Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 May 25

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May 25

data-sort-value=top?

I vaguely remember seeing something similar to a data-sort-value=top markup somewhere to keep the 1st line of a table at the top regardless of sorting. It's needed here. What was it again? I couldn't find it anywhere on Help, WP or Talk, or insource. Cheers. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 01:49, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Guarapiranga, Does this help? Help:Sorting#Excluding_top_rows_from_sorting S Philbrick(Talk) 13:22, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Right! Thanks, Sphilbrick. — 𝐆𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐚 (talk) 13:29, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Trying to start a page for an athlete

I am trying to get a name verified - why isn't the name able to show up ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by KentuckyGolf (talk • contribs)

Because it's on your user talk page, not in a draft, and Wikipedia does not do verification. (Twitter and Facebook need to drop Wikipedia articles as an option for verification.) —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 02:45, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Automated tools

Hi, I've been experimenting with Redwarn and Twinkle (sp.?) but I feel like I probably jumped into them a bit soon. If someone has two minutes, could you please have a quick look my edit history to see if I've been using them correctly? Probably the biggest hurdle I've faced is knowing when/what message to leave on people's talk page. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell whether someone is being a troll or is genuinely trying to help. Any feedback would be awesome so I can improve. I love the tools but I don't like to screw up. :) Abillionradios (talk) 02:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Abillionradios, from a brief look, you look like you're using it correctly, but reading the pages (WP:TWINKLE, WP:REDWARN) is a helpful starter. Also, try WP:CVUA to get a better grasp of these tools. Salutations, Heart ^(talk) 02:49, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

HeartGlow30797, thanks so much! :) Abillionradios (talk) 04:27, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

How can I change my wikipedia language to Indian English

I am from India. I use wikipedia for various reasons anywhere from learning new things to using it for work. But I was frustrated that there is no Indian English option to choose from languages. Even in the languages, all the Indian languages are given except Indian English. Moreover, my main concern is that all the articles follow the international numbering system which is hard to understand for us Indians especially when we use the Indian numbering system as our numbering system. I also found out that the Indian numbering system is followed in all Indian languages. So it would be nice to have English(India) as a language with the Indian numbering system in it.

Unfortunately, this would not be a simple or easy matter. The various language versions you see are not automatic translations from one "master" text, they are all part of different Wikipedias in those languages, and all these Wikipedias are completely independent projects, each with as much standing as this English Language Wikipedia we are conversing on.

The non-English language Wikipedias' articles have either been been written "from scratch" in those languages, or sometimes began as direct translations from an article in a different language (not necessarily English), but these translations were done on an individual basis by one or more editors who chose to do so. Equally, some articles in the English Wikipedia began as translations from a previously existing article on another language Wikipedia. Note that Wikipedia does not endorse using automatic translation programmes, because they are simply not accurate enough.

This means that two articles on the same subject in different languages are almost never direct equivalents, and even if one began as a translation from the other, they will steadily diverge as they are further improved in each of those languages. This also explains why different language Wikipedias have very different numbers of articles.

There are, as you observe, different varieties of English, including British English, American English, Indian English, Australian English, and so on: however there is (as far as I know) only one English language Wikipedia. The general rule is to write a particular article in (and only in) the variety of English that is relevant to the subject, so that for example the article on George Washington should be written in American English and the one on George III in British English: where no particular English variety applies to the subject, one should stick with the variety used by the editor who first created the article: this is explained in more detail at WP:ENGVAR. Note that articles about subjects falling under the umbrella of The Commonwealth of Nations, including India, are intended to be written in the pan-national variety "Commonwealth English", which is close to British English.

There may be some option for users logged into their Wikipedia account (which I don't have, so I don't know) to have numerals automatically rendered into a different system, or it may be possible for one to be created, but this is far outside of my own expertise. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.27.217 (talk) 08:48, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

There is also Simple English WP. And, slightly off topic, Scots WP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:s way of thinking, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English, "Indian English" does not qualify for a separate language WP, but is to be considered in India-related articles. Some articles, like List of highest-grossing Indian films use both numbering systems, but you will not see that in articles like, say List of Africans by net worth. If there is some on-WP gadget that lets you chose your prefered numbering, I don't know it. Perhaps there is an off-WP one? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:31, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

The Indian numbering system is just one of several, another of which is standard in the part of the world where I happen to live. (It's described in Japanese over there; I'm surprised not to find it described in English here. Meanwhile, a simple introduction.) Mentally switching between two systems can be confusing, but perhaps it's a good little exercise for one's lazy mind. -- Hoary (talk) 09:15, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

For more exercise, go to Denmark. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:28, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

It's at Japanese numerals here. —Cryptic 16:35, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

topic about late mr Vishwanath Krishna Shrotriya

I want to add one more topic about late mr Vishwanath Krishna Shrotriya ,school teacher and head master and a writer in Marathi . Please guide me how to start the process. thanks v p Vpmwiki16 (talk) 08:01, 25 May 2021 (UTC)mahajan

Hello Vpmwiki16, and welcome to Wikipedia. Start with reading WP:BASIC. If you conclude "Yeah, I have those sources, no problem" then move on to WP:TUTORIAL and WP:Your first article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:12, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia notifications

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this - I am getting notifications for the last couple of days that user Zakari Brainbox mentioned me on xx talk page when in fact they had mentioned a completely different user (user Timtrent on both occasions on different talk pages) in the diff, I checked and they had not edited my name out so it seems some kind of bug in the notifications system? JW 1961 ^Talk 08:29, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Joseywales1961, that is weird. If you don't get any good replies here, you can try Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Not a bug in the notification system. User:Zakari Brainbox was transcluding User:Timtrent rather than linking to it. See User talk:Zakari Brainbox#Please stop doing this. - David Biddulph (talk) 09:11, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

David Biddulph, That explains it so, thanks JW 1961 ^Talk 09:21, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Oromia Region

 Courtesy link: Oromia region

I'm not agreed with the title changed to Oromia region because of it is not indicating particular place name. I discussed and asserted with sources for my suggestion and immediately moved to Oromia region. Instead they could use Oromia as proper name than Oromia region. The Supermind (talk) 10:02, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

The Supermind, Wikipedia:Requested moves suggests talking to the move closer about your concerns. The closer should have followed Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Determining consensus. If you still don't agree, a Wikipedia:Move review can be held. TSventon (talk) 11:26, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Start a new page

Hi

I need assistance in starting my wikipedia page please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AsianStarRadio (talk • contribs)

AsianStarRadio Wikipedia is not a collection of "pages", it is an encyclopedia with articles. Please see your user talk page for important information about your username, which you will need to change. If you want to write about Asian Star Radio, please review conflict of interest and paid editing for information on required formal disclosures. Wikipedia summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about a company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Wikipedia is not interested in what a company wants to say about itself, only in what others say about it. Successfully writing a new article is hard under normal circustances- it's even harder with a conflict of interest. 331dot (talk) 12:44, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for stopping by @AsianStarRadio:. Wikipedia has a help page titled Help:Your first article; you should read that page for some guidance. Also, and this cannot be stressed enough, when starting a new article, the most important thing you need to do before you start the article is to gather all of your research first. Find all of the reliable, independent sources for the information you wish to write, and cite those sources as you go. The difference between having a successful Wikipedia article and one that gets quickly deleted is the amount of work you do in preparation for writing it by getting your sources in order first. --Jayron32 12:45, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello, AsianStarRadio. I echo what 331dot and Jayron have said, and I would also advise that you will save yourself nad others a lot of wasted time by reading CSMN before looking for the sources that Jayron mentions. --ColinFine (talk) 15:25, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Making a TOC more visible

Could somebody who can see the screen (unlike me) deal with the query at Talk:Dust Bowl#No table of contents and make the TOC more visible? Thanks! Graham87 15:21, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@Graham87: I'm not quite seeing the issue. The lead isn't especially wrong, it renders correctly for me, and there is definitely a TOC. Not much we regular editors can do to change the TOC anyway. AdmiralEek ^{Thar she edits!} 16:19, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

As an outsider to the article, I've commented on the talk page, and been bold, which should alleviate the issue, or at least jump-start it somewhat. Chaheel Riens (talk) 17:10, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

regarding a topic, which need massive edits

I am a doctorate and I have quality publications in my field (Scopus, ProQuest, EBSCO, ABDC Indexed). Today, I tried to edit an article of my field which is very poorly written on Wikipedia. I posted my blog's domain and Scopus and ABDC indexed publication in the citation. Someone rejected the changes. If someone is genuine, you don't allow them to correct the article. I have seen crappy references being quoted on the same post. Why didn't you rejected that? I am so disappointed, I can even share my publications. The topic is "Poverty Alleviation Programmes in India" I did research and wrote a thesis on this. It is poorly written here. Since my blog is new, it doesn't indicate my credibility. You cant reject things like that if you want to maintain quality.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasky786 (talk • contribs)

Jasky786 You may wish to view this guidance for expert editors. You posted information about your blog, this is a severe conflict of interest. Please review that policy. Original research is not permitted on Wikipedia. What would be ideal is if you put the sources for where you are getting your information for your blog, not a link to your blog.

You are welcome to identify other references that you feel are problematic on the article talk page; we can only address what we know about, as this is a volunteer project. 331dot (talk) 16:57, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Help with the creation of Victoria De Angelis' page

I would really like to create a wikipedia page for the Italian-Danish bassist Victoria De Angelis. She is a member of Måneskin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A5neskin), but every time i try to create a page for her it redirects to the band members paragraph of the site (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A5neskin#Band_members). How can i create it? I am somewhat new to editing on wikipedia, so i hope this might be a stupid question. Veroxl (talk) 17:49, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Veroxl If she is only known for her work with the band, she would not merit a standalone article. 331dot (talk) 17:53, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh well, I guess that's fair. Thanks for the help! Veroxl (talk) 17:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

badly out of date page

Our company page hasn't been updated in years. We are a midsized publicly traded 3D printing company. As a PR pro, I didn't want to directly update it due to COI, so made suggestions in Talk. What do I do if nothing happens? This is basic stuff like who is our chairman and what is our revenue. Aaronmnprinter (talk) 19:11, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Aaronmnprinter You do not have a "company page" here. There is a Wikipedia article about your company. After reviewing conflict of interest and paid editing to learn about formal disclosures that you are required to make, you may add the formal edit request tag to your talk page comment, this will attract the attention of other editors. 331dot (talk) 19:25, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Get series of split tables to same size

I'm currently working on the List of career achievements by Yuzuru Hanyu and have a question regarding series of split tables, their size and accessibility:

According to the manual of style, column headers in the middle of tables should be avoided, if possible. So I split those tables into smaller ones (here is an old version of the page for comparison), but the new tables varied in size and it looked a bit odd, especially in the medal record, technical element and absolute best scores sections.

So I decided to put the series of split tables into a big one (nested tables) to get the tables to same width and place them at same height in the absolute best scores section. But now I read that this is not a good solution for screenreaders either. So my question is: what else can be done to fix the accessibility issue with these tables? Thank you very much! Henni147 (talk) 20:01, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

You can place them inside a <div> tag instead of a table. Ruslik_Zero 20:36, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Update: Problem solved. Thank you very much! Henni147 (talk) 10:27, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Trouble removing "in use" Template

While editing this page, I inserted an "in use" template to display while I was making changes. This is my first time doing this procedure. Now I am having difficulty deleting the template. Please advise! Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by EroniousThunk (talk • contribs) 20:42, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Asked and answered at the Teahouse. Please don't ask the same question in different places, EroniousThunk. It duplicates effort. --ColinFine (talk) 22:08, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Mobile menu translation

Hi,

How do I fix an incorrect translation that appears in the mobile menu on Wikipedia?

Thanks,

Guiding Knight (talk) 22:31, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

@Guiding Knight: Technical issues are usually handled at the Wikipedia:Village pump, but if you could be more specific, maybe someone here could help. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 00:29, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Timtempleton: Thanks, the issue is that the random button on mobile view when your display language is set to British English says "Ulah-aluh" but it should say "Random".

@Guiding Knight: It was fixed in [1]. The fix hasn't been deployed yet. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:32, 26 May 2021 (UTC)