Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 February 1

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February 1

Italics and non-italics in title

The page House of X and Powers of X is not about a comic book as usual, but about two comic books ("House of X" is one, and "Powers of X" the other). They have a single article because they were published concurrently, both as part of the same comic book project, and with a story that was basically going from one to the other all the time. It would be way too confusing and with duplicate and overlapped info to write it as two articles, so it is done that way. The article's title is in italics, I understand that is caused by {{Infobox comic book title}}. However, the italics should then be for both comics, but not the "and". Is there a way to fix that? Cambalachero (talk) 03:53, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:DISPLAYTITLE tells you how to get some more complex formatting into the displayed article title. You'll also want to add "|italic title=no" to the infobox. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:58, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

CSS, JS, and <embed> restriction

CSS restriction

That's dearchivation of my topic because it's ongoing. It's under today's date to prevent the bot from archiving it again. That's maybe look like solved, but there's a not solved question anyway (about .mw-parser-output).Hello, that's my second question. Unfortunately, santizer.php restricts the use of CSS (not bans it at all but restricts it a bit) and i got some problems about that. Looks like i cannot put some rules because of

elseif ( preg_match(

'! expression

                | filter\s*:

                | accelerator\s*:

                | -o-link\s*:

                | -o-link-source\s*:

                | -o-replace\s*:

                | url\s*\‍(

                | image\s*\‍(

                | image-set\s*\‍(

                | attr\s*\‍([^)]+[\s,]+url

            !ix', $value ) ) {

return '/* insecure input */';

}

Is santizer.php looks into TemplateStyles? If yes, is that elseif looks to it? If yes (or i will cannot use they on TemplateStyles because other reasons), are there a way to use these rulesets?

JS restriction

Also, are there a way to put a JS into a wiki page? I can need doing that for various reasons.

<embed> restriction

Finally, are there a way to put an <embed> into a wiki page? I need doing it to run Shockwave Flash movies, really. RuzDD (talk) 23:44, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Ask technical questions like this at WP:Village pump (technical).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:49, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll answer anyway. CSS: TemplateStyles is not sanitized by the specific code you copied here, but it is sanitized by other code elsewhere that imposes a similar (but not identical) set of restrictions, so what you are trying to do is unlikely to work there.

JS: Literally yes, via techniques such as WP:User scripts and gadgets, but assuming you are actually asking whether it is possible to add JavaScript that runs for each viewer of a wiki page then no because that would open up cross-site scripting attacks. WP:On-demand gadgets will hopefully soon be enabled, which would in theory allow an interface admin to set up JavaScript that runs on a given page, but in practice they won't without a very good reason.

<embed>: This is outright not possible, although of course if you are running JavaScript it could add the embed tag for you. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Pppery Your assumation is correct, i mean putting that script to that page. I hope that gadget is going to allow standard users to put their scripts at least in their user space. But, i cannot understand why CSS's are santizing because i cannot see any vulnerability at CSS's. And, i'll be happy if some embed support will come to MW, thanks. And, @Orangemike: i cannot understand it because open-source players (emulators, such as Ruffle) also can run those movies. Shcokwave Flash technology supports lots of features for very tiny storing spaces and hardware powers, i love it. Thanks. I wrote that to not that pump because that's a question right now, i think i must transfer it to the pump if that's converted to a request. I hope i understood correctly. RuzDD (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

For example CSS could load content from a third-party website thereby resulting in every viewer of a page sending their IP address to that website, a violation of privacy. That's just one example I can think of off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are more. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Are users not sending their IP's to WMF anyway? (that's just the thing i wanted to do...) RuzDD (talk) 04:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and the WMF imposes a strict privacy policy on that data, which third-party websites added through CSS (even if non-malicious) won't follow. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

So, it'll be very good if the WMF servers van download these data with their IP adresses and give that data to me instead of saying me "please download https://www.example.com/blabla-image.jpg". I don't care about giving my IP's to image servers but (as you say) someone can care about that and that way will make both they and i happy. RuzDD (talk) 05:20, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the WMF wants to operate an arbitrary reverse proxy, nor would it be a good idea even if they did. Anyway, I decline to indulge in further hypotheticals - Wikipedia doesn't support loading stuff from external sites for various reasons and this is not going to change in the future. If this is really just about an image that you can upload it to Wikimedia Commons - the sanitizer for TemplateStyles CSS does accept URLs pointing to files uploaded on Commons. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. RuzDD (talk) 17:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, i noticed another thing in templatestyles to ask. Why all of the rulesets are limited to .mw-parser-output? Does anyone know that? RuzDD (talk) 04:34, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

This is another security feature, to (mostly) ensure that CSS code can only affect the result of other wikitext and not overwrite parts of the interface (otherwise you could do * {display:none; } to make the entire page invisible, which would be a pain to investigate and fix). * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 05:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Pppery Is this a very easy escape from the security hole? Because, for example, if i want to make my "very own" user page and redesign all the interface, i cannot give z-index to some UI buttons to redesign them. I think it'll be better to limit these to .mw-parser-output only if they are containing some unsecure commands for example display, position, opacity:0, etc. Actually i even think writing * {display:none; } will not be a problem because opening developer tools and removing the style tag of the templatestyles will disable the custom styles completely and make the entire UI visible. RuzDD (talk) 07:34, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Was "this" meant to link to something? It didn't.

The problem with your idea is that determining what CSS properties are dangerous in the way you describe it is an ill-defined proposition. Yes, you and I know how to circumvent rouge stylesheets, but the idea is that many people forced in such a situation will not know.

Anyway, what gives you the authority to redesign the UI for others browsers when they visit your userpage? WP:SMI would imply nothing does.

This discussion has gone far past the point of productivity - it's clear you won't accept that the current restrictions are justified and just as clear that you won't convince the people who have the authority to change them (which doesn't include me or any of the other participants in this discussion), so I won't be responding further. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

That rule does not apply to all wikis, but thanks anyway (also for removing the archive). RuzDD (talk) 18:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

As I understand it, Wikipedia does not permit the use of proprietary formats such as Adobe Flash; you must provide content in an open-source format. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Also looks like SWF is an open-source format, look at [1] there's almost every details of the format was explained. RuzDD (talk) 05:02, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Even if <embed> would be allowed Wikimedia sites do not permit displaying content from external sites, even for images. You would also need to get Flash movies as an accepted format either locally or in Commons. Considering the format is obsolete I really think it would be easier to convert the Flash movies you want into some other acceptable format like .webm and upload the converted video. MKFI (talk) 08:54, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@MKFI Yes. I accept banning content from external sites, but i can't understand why Flash is not accepted. It's open source (look at 3. external link) and has open source players (for example Ruffle). It's just like MP3, licensed it past but free in now. Also, SWF files are unbeatable and converting they to webm etc without quality or interaction loss is probably impossible. For example, Flash movies can include vector graphics those can be displayed at infinite resolutions at maximum sharpness while webm cannon contain that. Also, Flash movies can include ultra-secure and private interactions (buttons, text inputs, etc) those also not supported by webm and etc. These are very secure because AS does not have JS freedom, for example it cannot be used for making an edit with that user's username without his/her permission. The user has full freedom for denying Flash Player from storing data on local computer, also Flash Player does not allow movies to access data of other domains. May some kind of interwiki SWF support (and automatic enabling of Ruffle if no installed Flash Player has detected) be enabled? RuzDD (talk) 10:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Extra note: I really can't understand why Shockwave Flash is retired. Modern techs such as Unity runs at very lower performance than Flash for very limited experience (i tried it). I'm using Flash Player almost every day and it's the best media format i ever seen. For example, Unity does not antialias graphics, while Flash does it with very high quality and much higher speed. Also, no one can beat it for audio playing. It interpolates audio with linear interpolation instead of sinc interpolation that many media players use, so sounds being much better (16kbps MP3 sounds excellent in most times). RuzDD (talk) 10:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Adobe Flash and .SWF are basically defunct formats as of 2024. It has been a long time since browsers and mobile devices routinely supported them, and it is now virtually impossible to install the Flash plug-in in a browser.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

1: I can use original in-browser flash player easily (Pale Moon Web Browser is ideal for NPAPI tasks). Using Flash with Firefox and Chrome is harder but not impossible.

2: For users those don't have a Flash plugin installed, Ruffle is a good choice. Works almost perfectly with AS2 and plays media with fidelity. It's performance is lower than Flash Player but much higher than alternative techs such as Unity (i tested them). RuzDD (talk) 13:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@RuzDD: Wikimedia takes accessibility and standards quite seriously. I honestly can't see anything that would require a user to install additional software to have much chance of being accepted. If you really wish to try, you could comment on phab:T28269. MKFI (talk) 14:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

If Wikimadia wikis include the Ruffle scripts (that's too easy), users will don't have to install something to run movies (go to [2] and select a movie, it'll run with a few clicks and no installations). Also, i don't know how phab works very well: what happens when a task is declined but a user finds the reason is not true? I have to create a new task? Or change priority to "Needs triage" or "Low"? RuzDD (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

RuzDD, it seems like an enormous potential security hole and otherwise sizable engineering effort for comparatively little gain, if not for you, then in the mind of those actually maintaining the codebase. If I can be honest: this will not happen, and you shouldn't get your hopes up. — Remsense诉 14:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Ruffle does not contain potential security holes (both Wiki article and official website says that). There's may be different ideas about the security of original player, but if user has installed Flash Player, these "potential" security holes are already opened, even if the user does not run any SWF's. And, if the user has not installed the original player, there's no "potential" security hole. RuzDD (talk) 16:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

As explained on [3], installing Ruffle to the website without requiring the user install something on his/her computer is easy as putting <script src="https://unpkg.com/@ruffle-rs/ruffle"></script> at the page. With this code, Ruffle will work with standard SWF inheriting way, so adding something like <embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="https://www.example.com/something.swf" width="768" height="576"> will cause the SWF to play securely and without requiring Flash Player. RuzDD (talk) 16:11, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

┌───────────────────────────┘
RuzDD,

• It's written in Rust, so it probably doesn't have unsafe memory issues, but that's not the only way software can be insecure.
• It may be conceptually easy for you, but that does not mean it's procedurally easy. Wikipedia is served to billions of people every month—every user-facing software change is an enormous deal that requires significant scrutiny.
• The operative issue being—for what gain? How many users would actively benefit from this? "Inadequately many" would be my guess.

— Remsense诉 00:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Remsense I think too many users will get advantage from that. For example, if you look at PNG, you will see a PNG example in the top of screen. If the Flash support comes, you also can see a few example Flash movies in the Adobe Flash and Ruffle articles. Also, it will be the only video format that allows both vector graphics and sounds in the wikis. Interactivity is also an enormous benefit, for example users can press the +/- buttons to change the picture for easier quality comparisons on JPEG article (SWF format supports JPEG). And, about technical side: It have two parts. The first part is a bit harder, but the second part is very easy. First part: Commons must accept files in SWF format. I'm not sure how to do that but i think this must not be too hard. Second part: Wikis must be able to run SWF's in ruffle. That's just a easy process (of course must be tested on test wiki firstly). Just an interface sysop must put $("div.wiki-swflash-container").html("<embed type=\"application/x-shockwave-flash\" src=\""+$(this).attr("id")+"\" style=\"width:100%;height:100%;margin:0px;\">");var swfo=false;try{swfo=Boolean(new ActiveXObject('ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash'));}catch(exception){swfo=('undefined'!=typeof navigator.mimeTypes['application/x-shockwave-flash']);}if(!swfo){mw.loader.load("https://unpkg.com/@ruffle-rs/ruffle");}/*If the Flash Player is already installed, Ruffle emulator will not be activated.*/ to a common JS page (looks like JQuery is already installed here), and SWF movies will run with just typing <div class="wiki-swflash-container" id="path/to/file.swf" style="width:768px;height:576px;"></div> (use ID as SRC attribute and indicate width&height in CSS level). RuzDD (talk) 03:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

And, about security: Yes, that's not only way of "potential" security issues, but everything can have "potential" security issues. With Ruffle, Flash does not contain "potential" security issues more than webm and other formats contains. RuzDD (talk) 04:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, what to do with a declined phab task that is declined with an invalid/wrong reason? Changing priority to Needs triage or Low or creating a new task? RuzDD (talk) 03:54, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

RuzDD, there is a reason there is not a felt need for both vector graphics and sounds in the wikis. The viable use cases of both animation and sound on Wikipedia is already very limited, never mind both at once.
Wait—are you suggesting that the library is meant to enable the authorship of new Flash files, and not just the playback of historical ones? No one wants to make new Flash animations—it's a dead, proprietary format. It's an accessibility and flexibility nightmare. I'm now trebly convinced that this suggestion will not be going anywhere, unfortunately. — Remsense诉 12:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Remsense Ruffle is not making new movies, but there's someone who accepts making new movies via original program: me! Also, it's not dead and not limited to only archive.org etc.: go to [4] and click "main" or "games" in the bottom, then you'll see Ruffle containers everywhere.

An example to great benefit of Flash in articles: Go to palette (computing). You'll see a video on the right side that shows different palette sizes, but due to it's almost impossible to change palette size manually, it's hard to see differences. Assume it's an interactive SWF: you will be able to change palette size manually to see differences.

Advantages of SWF format are undeniable, and both the article&official website says Ruffle does not contain any more security issues. Second part of installation is easy (i gave the tested code), and first part of it must not be very hard. I think it's worth giving it a chance. RuzDD (talk) 13:38, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

The format is proprietary and defunct—that alone disqualifies it from consideration. Remsense诉 16:31, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

I cannot see a rule like "officially retired formats cannot be used on wikis". What to do with a phab request if it's declined but the reason is wrong? RuzDD (talk) 18:38, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

RuzDD, it's not a rule but I'm telling you that's the reason it won't happen. Again, you are one of the few people working in this proprietary, defunct format, and you want to make a change that will affect billions of people by default. Even if it seems minor and easy for you, it simply is not. — Remsense诉 18:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thanks, i hope i can make all of the technical stuff ready to make enabling that very easy and secure. I hope these codes will not get lost in the archives. RuzDD (talk) 19:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Удаление статьи

Здравствуйте. Подскажите, пожалуйста, как можно удалить статью о человеке из википедии? Статья обо мне и я хочу удалить

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Зюзин,_Александр_Викторович 83.69.214.109 (talk) 06:28, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

(Above, via Google Translate: "Hello. Please tell me how can I delete an article about a person from Wikipedia? Article about me and I want to delete")

This is the help desk for the English-language Wikipedia - we have no control over Russian-language Wikipedia content. AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

The RU wiki help desk is at ru:Википедия:Форум/Вопросы RudolfRed (talk) 07:06, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Aleksandr Viktorovich/IP 83.69.214.109. The article about you is present on five Wikipedias, including the article Aleksandr Zyuzin here at English Wikipedia. If you wish to propose this article for deletion here, please see WP:PROD, and if that doesn't work, WP:Articles for deletion. English Wikipedia has no control or influence over what happens at other language Wikipedias, and you will have to contact them independently:

• Egyptian Arabic: arz:اليكساندر زيوزين – please see arz:ويكيبيديا:نقاش المسح for deletion instructions
• Polish: pl:Aleksandr Ziuzin – please see pl:Wikipedia:Poczekalnia for deletion instructions
• Russian: ru:Зюзин, Александр Викторович – please see ru:Википедия:К удалению for deletion instructions
• Spanish: es:Alexandr Ziuzin – please see es:Wikipedia:Consultas de borrado mediante argumentación for deletion instructions

Hope this helps! Mathglot (talk) 10:17, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Access to Wikidata item for a page

I want to install the button (?) at the top of a mainspace page that with a click connects to its Wikidata item. I work in numerous language projects - can I enable this globally or must do so individually? -- Deborahjay (talk) 11:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@Deborahjay On the default WP:VECTOR22 skin there should already be a menu item on the right of article text which links to the Wikidata item for that article. It is in the section called "General", which includes "What links here" etc. I'm not sure how non-English versions of Wikipedia handle this. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@Deborahjay: You can. See d:User:Pigsonthewing/Setup#On_Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:44, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Cleanse (album)

Is it OK to start a move request for Cleanse (album) to DRAFT space after the AFD? The article still has only one reference. --Jax 0677 (talk) 12:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@Jax 0677 The Talk Page of the article now has a number of other possible sources. Since the outcome of the AfD was "keep", I think that the best thing to do now is to actually incorporate the new sources. That will be more likely to happen in mainspace than in draft space. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:54, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Isabelle McNally

Hello,

I recently created the biographical article on actress Isabelle McNally. I understand that there's a Wikipedia page about her on the Spanish-language Wiki. How do I link the two pages together? The Film Creator (talk) 15:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

You do so in Wikidata. If you are using the default skin on a browser, then there is a button "Add languages" at the top right, which you can pick and that will take you to the Wikidata item. I'm not sure how you do it on other platforms, but WP:ILL will probably help. ColinFine (talk) 15:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@The Film Creator: You can also do so within the English Wikipedia article by going to the Tools menu and clicking "Add interlanguage link". GoingBatty (talk) 22:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Services

Do you recommend any services to help start a page ? Sugarpantsjohnson (talk) 16:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sugarpantsjohnson If you mean a service that will make a WP-article for money, no. Wikipedians are reasonably convinced pretty much any such service is a scam. Try to start with WP:BACKWARD, WP:YFA and, on how to edit in general, WP:TUTORIAL. The answer to "Can I create a WP-article about X?" is often "no." More derails at WP:N. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:55, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Pandoro

This page is without reference since 2003. JackkBrown (talk) 18:02, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

So find some. Are there references within the two cited books? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 18:16, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more with Martin's comment. Try searching for the relevant information yourself, work out how to create references (see WP:Referencing for beginners) and do something useful for a change rather than obsessing over the usage of italics in a language which by your own admission you don't speak very well. MinorProphet (talk) 18:25, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@MinorProphet: in fact, I use English dictionaries to find out which foods should be written in cursive and which should not; it's now something I do independently, and I no longer have any difficulty with it; however, I'm free to concentrate on what I want, if for now I prefer to take care, on my own, without asking anyone, only of the cursive, as long as I respect the rules no one can tell me to stop. In any case, there's no harm in implicitly asking for references to be added (if nobody will do it, I will do it, but not today, or even this month). JackkBrown (talk) 20:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@JackkBrown: There were over 110,000 articles in Category:All articles lacking sources before you added this article to the list. There's nothing wrong with adding {{unreferenced}} to the article. Once you do that, please don't announce it. You may ask more detailed questions at the article's talk page. If you don't receive sufficient responses there after a week, you may ask the related WikiProjects to join the talk page discussion. GoingBatty (talk) 22:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

How do i add a Wikilink to the Vehicle registration plate Region Code in the Infobox?

Hello, i was trying to add a Wikilink to a License Plate Region Code (for consistency) in the Page of a village in Germany but could not find how to edit the Region Code in the Infobox. The Page only contains the (correct) Region Code information in the German version. Thank you MS242 (talk) 21:30, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

The parameter in Template:infobox German place appears to be called "licence" (or "license" or "Kfz"). ColinFine (talk) 21:49, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

I CTRL+F searched the source code for "Kfz", "license" and "licence" with no results. Also there was nothing similliar to this in the Visual Editor. Would you mind taking a look and explaining me how i can add/edit the Region Code. MS242 (talk) 22:02, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

The Template used by This Page is not Template:Infobox German place it is Vorlage:Infobox Gemeinde in Deutschland [5]. Your linked Template is the english (possibly) extended version. MS242 (talk) 22:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, already tired :). Its just another version, not the english one.MS242 (talk) 22:16, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

@MS242: You twice linked Krailling in the English Wikipedia. That page uses Template:Infobox German place. Are you now saying it is actually de:Krailling in the German Wikipedia you want to edit? This is a help page for the English Wikipedia. Wikipedia languages often have different templates with different parameters and functionality. We occasionally try to answer questions about other Wikipedia languages to be helpful but then you must make it clear which language and article you are asking about, and it's better to ask at a help page in that language. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:25, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Hello, sorry about that. I linked it over the Searchbar function not thinking it would be showing the english Version. Would you mind linking me the german help page because i cant seem to find it. Thanks for your help MS242 (talk) 06:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@MS242: This page is at the English Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org so normal wikilinks stay here. The German Wikipedia is at de.wikipedia.org. Click "languages" at the top right of this page and then "Deutsch" to get the German version of this page de:Wikipedia:Fragen zur Wikipedia. It works the same for articles and help pages when there is a version in another language. I took a look. If you click the Edit tab at top of a page then the bottom shows a list of transcluded pages, "Folgende Vorlagen werden von diesem Artikel verwendet" in German. de:Krailling uses de:Vorlage:Infobox Gemeinde in Deutschland which uses data in de:Vorlage:Metadaten Kfz-Kennzeichen DE which says:

| 09188 = STA, [[Liste aller deutschen Kfz-Kennzeichen mit einer Gebietseinteilung#WOR|WOR]] <!-- Landkreis Starnberg-->

You didn't say which link you want to make but I note that STA does not have an entry in de:Liste aller deutschen Kfz-Kennzeichen mit einer Gebietseinteilung. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter Ok, Thank you. I just didn't understand that the Regional Code was linked in the Metadata instead of just in the Site. My Mistake for linking the English Version Instead of the Version i wanted to edit.

I have added "STA" to de:Liste aller deutschen Kfz-Kennzeichen mit einer Gebietseinteilung. and also edited the Metadata. Thank you MS242 (talk) 15:44, 2 February 2024 (UTC)