an OAuth-authorized request to Special:OAuth/identify? I guess that should return the username as a signed JSON token. Lourdes 09:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

(Courtesy ping to Martin. Lourdes 09:36, 26 August 2018 (UTC))

A couple of the move to commons scripts do that, so the user's username ends up as the uploader on commons. See Wikipedia:Move_to_commons#Tools for those that use OAuth. Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 12:50, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

• @Lourdes: So, have we discovered a way for editors to edit truly anonymously on Wikipedia? —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 09:32, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

An addage to Wikipedia's Howard University graduate alumni notables

Noble Lee Lester, graduated from HU drama college, 1979. Noble is a multiple-time award-winner for best actor, best director, best teacher, adjunct professor and a Harlem's NYC AUDELCO recipient for "Outstanding Performer in a Musical." Noble has appeared in a number of films and soap operas. Noble has appeared in "On the road" Broadway shows like "Fences," "Mama, I want to sing," "Good Black, don't crack" with Woodie King, etc. Noble directed the original Public Theatre production of, "Jonin'." Noble has appeared on stage and film with greats like Adolf Caesar, Roscoe Orman, Morgan Freeman, Avery Brooks, Mary Alice, Carol Mallard, Kene Holiday, Louis Johnson, Tony Award Winner: Bea Winde, Ken Foree, etc. Noble is a songwriter, singer, and musician. He is an Amazon published playwright and novelist; "The Bouquet Race," and currently a manager/director of Historical Tours of America award-winning historical ghost tours in St. Augustine, Florida.

Howard University has launched a number of the finest trained performing artist in the world. I am happy to have been a tiny part of their reach for excellence.

Thank you kindly, Noble — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:21e0:c830:b18b:f726:8431:82a6 (talk • contribs)

Hello Noble. Such lists are usually confined to subjects who are "notable" in the special sense used by Wikipedia, which means there either is already, or plausibly could be, a free-standing Wikipedia article about them.

In this (your) case, Noble, this means that an actual or potential article would have to meet the requirements of Wikipedia:ENTERTAINER, and be based on multiple extended decriptions of you published in Reliable sources such as (though not limited to) academic or professional journals, or reputable magazines or newspapers. Mere inclusions in cast lists, or passing mentions in reviews, for example, are insufficient to confirm "notability" even though they may be sufficient to corroborate specific facts. Every single fact mentioned needs to be referenced by an in-line citation to a reliable source.

I myself am not sufficiently expert in this field to judge whether or not you are likely to be "notable" in this sense, and since, like all Wikipedia editors, I am a spare-time volunteer working only on what I choose, I'm not going to undertake an attempt at an article about you, but with any luck someone else will be interested in doing so.

Please note, however, that you yourself (or anyone directly associated with you), should not do so, because of our policies explained in Wikipedia:Autobiography, Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:Paid. Such an article would also have to adhere to Wikipedia:NPOV, avoid any hint of promotional or subjective description (except in direct quotes) as per Wikipedia:Promo, could contain anything reported in reliable sources that might not be to your credit, and would in no way be under your control. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.121.162.183 (talk) 05:21, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Following up on a page I created

I created a page for DexYP and it was rejected twice. I made the requested changes to the page and resubmitted it on June 28 and it hasn't been reject, but it also hasn't gone live. I am trying to check the status. Here's the url https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:DexYP — Preceding unsigned comment added by James00011 (talk • contribs) 16:50, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Draft:DexYP is once more in the queue for review. If it is still in its current state when it gets reviewed, it will certainly be rejected. Some faults are:

• It uses ™ and ® symbols, against Wikipedia policy.
• It contains many direct external links. These are not permitted in the body of Wikipedia articles.
• It cites no references. Several references to reliable independent published sources which discuss the company will be needed, to establish that it is notable. This is the most serious problem, and may be the hardest to address. I recommend that you read Help:Referencing for beginners.
• The section headers are not correctly formatted. Ok, I've fixed that for you. Maproom (talk) 17:58, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello, James0001. Unfortunately you have made the classic beginner's mistake of writing from what you know. Wikipedia does not care what you know (or what I know, or what any random person on the Internet knows). It only cares what reliable sources, mostly ones independent of the subject, have said about the subject. Which independent reliable published source says that "[i]n the 2000s, the company began offering digital search marketing services"? If there is one, cite it. If there isn't one, remove the claim. Which independent reliable published source has descrbied Thryv as the company's "flagship" offering? No Wikipedia article should ever use such evaluative language in Wikipedia's voice, but only when quoting a reliable published source.

Does this help to see why the draft has twice been declined as "reads like an advertisement"? --ColinFine (talk) 21:06, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

James0001 If you have a conflict of interest you must declare it. If you work directly or indirectly for an organisation, or otherwise are acting on its behalf, you are very strongly discouraged from attempting to write an article at all. If you are paid directly or indirectly by the organisation you are writing about, you are required by the Wikimedia Terms of Use to disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a mandatory disclosure to your user page at User:James0001. The template {{Paid}} can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form: {{paid|user=James0001|employer=InsertName|client=InsertName}}. Also you must read independent verifiable sources and notability guidelines for organisations and companies Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:51, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Dex Media (DexYP before it was DexYP) is already on the site. We should rename it, and add the recent history to that article. I'll take a look and see what I can do. In the future, if you have a COI - put in an edit request on the talk page. Here's info on how to do that: Wikipedia:Edit requests. BTW - there's also a Dex One and Dex Media (Dex One). It's going to take some merging and sorting to fix this, but we don't need another article. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:25, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Once you've made your mandatory disclosures of conflict of interest, make any suggestions for improvements to the article at Talk:DexYP. --Orange Mike | Talk 22:55, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Zaandijk

Hello,

On the page Zaandijk, why are the population density and area not mentioned in the infobox although the information is there? Thanks.

62.119.166.9 (talk) 16:56, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Because the parameters being used didn't match those in the template. Fixed now. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:10, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Lynyrd Skynyrd Current Band Members

When you click onto the link for bassist Keith Christopher, it takes you to a link about an actor Keith Christopher, who died in 1998. That is NOT the same Keith Christopher as the current bass guitarist for Lynyrd Skynyd, who joined the band last year (2017).

You may want to correct this.

Thank you,

Scott — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scott Brandenburg (talk • contribs) 21:47, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

In the article Lynyrd Skynyrd, there is a section Current members, So I assumed you were talking about that location but apparently not.

Eventually, I tracked down that you meant List of Lynyrd Skynyrd members. I fixed it.--S Philbrick(Talk) 00:15, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Editing problem

Hi, I'm from trwiki and Turkey. We can't acces wikipedia as you know for this reason I use VPN and I have the authority Global IP block exemptions but I can't editing on enwiki is there anyone who can solve this problem? --By erdo can • msg 23:22, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

By erdo can, I'm not sure why you cannot edit if you have the block exemption but Wp:VPT is a better place to ask this question. If I might state the obvious, you are editing enwiki.S Philbrick(Talk) 00:07, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

• By erdo can, apart from what S Philbrick says, you need to get ipblock exempt status on the English Wikipedia separately for your VPN to work here (because despite your global ipblock exempt status, the English Wikipedia can still block – and would have effectively – your VPN addresses). I know this is a Catch 22 situation (how can you apply for ip block exempt status on the English Wikipedia if you can't edit here?), but that's the conclusion that was reached the last time another poster from another country that had blocked Wikipedia came here. Lourdes 11:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

• Sphilbrick, how are you doing? While I also was wondering about the editor editing the English Wikipedia, I realized that it's quite possible that the editor might have moved out of Turkey temporarily and may have obtained access to editing Wikipedia. Anyway, hope all is fine with you. Warmly, Lourdes 11:59, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm doing well, thanks for asking. Sounds like you have a good answer. Color me surprised that global block exempt is trumped by en block? Odd.--S Philbrick(Talk) 12:43, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

It's an unfortunately ambiguous name - it's not a global exemption, but an exemption from global blocks (and Tor blocks which are usually global), and Lourdes is right that we'll probably have locally blocked the IPs. Anyway, due to the particular circumstances, this user now has a local IPBE. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 13:06, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

missing article and deletion log

Hi I was looking for our think tanks founder Pakistani Canadian actor and political strategists Azmi Haq's wiki page. His Wikipedia page has gone missing and I have also not been able to locate it in the deletion logs. When I click on the Azmi Haq link through the Salon Camden wiki page it states that the article I am looking for does not exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_Camden Should I create a brand new page or is there a way to revive it?

Thank you for your help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saloncamden (talk • contribs) 23:45, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

@Saloncamden: If you click on the link you refer to, you will find a link to a deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Azmi Haq. Your username indicates you have a connection to the subject. Please read WP:ORGNAME and WP:UNC and request a change of username ASAP or you might be blocked from editing. Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~). Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 03:22, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

@Saloncamden:, account soft-blocked as a user name violation. Since you have not misused the account, you can just request a compliant user name, but note that your conflict of interest means that you should not edit or create these articles yourself. I'll make Azmi Haq a redirect to the organisation Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:41, 24 August 2018 (UTC)