Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2021 May 27

Help desk
< May 26	<< Apr | May | Jun >>	May 28 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

May 27

Archive box formatting

I noticed at User talk:CLCStudent that the archive
box
puts in a newline every ten entries, messing up
the
formatting. is there an easy way to avoid
this?
...and yes, I did mess up the formatting of this post on
purpose.
--Guy Macon (talk) 01:46, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Guy Macon: Looking at the parameters in {{Archive box}}, I found that setting either "banner=yes" or "auto=long" will change the formatting enough that it does not wrap in that way. Not sure if either of those format changes are a tradeoff you're interested in. RudolfRed (talk) 05:58, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

The other option is to create a subpage that has the formatting you desire, and specify it in the archivelist parameter. There is an example of that in the docs. RudolfRed (talk) 06:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

That did it. Thanks! Before:[1] After:[2] --Guy Macon (talk) 11:20, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Adding current time to entries for places

Many place entries include the location's time zone. I think it would be very helpful if these entries could also include the current time.

For example, the listing for Pakistan contains an attribute of Time Zone, which indicates " UTC+05:00 (PST) DST is not observed." However, this doesn't tell the visitor what time it currently is in Pakistan.

The current time is not standard information in that it needs to be dynamic. This can be accomplished using an API or javascript to calculate the current time.

How can I propose this change to the standard information displayed for places?

Please advise. Many thanks, N — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nbardach (talk • contribs) 02:42, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Nbardach: the place for your idea is Village pump: technical.--Quisqualis (talk) 02:48, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Intransigent new foreign editor DagneyGirl

I find myself in an edit war with a Belgian editor over place names. She insists that Belgian place names take priority over those found in my English language sources, and gives no source for her changes. She insists on destroying links in numerous articles I created tying the source place names to the modern place name. Several veteran editors, including myself, have used her User talk page to make good faith efforts to persuade her to follow the consensus to use English. Her behavior has been consistently defiant in stating her opinion is correct, although her language skills are lacking. I picked List of aerial victories of Gotthard Sachsenberg to serve as a test case. She has now made her third set of reverts to this article, though not in a 24 hour period. Her User talk page and the edit summaries in the Sachsenberg article tell the tale without my writing anything further.

I am unsure if this is the correct forum for this problem. Please advise me of the proper forum if I am in the wrong place.Georgejdorner (talk) 04:08, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

You want to go to WP:Request for comment. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 04:28, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

A I am not from Belgium and b Georgejdorner so called 'English language sources' claim is not holy true. The sources that Georgejdorner uses on pages like List of aerial victories of Gotthard Sachsenberg do not English names only, not even English from that time but uses names from documents, that can be English, French, German and Dutch names but also misspellings and phonetic spelling.

Georgejdorner just introduce these spellings on the pages with results that that on one page you find that spelling and an another spelling for the same place. Mistakes in documents are not corrected because taking one on one from the source. For example the misspelling 'Nieuwscapelle' is introduced on Wikipedia from the main source that is used to fill this pages, theaerodrome.com. There's no need for that. Same goes for the German word 'Uberschwemm', Georgejdorner added there (flood), so Georgejdorner knows that is not a English word, but did not correct the term or use the actual meaning in this context, flooded land. So text means that the fight was taking place over flooded land. On List_of_aerial_victories_of_Walter_Göttsch Georgejdorner decided not to always copy the name from the source one on one, heaerodrome.com. But that resulted in a mistake, making one place two places, 'Schaep-Baillie' to 'between Schaep and Baillie'. The actual place name is Schaapbalie. On List of aerial victories of Paul Billik it was spelled as 'Schaep Baillie', as spelled on heaerodrome.com page of Billik. On List of aerial victories of Eduard Ritter von Dostler there is the spelling 'Oostroubeke' directly from theaerodrome.com dostler page and this the only place where this spelling is used, apart from a forum that uses this name. We all make mistakes, but importing mistakes and different spellings for the same places not so helpful. DagneyGirl (talk) 07:23, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Georgejdorner: If you have concerns about an editor's conduct, please bring them to WP:ANI, but make sure you have all the relevant diffs on hand to state your case. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 07:43, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I was unaware of a consensus that editors must edit source materials as well as WP.Georgejdorner (talk) 15:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Many thanks for the help, folks. I have never before found myself in this situation.Georgejdorner (talk) 15:31, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

DELETION OF THE ARTICLE

GOOD DAY! I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST A DELETION FOR THE ARTICLE THAT I CREATED ABOUT OWEN VILCHES. PLEASE DELETE THIS ARTICLE BECAUSE THIS HASNT BEEN UPDATED YET. PLEASE THANK YOU!

BEST, CHRISTY — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChristyAquino (talk • contribs) 08:30, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Hello ChristyAquino! Based on what I see at User talk:ChristyAquino, that's been done. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:18, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Change/move title or a submitted not yet reviewed draft

Hi,

I submitted a draft for review and want to edit the name it was submitted as. I've checked and the edit is available. I've seen the move button talked about but don't see it when editing the draft. How can I do this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fleurcazalet (talk • contribs) 08:33, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Fleurcazalet: I assume this is about Draft:Andrew David Barclay. You can use the box below to rename it:

However adjusting the page title itsn't your main problem. The main problem is right now that Draft:Andrew David Barclay is unsourced, which means nobody can verify whats in there. Victor Schmidt (talk) 10:02, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Victor Schmidt, the OP is not WP:AUTOCONFIRMed, would the button work? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:07, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: No it doesnt. Should have checked that, his wording suggested that he saw it. @Fleurcazalet: Please only seek in one place for assistance, to avoid duplicate effort. Victor Schmidt (talk) 10:09, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Reliable Source

Hello

Please can I have information on where to send documentation to prove I am a reliable source?

Many thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.68.13.202 (talk) 09:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

We require published sources. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 09:27, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Polish Video Games

Hi, there is something wrong with this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_developed_in_Poland

I can see missing games from years ago, I know sources and tried to edti but a page is blocked from editing? why?

Please let me add missing games.

Kindest Regards Seb369777

User:Seb369777 No, there is nothing wrong with that page, it is a Category page, an index to existing pages, and you don't add things to it by editing it. You add things by going to the relevant article and adding the category at the foot of that page. If there isn't a relevant article, then, unless you write the article, it cannot be added, Best wishes - Arjayay (talk) 12:08, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh, and please sign all posts on talk pages (but NOT in articles) with 4 tildes ( ~~~~ ) which will add your signature and a timestamp. Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 12:10, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Category:Kuge mon (Japanese crests of court nobles') → Category:Kuge mon (Japanese crests of court nobles)

The Wikipedia category and classification contain special characters in Category: Kugemon (Japanese classes of court nobles').

Remove the special character : category kuge mon to go to (japanese crests of court nobles).

Do not include special characters when you decide on a title, such as a document and category frame.

Category:Kuge_mon_Japanese_crests_of_court_nobles

Thank you.Gameposo (talk) 12:28, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Gameposo, Commons:Category:Kuge mon (Japanese crests of court nobles') is a category on Commons so you could request a category move at Commons:Categories for discussion or ask for help at Commons:Help desk. TSventon (talk) 12:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Overwriting a redirect

I am thinking of starting an article on Sulgrave Manor. This is currently a redirect to a section of Sulgrave. The redirect has no Talkpage and doesn’t appear to have any useful history. Can someone remind me if it is okay just to overwrite the redirect with the new article? Many thanks in advance and apologies as I’m sure I’ve asked this question before. KJP1 (talk) 12:48, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@KJP1: Yes, if your article has more content about the subject than the redirect target then it's fine. I guess there is only one Sulgrave Manor. If some of the links at Special:WhatLinksHere/Sulgrave Manor were about another subject then they should be updated. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:57, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Super helpful, and fast! Many thanks. Yes, it will certainly end up with more content than is available at the redirect location. I am not aware of any other Sulgrave Manors and, even if there are, I think the Northamptonshire one would get primacy given its history. Many thanks again. KJP1 (talk) 13:01, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Prevent False information from being added to the article created in 2017 by an unknow user

Hello, is there way to prevent users from vandalizing an article about someone with bad/false information? I edit the source, remove the fake info and it gets put back by the same user.

What are my options to stop that from happening?

Thanks,

Without more details we can't give you anything approaching a sensible answer that isn't common-sense or otherwise so blindingly obvious as to be meaningless. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 14:20, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I think I have pieced together the problem; there's a controversial statement which is only referenced to an unreliable source, and the OP is correctly applying WP:BLP. I have protected the article and started a talk page discussion to stop the edit war. --Jayron32 14:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Kyiv and Kiev

I'm bored with this title change but this user tried to move the page of Kiev Day and Night with title, Kyiv for 1, 2, 3 times. Eventually, I put a footnote describing any English sources use the title Kiev with citing Newsbeezer as an example. I'm literally going with English language sources, not enforcing script Kiev must be recognized as Ukraine's capital. This also occurred prior many times while I revert their edits. The only things of these people, they do not explain their reason for move in the edit summary. This needs more administrator attention with this article. The Supermind (talk) 15:10, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

The Supermind, Sharky tale I presume this should follow Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ukrainian places)#Kiev/Kyiv. TSventon (talk) 15:32, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

The current guidance is:

• "For unambiguously current/ongoing topics (e.g. Kyiv Metro), Kyiv is preferred.
• For unambiguously historical topics (e.g. Kiev Offensive), do not change existing content.
• For any edge cases, or in case of doubt or dispute, an RfC or move request debate is recommended.
• In all cases, name changes must follow the WP:BRD cycle." TSventon (talk) 17:24, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I've move-protected it so only admin can move it. This is obviously debatable and therefore requires a clear consensus. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

"Subreferences"

I am looking for some help regarding the references section of ß. The article references several code pages written by one author, and I would like to reduce the amount of repetition in the references section such as having an author listed once and then having links to each of the code pages under that author's name. Is this possible, and if so, can someone point me in the right direction? Lexicon (talk) 21:13, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

My ref-fu is not the best but if I'm following you, I believe you want to add a "name" parameter to the first instance of the ref, just inside the brackets, with your chosen name for the ref, for example <ref name=helpdesk/> along with the full ref URL, etc. To use the same ref again you can just add the name only with the same formatting to cite the first ref again. As an example, see [3] A fairly shrt article so it's easier to see, in the infobox one ref is named "database" and then further down in the article text <ref name=database/>is all that is needed to cite it again. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:30, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

No, Beeblebrox, take a look at the references section in ß, you'll see:

Whistler, Ken (2015-12-02) [1999-07-27]. "ISO/IEC 8859-2:1999 to Unicode". Unicode Consortium.,

Whistler, Ken (2015-12-02) [1999-07-27]. "ISO/IEC 8859-3:1999 to Unicode". Unicode Consortium.,

Whistler, Ken (2015-12-02) [1999-07-27]. "ISO/IEC 8859-4:1998 to Unicode". Unicode Consortium...

I want to organize them to something like

Whistler, Ken. Unicode Consortium.

• "ISO/IEC 8859-2:1999 to Unicode".
• "ISO/IEC 8859-3:1999 to Unicode".
• "ISO/IEC 8859-4:1998 to Unicode".

Lexicon (talk) 02:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh. My bad. I feel like I have seen what you are describing but I don't personally know how to do it. If nobody else shows up here WP:VPT can probably help. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Gondola Accidents

I have a seven page reprint of the Chicago Tribune story on the Vail Colorado USA gondola accident that killed 4 persons. I would like to mail it to the person on your staff or website who would be most interested in preserving the accurate story. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.211.163.213 (talk • contribs)

That's very kind of you, but Wikipedia is written and maintained by volunteers, there is no central physical repository of reference material. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:59, 27 May 2021 (UTC)tlx|

Why not cite the original article? We allow offline references, if cited properly with {{cite news}}. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Jéské Couriano} 00:20, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Article has vanished: LiveWorkPlay

Hello, there was quite a robust page about our organization, LiveWorkPlay, and it seems to have disappeared. Is there any reason for this? I did not create the page but had made some small contributions over the years. It seemed very well constructed by multiple authors with proper citations.

Iamthekanadian (talk) 22:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LiveWorkPlay Beeblebrox (talk) 23:00, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi User:Iamthekanadian. So, it looks like the article was on the borderline of our notability standards and fell off the wrong side. I personally think that that is kind of a shame, but it is what it is.

So, for an article to exist, we require that it meets our notability standards which, to simplify, means two or more articles about it. There are two articles about it:

• "Walker: LiveWorkPlay — a community where everyone belongs" in the Ottawa Sun
• "Around Town: LiveWorkPlay celebrates 20 years of building an inclusive community" in the Ottawa Citizen

But, our rules are not completely rigid, and there are peripheral issues which come into play. So, while it meets our standards, it meets it by the bare minimum -- two articles, neither super detailed. And they both have a local-human-interest feel rather than being hard news (and the second is labeled under "Our Ottawa - Local News" which is a red flag to some), and that doesn't help.

If the perception is that this organization is purely a local one that's purely of interest only to people in Ottowa, to some editors that will count against the existence of the article (Yes, I know that Ottawa is large, but a lot of people interpret "local" broadly.)

Another way to think about it like this: the organization has about 100 employees or so, it looks like. Well, a grocery store has that. And we're not going to have an article on every grocery store in Canada. The Wikipedia doesn't really consider the type of business an organization is in, doesn't distinguish between charitable work and selling groceries

My opinion is that article should not have been deleted for various reasons, one being that it does meet our standards. But it was deleted anyway, and there's probably not a lot that can be done about it. If you're interested enough to pursue the matter, I can ask for an overturn on appeal WP:DRV, but slim chance that that'll work (appeals are only for wrong process, not re-evaluating the article on its merits), or we can take a look at the article and see if it can be salvaged -- also doubtful, but you never know. If you have the interest to do that, ask User:TonyBallioni (the person who did the actual deletion) to restore the article into your userspace (as User:Iamthekanadian/LiveWorkPlay), message me, and we'll see what's what. Herostratus (talk) 09:38, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I apologize, I do not know how to message anyone. This is very confusing. I did actually ask Tony about this and he seems a bit reluctant but I am hoping it is not a hard no, what I suggested was that I think I would be capable of repairing the issues. The page was created quite some time ago and there are dozens of mainstream media newspaper articles, large segments on television news, etc. I don't know what I am doing but I do think I would be capable of fixing the old page and easily exceeding the requirements. It is very kind of you to respond (I hope you will see this, I don't quite understand how this work) perhaps if you are willing, you could support my request to Tony and perhaps even review my work once I attempt to fix it? Or something like that? I just don't think I have the skills to start from nothing and it doesn't seem appropriate either, I work for the organization, I am not paid to do any of this, but it seems like I am not supposed to create a page if I work there, but at the same time, LiveWorkPlay is a very significant organization (we are presenting at the United Nations next week by way of example) and I would appreciate a chance to help update the page. I did see it, probably the last time I looked was 2018, and at the time there was nothing incorrectly written there. I suspect a lot of the references became obsolete, entire newspapers and news stations have disappeared since the article was first created. Anyway, appreciate your help. Iamthekanadian (talk) 19:39, 28 May 2021 (UTC)