Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 December 20

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December 20

Conclusions from two sources

I'm writing an article in which I say something along the lines of "[x] became president of [y] in 2010". I don't have any source directly stating this. I do, on the other hand, have two different sources dated to 2010, one from October stating that [x] is the current titleholder and one from July stating that a different individual is the current titleholder. My question is whether I can use those two combined sources to affirmatively state in the article that "[x] (at some point) became president of [y] in 2010". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:20, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Krisgabwoosh: That would be considered original research and so it could not be added in that way. Please read Wikipedia:SYNTH. Cheers~ ‍ ‍ Relativity ‍ ‍ 03:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Gotcha, I'll just omit the year, then. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 04:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Krisgabwoosh, [w], president of [y] in July 2010,^{[one reference]} was by October succeeded by [x].^{[the other reference]} -- Hoary (talk) 07:15, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

This could also work, cheers! Krisgabwoosh (talk) 08:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, the specific bit that says that they "became" president in 2010 is the problematic bit, because they could easily have got the job prior to that. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:21, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I think this is the type of basic factual information that may be covered by WP:BLPSELFPUB: if RSes mention the subject's presidency of body Y but not when it took place, the subject's CV would be a reasonable source for the timeframe. Folly Mox (talk) 14:49, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Clearing Up Generative/SEO Site References

I recently stumbled across a group of websites that seem to be full of AI Generated articles, possible for some sort of SEO hijacking. One of these sites seems to have lots of use on Wikipedia as references. What should I be doing to report this so that people with more experience than I do can start looking into this? Cmdrraimus (talk) 00:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

It might be useful to bring it up on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard? How many times is it used based on Special:LinkSearch? Reconrabbit (talk|edits) 03:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

If the sites are obviously AI generated trash being deceptively used on Wikipedia, you can probably skip WP:RSN and go straight to MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist. Folly Mox (talk) 03:54, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Removing Stub Page

I was looking to remove a stub page called "Zinc Finger Protein 839" because I have created a new article titled "ZNF839" that has extensive information about the same protein. I published my article under the name "ZNF839" so that it is not confused with the stub page. So, I was wondering how I can remove the stub page? Biology AD (talk) 15:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Biology AD, Zinc finger protein 839 is now a redirect to ZNF839, so I don't think any further action is needed. TSventon (talk) 15:22, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Biology AD I bolded the altname in the first sentence, per MOS:BOLDSYN. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:53, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Donation

I don't donate because I get put on a mailing list and cannot get rid of your notifications. 50.126.104.166 (talk) 16:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

See WP:NOBANNER. There doesn't seem to be any way of doing this automatically for IP users, so it is a good opportunity to create an account. However, you can click on this link.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:23, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! The volunteers at the Help desk work on editing Wikipedia, and do not control the donation processes of the Wikimedia Foundation. To discuss their mailing list, you may contact donate@wikimedia.org. GoingBatty (talk) 18:31, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Middleton family

Please fix up reference 59 - it is in "red" - I cannot do it. Thanks 20:24, 20 December 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.150.65.29 (talk)

The error states "{{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)". Is the source you're citing an academic journal? If so, add the name to the |journal= parameter. If not, use a different citation template. How does the URL in reference 59 help the reader? GoingBatty (talk) 20:55, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

FYI

 – Combined sections. Please don't start a new section when you're continuing a conversation. GoingBatty (talk) 06:41, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

This is ref number 59 as it currently stands:

It was recommended that the word "journal" be part of the citation - you can see (above) that the word "journal" is indeed clearly in the citation - yet it is still in red. Please fix - I am so confused! thanks 110.174.107.2 (talk) 23:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

(i) You've specified the page as "Wykehamist July 1914 – page 317, 19 March 1975, page 449" (a strange page number indeed), and you haven't specified the journal at all. ("Cite journal" merely says that you're citing a journal; it doesn't specify the journal.) I've no idea of how any of this kind of thing appears in the "visual editor", but it's straightforward when editing the "source". (ii) Must you repeat the exact same thread title? -- Hoary (talk) 23:25, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Looks like this citation is not so much to a journal as it is to two periodicals: a school newsletter in different years. I think Visual Editor doesn't support {{cite periodical}} (at least not in Minerva: it has {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}}, {{cite book}}, {{cite news}}, and something called "general", which I presume generates {{citation}}).

I've been able to get Visual Editor to display a modal with the different parameters broken out into separate text entry fields when testing editing citations in that interface; rather unfortunately, the fields have been renamed in some cases such that it's not clear what parameter they refer to (|work= and |page= I don't recall as being two of such), and certainly not all supported parameters are shown.

And I agree with GoingBatty above that the URL here is not helpful: it should point to the cited volume of the Winchester College Wakehamist in each of the two cases, unless their site structure is such that navigation through their archives doesn't alter the URL whatsoever (like the National Weather Service record temperatures someone asked about a few days ago). Folly Mox (talk) 12:38, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Please help and I'm sorry 110.174.107.2 (talk) 23:35, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Below is the web-site and it appears there are two separate page numbers....:

https://winchestercollegearchives.org/

Thanks and please fix. - I'm sorry 110.174.107.2 (talk) 23:45, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

References

 Fixed 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:55, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Not fixed. Definitely not fixed. Changing a junk {{cite journal}} citation to a junk {{cite web}} citation does not a fix make.

Two urls are provided above; neither returns anything that I can read that contains the words 'Middleton' or 'Wykehamist'. Both forms of the citation are attempting (apparently) to cite different issues of the same source (July 1914 and March 1975 – and to add extra confusion |year=2023 and |quote=...July 1914...1914 – June 26 and 27...19th March 1975...). {{cite journal}}, {{cite web}}, and all of the other cs1|2 templates are no designed to support more than one source at a time. Need to cite multiple issues of the same source? Use multiple templates. The value assigned to |title= probably belongs in |website= (if whatever the source being cited is the website – I don't know because |url= does not link to whatever the actual source is.

Because cite note 59 is just so much junk, I have deleted it. Maybe, just maybe, IP can replace that junk citation with something meaningful (we can always hope, but I'm not going to hold my breath).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:32, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Ignore editor?

Is it possible to effectively ignore an editor, specifically from Recent Changes feeds? For example, my recent changes feeds, including my watchlist, are currently un-followable due to an automated task being carried out by "‎JJMC89 bot III". I know I can filter out bot edits, but some bot edits I would like to see, and so I am wondering if I can be more granular. Kimen8 (talk) 21:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

WP:HIDEBOTS has a line of javascript that can be customised to ignore specific bot accounts on your watchlist; I presume it could be adapted to work for Special:RecentChanges. Folly Mox (talk) 03:05, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I am also looking to filter junk like this editor, where bot edits are being made and not being tagged as such and thus not being filtered when I filter out bot edits. Kimen8 (talk) 14:21, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Red links

Is there a way to seek out red links in an article, or search them on Wikipedia? I am looking for new pages to create, so this would be helpful. Memer15151 (talk) 21:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Memer15151: You can just go to a random page until you find one, look up an article about a topic you're interested in and see if there's any redlinks on that page, or you can take a look at WP:Requested Articles. Cheers! ‍ ‍ Relativity ‍ ‍ 21:42, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Did you mean Wikipedia:Most-wanted articles? That's the one based off redlinks rather than manual requests. Folly Mox (talk) 03:08, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

You can use the tool Missing topics, which will return the redlinks of an article or a category Tutwakhamoe (talk) 01:40, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Memer15151, two red links for somebody: F-LOB (aka "FLOB", F-LOB) and Frown (Frown), both of which richly merit blue links. (But please, no mere stub. In my perhaps minority opinion, a stub is worse than nothing.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:45, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Okay. I’m currently working on Draft:List of fossorials, so after I fill it out a bit more I’ll work on some other articles. Memer15151 (talk) 12:55, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Help with Advertorial Article

I created the content below, but it was rejected for being to advertorial. Could someone take a look and tell me specifically I should change to make it better?

text of proposed article

Premom is a women’s health app and product brand designed to simplify the process of fertility tracking, aiding women in their journey to achieve natural conception. The app provides technology enabling smartphones to interpret ovulation test kits with quantitative results, providing women with real-time data on their hormone levels. Additionally, women can utilize a Bluetooth-enabled basal body temperature (BBT) device to automatically chart temperatures. The Premom app is free from iOS and Android app stores. [1][11] The app offers both a free and paid subscription plan. A paid subscription provides women with extra features and support backed by fertility experts like cycle analysis and comparison reports, cycle gallery, expert answers library, and personalized content.[11] History Premom app was co-founded in 2017 by Sherry Liu and Li Zou, who also created Premom’s sister brand, easy@Home, The same brand carries a wide range of in-home healthcare products including drug tests, personal health tests, and devices, as well as fertility and pregnancy tests.[8][15] In 2018, the company launched a feature that enhanced the utility of qualitative ovulation tests within the app. This innovation transitioned ovulation test results from a visual log to a digital reader being able to quantify a woman’s hormone levels from a mobile phone. This reader captures an image of an ovulation test, allowing Premom to perform quantitative analyses, and accurately record luteinizing hormone levels. In January 2020, Premom introduced “9-Cycle Money-Back Guarantee,” offering a comprehensive refund for all of the company’s ovulation, pregnancy, and basal thermometer products if conception is not achieved after nine menstrual cycles. This program also includes a complimentary virtual consultation after six unsuccessful cycles of attempting to conceive and menstrual cycle insights derived from data recorded in the app. [7] Mobile App The Premom mobile application helps women get pregnant by using a combination of fertility awareness-based methods for tracking and predicting ovulation. The primary method involves the use of an ovulation predictor kit to monitor luteinizing hormone (LH) levels.[4] Women track their LH levels daily by uploading the test results and the app’s algorithm reads test results immediately and shows the progression of the LH Level. The app monitors and analyzes these hormone levels in real-time, pinpointing the surge in LH3] This integrated approach addresses challenges many women face when they use the ovulation tests alone. Premom mitigates these issues through the digital ovulation test reader, eliminating the need for manual interpretation and delivering an understanding of the hormonal cycle through its algorithm.[4][6] The second method involves tracking basal body temperature. BBT is the lowest natural body temperature after a period of rest. Following ovulation, BBT typically increases by about half a degree, reflecting the increase in the hormone progesterone and signaling a successful release of an egg. Women take their temperature each morning immediately upon waking and wirelessly sync these temperatures to the Premom app through the Bluetooth-enabled smart thermometer, this data is charted alongside other fertility indicators, eliminating the need for manual entry and reducing the margin for error.[16] The app also lets people track changes in their menstrual cycle, including sex, period flow and color, cervical mucus, moods, medications, vitamins, symptoms, weight, sleep, insemination, exercise, and cervical position.[4][11] The app’s algorithm calculation is based on the data uploads of biometric fertility indicators, enabling Premom’s artificial intelligence programming to offer predictions of the menstrual, ovulation, and fertile window.[5] Women can also use the Premom Ovulation Tracker App, if they are pregnant. The app offers a pregnancy mode to monitor fetal development week by week, track symptoms, kick counter, and personalized educational content on prenatal care, pregnancy diet and exercise, birth, and postpartum.[7][11] Product & Services Premom offers a range of fertility products, including ovulation tests, pregnancy tests, and supplements. These products integrate with the Premom ecosystem, enhancing the overall user experience. Their primary product is the fertility app, available on iPhone and Android devices.[1] [11] The Premom Quantitative Ovulation Test, introduced in 2019, offers quantification of luteinizing hormone levels from 0 to 80 mIU/mL, to help pinpoint the fertile window more accurately and precisely.[11] A study released in 2023 showed Premom and Easy@Home LH fertility testing app accurately detects impending ovulation for women and is easy to use at home.[2] The Premom fertility app provides a suite of features, including menstrual and ovulation tracking, cycle predictions, and pregnancy monitoring.[3] Additionally, the Premom app offers additional fertility services to app users through their virtual consultations launched in 2020 and Ask an Expert service in 2021.[9] Virtual consultations allow women to schedule a time to meet virtually with a qualified fertility provider to analyze their home testing data, charts, and othersymptoms. . This consultation service allows for health specialists to have insights and better access to connect with patients. [8][9] Premom’s product range and services can be purchased through platforms such as Amazon.com, Walmart.com, eBay, and the official website, Premom.com. Additional services can be accessed directly through the mobile app. Research Studies have shown Premom used along with ovulation tests can be an accurate method for detecting ovulation and estimating the fertile window.[2] A recent study published in Medicina in 2023 by Qiyan Mu and Richard Jerome Fehring, looked at two hormonal fertility monitoring systems for ovulation detection. The study found that estimates of peak fertility by Premom and Easy@Home LH testing were highly correlated with the Clearblue Fertility Monitor peak results (R=0.99, p < 0.001). Premom and easy@Home LH testing equipment have a tighter estimate of two days for targeting the most fertile days of the menstrual cycle. The estimated ovulation date is sufficient for people who want to time intercourse for conception.[2][11] These studies however only focused on accuracy and the user experience of the app and didn’t evaluate the comprehensiveness of other areas in the app. [2] ‘Fact Sheet Panel’ Initial release: 2017 Languages: 13 languages [1] List of languages: English, Arabic, Dutch, French, German, Hindi, Italian, Japanese, Norwegian Bokmål, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Traditional Chinese Type: Period-tracking and fertility app Operating systems: iOS & Android Website: www.premom.com References 1.    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/premom-ovulation-tracker/id1279295922 2.    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9960263/ 3.    https://www.thebump.com/a/best-ovulation-predictor-kits#product-2 4.    https://www.gadgetgram.com/2020/01/15/premom-ovulation-calculator-app/ 5.    https://twentytwowords.com/review/best-ovulation-test-strip/ 6.    https://www.romper.com/life/best-fertility-app 7.    https://www.bamboobamboo.com/pages/best-pregnancy-apps#premom 8.    https://thesiliconreview.com/magazine/profile/improve-your-chances-of-natural-conception-drastically-with-premom/ 9.    https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/07/01/2056191/0/en/Premom-Launches-First-Data-Based-Fertility-Telehealth.html 10.  https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2019/08/22/1905371/0/en/First-of-Its-Kind-Fertility-App-to-Quantify-Women-s-LH-Hormone-Level-to-Get-Real-Time-Ovulation-Prediction.html 11.  https://www.forbes.com/health/womens-health/best-ovulation-tests/ 12.  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=premom.eh.com.ehpremomapp&hl=en_US&gl=US 13.  https://premom.com/blogs/press-releases/premom-helps-women-get-pregnant-naturally-and-sooner 14.  https://premom.com/pages/membership 15.  https://www.linkedin.com/company/easy-at-home-medical-llc/about/

Bcooper9 (talk) 21:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I have collapsed the text of your article Bcooper9: it is not appropriate to paste it here. Please note that that promotion of any kind is not permitted on Wikipedia. If there are suitable indepedent reliable sources about Premom that are enough to establish that it meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability, then there can be an article on it. The article should be based almost 100% on what those indepedent sources say: Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. --ColinFine (talk) 21:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Just looking over the list of references, it doesn't look to me as if a single one meets the triple requirement of being reliably published, wholly independent of the company, and containing significant coverage of the brand. If I am right, it is not surprising that your deleted draft read as an advert, because it will have been written entirely from the point of view of the company. You must inevitably have written it BACKWARDS.

Please note also that for medical subjects, the requirements of reliability of sources are even stricter: see WP:MEDRS. --ColinFine (talk) 21:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

"aiding women in their journey to achieve natural conception": These days, promotional writing has so many "journeys". Although the "journey" here is of course a relatively minor problem within a fundamentally unsuitable draft. -- Hoary (talk) 21:58, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Replacing logo for GM Buses?

Again, I'm not sure whether this is right place to ask, but is it possible under site regulations and, therefore, would it be worth a user recreating the logo for the former bus operator GM Buses from scratch as a scalable but slightly-higher resolution SVG file? I get the rationale for using "low-resolution images" for logos constituting a degree of fair use, however the quality of File:GMBuses.JPG still is pretty sketchy. The very, very small size and use of the orange background for an orange logo certainly isn't doing it any favours visually, and I'd personally be asking where the logo has been produced from in the first place, since any online trace of GM Buses' identity pretty much disappeared by the time the Internet Archive came about. Hullian111 (talk) 21:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hullian111, the Internet Archive has been archiving pre-internet books and magazines (as well as newer ones). And of course people have scanned odd pages and images within their own copies of books and magazines. -- Hoary (talk) 22:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh, so I could have scanned magazine clippings on as non-free files all this time? Its a bit off-topic from the question, but looks like I might have to go rooting around in the attic for my stored magazines, then. Hullian111 (talk) 22:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hullian111, when you see a desirable image on a web page, "common sense" may whisper "It's already on the web, so it's already kind of in the 'public domain', and so nobody's going to mind much if I claim 'fair use' for it." But that notion of "public domain" (as in "allegations of his misconduct have been in the public domain since 2018") is utterly inapplicable, and "common sense" should be stoutly ignored. What's on the web is just as problematic as what is not -- so of course what is not on the web is, in principle, no more problematic than what is. Though one problem about magazine clippings is that (among other hurdles, of course) the uploader has to specify the publishing details; "Some bus-spotting magazine of 1978 or so; sorry, I didn't make a note of which one" is not going to hack it. -- Hoary (talk) 23:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Timezones

Hi, so I noticed that on the page for Geometry Dash, it says Update 2.2 was released on the 20th, even though it released on the 19th for me. (I'm in PST.) What date do we put on the article? RteeeeKed💬📖 22:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia operates in UTC as standard, I believe, so at an uneducated guess, I'd personally put the 20th as the date. Hullian111 (talk) 22:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Hosting Wikipedia from my server/NAS

Overview of system architecture as of August 2022

Hello everyone, I was having a conversation about libraries and Wikipedia was also mentioned, this brought me to the point of this question. Is it possible for anyone to be able to host Wikipedia from a specifically allocated hard drive (say 18TB unless Wikipedia is bigger than that) that is on their server/NAS device. If the Wikipedia developers operated those hard drives with a software app that only allowed Wikipedia administrators access to that app, then the running costs of hosting Wikipedia would surely be lower. Donating my electricity if you like. From a hosting point of view I personally wouldn't want any access to the synced files nor the management of its content but I would love to be able to help Wikipedia by donating my hardware and electricity. I don't know how Wikipedia is ran, i.e. from one data centre or from 100K micro hosts, (if that's even a thing). Wikipedia was awesome for me when I went back to College and has been good to me over the years since, so therefore I would love to help Wikipedia remain free for everyone like it was for myself. I donate when I can but I just thought that that might be a nice way to help with the costs if that system of hosting does actually exist. Thank you for your time in reading this and any replies that may follow. Kind Regards 80.193.8.20 (talk) 22:52, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The storage is a very minor part of what is needed to support Wikipedia for the world. See Wikipedia#Hardware operations and support. The huge problem is the bandwidth and computing power needed to serve the web pages to the users: Wikipedia is one of the top ten most-accessed sites on the Internet. You can however set up a local copy for yourself. -Arch dude (talk) 23:17, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

80.193.8.20, in addition to Arch dude's answer: unfortunately, when the means of hosting a project (in the holistic sense) like Wikipedia becomes diffusely controlled and distributed, the result is often less desirable than when the means of contribution are distributed, as is the norm. Remsense留 04:29, 21 December 2023 (UTC)