Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2019 July 29

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July 29

Ali Kadhim Hadi

Hi You have written a new article professionally. All information, documents and references were added. But so far I did not appear in the research knowing that I have many articles written in the Arabic Wikipedia ask for helpask for help— Preceding unsigned comment added by Akram.altameemi (talk • contribs) 29 July 2019 00:34 (UTC)

Draft:Ali Kadhim Hadi will not be indexed by Google until it is reviewed and moved into mainspace. Please read the note at the end of the article about the backlog in the review process. -Arch dude (talk) 00:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

You have not submitted Draft:Murtaja Adel Nasser for review yet. Please add {{subst:submit}} to the TOP of your draft article to submit it. It will then be added to the pile of articles for review. -Arch dude (talk) 01:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

@Akram.altameemi: Despite the above, the page was submitted with this edit at 00:41 (UTC). Please place the references inline at the point in the text to which they refer and complete the infobox parameters for years and appearances. It would be a significant improvement if the various sections could have rather more detail. Please see any of the football articles on the English Wikipedia for more ideas. See Category:English Football League players for a list of articles which may help. Your article doesn't have to be as fully detailed as many of those will be, but needs more than it has at the moment. Eagleash (talk) 01:31, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

@Eagleash: I think there are two separate drafts, one submitted, one not.-Arch dude (talk) 02:12, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Ah... wait a minute I was looking at Draft:Ali Kadhim Hadi which has been submitted for review and was the heading added by the OP. Eagleash (talk) 02:17, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

@Akram.altameemi: While your English is a great deal better than my non-existent Arabic, I think your articles might benefit from some copy-editing from an interested editor. Perhaps you can ask at the talk page of a related project such as Wikipedia:WikiProject Football. -Arch dude (talk) 02:12, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Lupton family

Please fix up - I have put in a citation which is actually from a journal. Please leave in page numbers. Thanks Srbernadette (talk) 01:27, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

There's no ref errors showing in respect of the recently added ref in the Charles Lupton section but I did remove the date from the publisher parameter (no change there then). Eagleash (talk) 01:39, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

I have added a file of Francis Lupton - it is too big, can you make it smaller please. Also, can you remove the died 1884 bit which is under his photo. Thanks Srbernadette (talk) 01:48, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

It is pretty much the same size as the adjacent image and is already 'thumbed'. To make it smaller would look out of place. I have removed the caption wording. Eagleash (talk) 02:09, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Yet again the person who inserted the material which you wanted removed was YOU!. Why do you think that it is reasonable to keep cluttering up the help desk by asking other people to correct your mistakes? What is it that makes it difficult for you to use the "Undo" function? Please also see #List of alumni of Trinity College, Cambridge above. As you have been asked previously, if you don't understand what you are told in English, in what language ought we to answer you? --David Biddulph (talk) 04:00, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Would like to open a page for company information named as "OKAY.com"

Hi, I would like to open a page for company information named as "OKAY.com", here is the official website and some ref link. https://www.okay.com/

https://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-china/article/1528192/okay-goes-online-fight-cooling-property-market-hong-kong

http://www.arounddb.com/around-db-articles/infocus/still-one-future-real-estate-discovery-bay/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by OkayPerson (talk • contribs) 29 July 2019 06:35 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not open pages for companies, but if the company is notable in the Wikipedia sense, then you may request an article about the company at WP:Requested articles. It will help if you can provide independent WP:Reliable sources in which the company has been written about at length (the ones you give above are a start but I'm not sure they are independent). If you have some connection with the company, then it would be better if you do not write the article yourself. See WP:COI and WP:PAID for guidance. There is a possible problem with your user name since it seems to imply that you could be anyone at the company. Wikipedia allows only individual accounts such as "name at Okay". Accounts cannot be used by more than one employee. Dbfirs 11:19, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

• Note: OP blocked as of 06:46 (UTC) for username vio. Eagleash (talk) 11:39, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello, OkayPerson. "Going online to fight the cooling [HK] property market" should not involve trying to get an encyclopedia article written about your company, as Wikipedia is not an appropriate venue for online marketing campaigns.See WP:Promotion. --Quisqualis (talk) 15:33, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Editing the list of IEB schools in South Africa

To whom it may concern,

In the wikipedia post of IEB schools/private schools in Gauteng, St Martin's School in Rosettenville is omitted from the list although the content of the post has information on our school, we do not appear on the list - we should appear between St Mary's Waverley and St Peter's College.

How do I edit this list and ensure that it links to our website?

Kind regards Gillian O'Shaughnessy Head of marketing St Martin's School — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.77.29.57 (talk) 08:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello, there is a Wikipedia article at St. Martin's School (Rosettenville). I cannot find an article listing out all the schools. However there is a template here (this is used at the bottom of articles for navigational purposes) which includes St. Martin's in its correct alphabetical position before two schools named St Mary's. Please don't attempt to edit articles with which you have a connection, Please see WP:COI and WP:PAID. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 09:39, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

The OP may have been thinking of Independent Examinations Board#Schools that write IEB exams? David Biddulph (talk) 09:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Murtaja Adel Nasser

I have written an article entitled Murtaja Adel Nasser but so far I do not know how to add it to the review. Note I did not show my list of additions to the review. Do I have the right to write the article again and enter it in the review or I can insert the same article into the review? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akram.altameemi (talk • contribs) 10:02, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

You have produced a draft, but not yet submitted it for AFC review. Before you do submit it for review, you ought to provide English translations of the relevant parts of the foreign-language references. --David Biddulph (talk) 10:19, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Similar advice also applies here as in the similar section above. Eagleash (talk) 10:48, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

A3 when deleting move redirects?

Hi,

I was looking to delete a redirect in place after a legitimate move of a page. The restaurant no longer exists and was under different ownership to the current lodge ownership. It actually seems a counterproductive redirect.

Would an A3 be legitimate in this circumstance, or do I need to PROD it, or is there another variant? Nosebagbear (talk) 10:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

@Nosebagbear: You can see the guidelines for deleting a redirect here: WP:RFD. If you think this redirect is a fit for deletion, you can list it on that page for discussion. RudolfRed (talk) 19:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

A3 is for articles and not redirects, so no, please don't tag it with this criterion. R3 also doesn't apply, as it specifically excludes titles created by reason of a pagemove. Nyttend (talk) 23:08, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Question regarding copyright of web pages

I rolled back edits on Orlando Symphony Orchestra by TreeofAvalon because they were copied from the orchestra's website (~98% on Earwig). After reverting TreeofAvalon's additions, I took a closer look at the orchestra website and couldn't find a copyright notice anywhere. I'd like to be sure on this - does lack of a copyright statement change the use of this material or do we assume that web pages are under copyright unless specifically stated as public domain? Leschnei (talk) 13:19, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, content on web pages is assumed to be copyrighted unless explicitly stated otherwise. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources#Can I copy text to Wikipedia that I got from somewhere else? – Teratix ₵ 13:26, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

The orchestra's website is [1], yes? It has a tiny, hard-to-read copyright notice at the bottom of all its pages, in dark grey on a black background. Frustrating, but the text is completely promotional anyway. – Teratix ₵ 13:33, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah! - when I increase the brightness I can see it! Thanks for clearing up the copyright question. Leschnei (talk) 13:49, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Just a note Tera, but copyright notices are not really "a thing" for our purposes anymore, unless you're talking about things that were first published prior to the internet age, and then things get really complicated. For newer works, every creative work is copyrighted in the course of its creation, and being released under a free license does not eliminate the copyright in most circumstances, but simply defines the criteria under which the copyright holder allows their content to be used. The only things that are truly not copyrighted are 1) things not eligible for copyright, and 2) things where the copyright has expired. Even CC0 licenses and "public domain dedications" are not necessarily the same thing as bona fide public domain in every jurisdiction, although for our purposes they're most often close enough that we don't have to fret over it. GMG^talk 14:00, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Wrong message by Wiki

Hi,

"According to scholars, Indian forces have committed many human rights abuses and acts of terror against Kashmiri civilian population including extrajudicial killing, rape, torture and enforced disappearances.[18][30][31] According to Amnesty International, no member of the Indian military deployed in Jammu and Kashmir has been tried for human rights violations in a civilian court as of June 2015, although there have been military court martials held.[32] Amnesty International has also accused the Indian government of refusing to prosecute perpetrators of abuses in the region.[33]"

Content of this paragraph is entirely wrong ,there is no human right violation in Kashmir,Indian soldiers are known for there commitment to respects the human right.The person who wrote this statement does not have any idea about India and Kashmir.I doubt really an educated person written this.

Please remove this paragraph as not a single word is right here and misleading the people.

Regards,

Debendra. Odisha,

India. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.41.223.113 (talk) 14:18, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure which article you are talking about, but unfortunately, Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources state about article subjects, whether it is good or bad. Wikipedia makes no judgement or opinion as to the accuracy of what those sources state, and provides those sources so readers can review and judge the information for themselves. If you disagree with Amnesty International's assessment of the Indian military in Kashmir, you will need to take it up with them. You can bring your concerns to the article talk page, but as long as the information is cited to an independent reliable source, it is not going to be removed just because it portrays the Indian military negatively. 331dot (talk) 14:21, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

We do not delete material that can be verified (WP:V) by references to reliable sources (WP:RS). We can, however, add material about any statements made by the government or military contesting this material if that material can be referenced to reliable sources. Take this to the article's talk page. Be sure to provide references. -Arch dude (talk)

(Article is Kashmir conflict) Naraht (talk) 16:31, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Frequent-flyer program

I need help to insert a reference or not.

The passage I am editing is about the history of airline frequent flyer programs. As it turned out in 1977 I was the Senior Director Passenger Pricing at American Airlines, and it was my idea that resulted in the American AAdvantage frequent flyer program which was subsequently launched in 1981.

The genesis of airline mileage took place at a pizza slice lunch on E40th St. NYC between myself and the CEO of American, Robert L. Crandall. I was asked by him how American could withstand new competition from upstart Laker Airways who offered much lower prices. I thought briefly and suggested that American could use the inventory of empty seats that were rarely sold (about 1/3 at that time) to offer free flights to its most frequent customers who would accumulate points based on paid-for travel and turn them in for free tickets. I was asked the question, "what if other airlines do the same?" and replied that American would have an advantage because it flew to the Caribbean and Hawaii which its competitors did not, and therefore American points would be more valuable than competitors.

Following this lunch the American team was told to work on this and the name AAdvantage was an obvious choice. It took years to develop and work out the details order to launch the AAdvantage frequent flyer program partly due to American's move from a NYC HQ to Dallas-Fort Worth. However, American was the first to offer an airline mileage program which was quickly followed by every major airline and became the world's largest and most successful loyalty program.

Please advise how I create a reference to this? It was so long ago that I do not have the date of this lunch or any documentation other than a very clear memory.

16:03, 29 July 2019 (UTC)Lmfertig (talk)

Lmfertig Wikipedia requires all information to be cited to a published reliable source so readers can verify it if desired. Because of this, no user's word is sufficient for information. If the information is not in a published source, it cannot be on Wikipedia. We also have no way to know you are who you say you are(though I stress I believe you). 331dot (talk) 16:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

LmfertigWikipedia's policies seem strange, but we need them because we do not have the (expensive) inftrastructure needed to verify sources and their statements. Those functions are provided by news agencies and other reliable sources. (WP:RS), which are secondary sources, not primary sources. This is why we do not consider Wikipedia to be a reliable secondary source, and why we cannot use a Wikipedia article as a source for another Wikipedia article. If a journalist or author were to write about the history of frequent flyer miles and interview you, we could then reference that source. I often think that we need some mechanism to capture this sort of personal story and figure out how to authenticate it, perhaps as a separate WMF project, but we do not have it today. -Arch dude (talk) 16:50, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Finding out username and password

Hi I am trying to figure out my username and Password for my Wikipedia page "Celestino" best, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestino

Usernames and passwords have nothing to do with articles. If you signed up with a email address you can get your username and a password reset here: Special:PasswordReset - FlightTime (open channel) 16:43, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

It's not your page. It's a Wikipedia article about a company, and you have no more control over its contents than any other editor. In fact, you have less: you should not modify it directly (see WP:COI). We welcome your suggestions for improvement of the article. Please place them on the article's talk page. You can find a list of all the edits to the article (including its initial creation) by hitting its "view history" tab. If you edited it in the past that may help you remember your user name. If you did not edit it, then just create a new account, but please adhere to the WP:COI and WP:PAID policies. -Arch dude (talk) 17:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Help Please! (Copyright)

My martial arts teacher wrote the entirety of the article at this link: http://www.ycgf.org/WPS_Eulogy/WPS_Eulogy.html

He has asked me to post it on Wikipedia. When I did so, first by inserting it into the biography of the subject person (my teacher's teacher), it was taken down due to copyright. My teacher _owns_ the copyright, and I am the designated distributor of the material, because I stepped up to put it into the Wiki page. So then I attempted to create a new page with a different name from the one that comes up for Wang Peisheng, only again to be reminded by a "bot" that there could be copyright issues with the material. I have found no FAQ or other reference to help me. I would very much like specific guidance from someone at Wikipedia to tell me how I may post this material either as part of an existing page or on my own. Thank you.

Sincerely, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pcapell (talk • contribs)

Hey Pcapell. It is not sufficient that the copyright holder give you permission to post the content on Wikipedia. Content on Wikipedia is published under a particular legal license, and the copyright holder would need to explicitly release the content under this or another compatible license.

Regardless, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and because of that, writing styles that are appropriate for other venues are most often not appropriate for a 1-to-1 transcription here, even if the content is properly licensed. For example, "Master Wang’s passing marked the end of an era" or "Master Wang was truly a great master " may be appropriate language in an obituary written by a student, but it is not an appropriate tone for an encyclopedia article. Beyond that, because this appears to be merely posted on a website that is closely affiliated with the subject, we should generally not consider this to be a highly reliable source. This generally requires publication in an established outlet with a history of fact checking and editorial oversight. GMG^talk 17:44, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

• Hi, welcome to Wikipedia and thanks for asking.

Two things spring to mind:

Firstly, this isn't a memorial site and we don't do eulogies. We're an encyclopedia. So we do cover biographies, and your teacher's eulogy could very well form part of the sourcing for that, but it's not appropriate for pasting in directly. It's very long, for one thing, and simply the writing style for a eulogy just isn't the same as for an encyclopedia. In particular, eulogies tend to have a time to them (the death is recent, or at least seen as being a new event to the audience), whereas an encyclopedia would endeavour to be timeless.

Secondly, the simplest way round the copyright issue would be for your teacher to release the whole text of that eulogy under a free licence. Wikipedia would then be free to re-use any or all of it. Now, that might seem like something that they want to do anyway, or it might not. But WP is itself under a free licence (you can re-use any content generated for Wikipedia), so if you add content to Wikipedia, you then licence that content onwards for others. In short: there is no, "Release this for use on WP, but only on WP". Just can't do it. Investigate Creative commons and their licensing for ways to do this sort of thing (other licences are available). If your teacher's website (or this one page on it) clearly displays such a licence, then the copyright patrols on WP will back off from the warnings you've had. (Happy to discuss this further, but must rush away for the moment) Andy Dingley (talk) 17:44, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Removing Templates

How can 2 template shields be removed from my entry? I sent new information (Marquis Award) for my entry in January 2019 but didn't hear anything until a volunteer in February said anyone could edit entries. When I did, the shields went up. I did get an e-mail saying the volunteer shouldn't have suggested doing it myself but the shields remain. If the Marquis Award isn't one considered OK, please remove. With thanks! Carol Smallwood (talk) 20:35, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Courtesty link to article Carol Smallwood. @Carol Smallwood: One template has been properly removed; primary sources still needed to remove other template. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:51, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Presumably, you meant to say non-primary sources needed. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 16:29, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Changing to correct information

The auto system that prevents the up to date information from being show requires to be disabled as the current information is several years out of date — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.184.44 (talk) 21:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Please clarify what system you are referring to, and which article this is for. You discuss proposed changes to an article on that article's talk page. RudolfRed (talk) 21:51, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

This may be about Ayotte_Drums which appears to be subject to an edit war. Do not engage in an edit war and discuss on the article's talk page to get consensus. RudolfRed (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

The reversions were not an auto system, but real editors reverting unsourced claims about the demise of the company. Last time there was discussion of this, their website reappeared and is still live, and the domain name is registered for another two years. I haven't tried the contacts. Perhaps someone in Canada can find further information or, even better, a WP:Reliable source? Dbfirs 07:01, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

HotCat with Timeless skin

HotCat does not appear to work with the timeless skin activated. Is there any way to fix this? --Puzzledvegetable^{Is it teatime already?} 23:07, 29 July 2019 (UTC)