Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 October 30

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October 30

Clarification on QML Terminology

Hi Wikipedia Team, I hope this message finds you well. The terminology used for QML in the documentation. QML is often referred to as "Qt Meta-object Language" rather than "Qt Modeling Language," as it utilizes the Meta Object Compiler (MOC) for object handling and GUI development. This distinction is important for accurately representing its functionality and role within the Qt framework. I believe updating the terminology to reflect this would provide greater clarity for users and developers referencing the documentation. 180.151.40.106 (talk) 04:57, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

The best place for pointing this out would be Talk:QML. -- Hoary (talk) 07:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Do “anonymous experts” in non-political news affect credibility?

As a user without much editing experience, I have some questions about some of the media reports I usually read. I believe users here have a lot of experience in distinguishing the credibility of sources, so I'm writing here and asking for guidance. I personally find it difficult to tell whether the words of these anonymous experts are credible. Relatively speaking, it is very common and understandable for experts in political news, or insiders, to choose anonymity, because doing so may cause them a lot of trouble. But in contrast to these contents, in some social, climate, and economic reports, experts who express their views or opinions are also unsigned.

From my daily reading experience, in social news, for example, 1 mentioned that "some experts said"; 2, gave an "expert's" nickname on twitter, which is also equivalent to anonymous; 3 only mentions "experts who specialize in urban flooding" without mentioning names. In other stories, unnamed experts are used to presuppose the discussion, such as an article on human health, 4 which mentions "Every few months the same comment ismade by experts 'BMI is flawed'. "

I would also like to ask you how to judge whether the information is worth quoting or not when encountering such a situation. Thanks a lot.--HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 07:18, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Generally speaking, don't use 'social news' sources at all. Reliable news sources can be useful in certain circumstances, but they should always have a byline saying who wrote the article, an editorial process etc. But for subjects where they need to refer to 'experts', don't use a news source - go to proper academic sources. Girth Summit _(blether) 07:25, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Girth Summit,Thank you very much for your answer, which made me realize the importance of academic sources. Maybe I should really try to be more academic and avoid these seemingly unreliable social sources as soon as possible.--HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 01:52, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

HelenAtkinson2002, your last example is from medicalnewstoday.com and is about a medical issue. Very rightly, en:Wikipedia has particularly high standards for the sourcing of medical material. Please read and digest Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine). A search in WP:RSN for "medical news today" brought this three-year-old discussion, which didn't really have a conclusion but seems to me to tending towards "Not good enough for some purposes; probably good enough for others". If you were thinking of citing the website somewhere, you'd be wise to ask at WP:RSN about the wisdom of doing so, specifying the precise page within medicalnewstoday.com you wanted to cite, the en:Wikipedia article in which you were thinking of citing it, and the assertion(s) for which you were thinking of citing it. -- Hoary (talk) 07:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Hoary, Thank you for reminding me of this page. I never noticed it before. Maybe I should pay more attention to these discussions when I edit articles in the future. I also feel that my personal knowledge, or as a general user, is not qualified to determine the reliability of this medical information. I will be more careful in future editing. Thank you again for your help!--HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 01:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

HelenAtkinson2002, the three examples that you chose seem to be in Chinese not English. It is certainly true that references to reliable Chinese language sources are permitted if English language sources are lacking, but it is also true that the vast majority of English language Wikipedia editors will lack the ability to evaluate the reliability and appropriateness of such sources, even with the assistance of machine translation. And as already pointed out above, medically related content requires especially rigorous evaluation of the cited sources. So, you must make a very convincing case that your references are solid, which is not an easy task in a case like this. Cullen328 (talk) 08:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Cullen328, Thank you very much for your reminder! Unfortunately, my English level is not very good, so I mainly read Chinese sources on a daily basis, and even the entries I edit are subject to this limitation. Maybe I should improve my English level as soon as possible. But I would like to ask you again, how should "a very convincing case" be provided? Thanks a lot.--HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 02:01, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

HelenAtkinson2002, if you cite a source on the English Wikipedia and another editor challenges it, then you must be prepared to convince other editors that it fully complies with the Reliable sources content guideline. If your English is not good, you may want to consider editing in the Wikipedia version of the language you speak best. Cullen328 (talk) 04:02, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Please consider editing the Chinese Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 04:10, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice very much, I took a look at the link you mentioned just now, and some of the media ratings there seem to be somewhat different from what I understand. May I should probably look a little deeper into the reliable sources you mention. As for the Chinese Wikipedia you mentioned...They are arguing all the time...It's noisy just looking at it. Well, thanks a lot again, I will try my best to study how to write good English articles! HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 11:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

HelenAtkinson2002, because English sources are always preferred when they are of equal quality to foreign sources, and because medical topics have a particularly strict threshold for reliability of sources, why not consider non-medical topics for which no English sources exist, or only ones of a quality inferior to Chinese sources on the same topic? If you write about lesser known events in Chinese history, geology, culture, paleontology, language, ethnology, or any other topic that is not well covered in English sources, then you can use Chinese sources to develop your articles. Mathglot (talk) 04:22, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Mathglot, Your suggestion inspired me, thank you very much! I have written some articles about Chinese architecture before, and I will continue to work hard to write articles of this type in the future! Recently, I have also been working hard to learn about reliable sources. Thank you again! HelenAtkinson2002 (talk) 09:46, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

HelenAtkinson2002, that's lovely to hear, and I hope your interest in Chinese architecture results in some expanded coverage for that very valuable topic. Here are some further tips:

• English sourcing first: remember to always check for English sources as well, and use those first *if they are of equal quality to Chinese sources*, but whenever there is little or no coverage in English, by all means use the Chinese sources. One thing that will greatly help our non-Chinese speaking readers and editors, is if you could always translate the titles of the Chinese sources you use into English, and add them to the citation, along with the original Chinese title in the original Chinese (which should follow the real title, whether traditional or simplified).

  Note: You can follow the templated citation examples at citation #1 in the article Pagoda of Monk Wansong, or in the He Lulu citation in Baisigou Square Pagoda; or the plain-text citation (i.e., no template) in the Wang, Qiaolin citation at Pavilion of Prince Teng.

• Avoid duplication: see Category:Architecture in China to find out what articles exist already (or don't exist) in English so you don't waste time reinventing the wheel.
• Find uncovered topics (good encyclopedic topics that have no article in English Wikipedia):
  • Chinese Wikipedia also has an architecture category: it is located at zh:Category:中国建筑. You can search the Chinese category tree, looking for topics in Chinese Wikipedia that we do not yet have in English, and either write them from scratch (English sources first, please!) or translate them into English for use here. Be aware that English Wikipedia has strict sourcing requirements, and existence of an article in Chinese Wikipedia does not automatically mean that it would be accepted here; see Help:Your first article for more about this.
  • There is a great tool that can automatically find articles that exist in Chinese, that do not exist in English Wikipedia. Here are the first 100 articles in Chinese architecture category in Chinese Wikipedia that we do not have here; probably there are some articles there that will interest you.

Good luck, and I would love to hear from you on my Talk page at some later time when you have created an article or two, to see how you are doing. Also, feel free to contact me there if you have any questions. Mathglot (talk) 16:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Choosing a language

Hello, I have tried to find a way to choose a language on the start page, i.e. before I have made a search, but I don't seem to find it. Up till now I have had to make a search in my starting language for a topic that's likely to exist in the desired language and then switch that article to that language, whereupon I can search in the langauge I wanted to search in from the beginning. That's a very roundabout way, and I reckon there must be an easier way that I am missing? Leongut (talk) 10:04, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Leongut. Each language version of Wikipedia is a separate and largely autonomous project, although there are interlanguage links in some cases. The English Wikipedia is not the boss version or the master version. If you want French articles, search the French Wikipedia and if you want German articles, search the German Wikipedia. And so on. Cullen328 (talk) 10:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Leongut, since Wikidata has an item for each article on every language Wikipedia, you might try searching there first. From what I gather about your current methodology, Wikidata seems to have a dedicated function to do the same: search for pages on specific projects at d:Special:ItemByTitle. Folly Mox (talk) 12:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

There's a pretty navigable list of all the Wikipediae in the Wikimedia ecosystem at meta:Wikimedia core free-knowledge projects, if you want to start there instead of here or Wikidata. Folly Mox (talk) 12:18, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Leongut: You didn't say what you mean by "the start page". Please link pages you refer to. The language code for English is en so the English Wikipedia is at https://en.wikipedia.org. Our Main Page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page and all other pages at the English Wikipedia have a search box which searches the English Wikipedia. The language code for Swedish is sv so the Swedish Wikipedia is at https://sv.wikipedia.org, and so on. https://www.wikipedia.org is the front of all Wikipedia languages. It has a language selector in the search box. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Is OP maybe meaning 'switch in chrome/whatever'? Valereee (talk) 13:40, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I guess "switch that article to that language" means they click an interlanguage link on a Wikipedia article in the language they started at. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:59, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh, so 'switch to the article in that language'? Gotcha. Valereee (talk) 14:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Leongut: Perhaps you meant to go to this page that has a dropdown menu (Read Wikipedia in your language) that lets you see all the different language projects on Wikipedia, as PrimeHunter pointed out? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Wow, Cebuano Wikipedia, who knew? Valereee (talk) 15:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Cebuano Wikipedia is the kingdom of bot-translated articles, Valereee. Cullen328 (talk) 17:29, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Question

I have a translation ongoing from Simple English --> English. The simple english page has no references what so ever. I have hence requested speedy deletion for now. Is this required if I am only translating the page? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 14:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Cooldudeseven7:, Wikipedia policies such as Wikipedia:Notability do apply to translated articles. If the article is Golden Edge, you could make it a Wikipedia:Redirect to TelevisaUnivision#Cable. TSventon (talk) 14:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

So, why doesn't the simple english wikipedia XfD it?

Another problem- One entire part of the article, Universalplus, has no reference. (a majority) But it still has a reference. Can I just place the "Unreferenced Section" tag? Instead of deleting the Golden Edge page why dont I just place the tag? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 14:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Why doesn't the simple english wikipedia XfD it? The answer could be that no one has noticed it, or that simple english policies are different.

You can tag Golden Edge as unreferenced, but it would still be unreferenced and a new page patroller or another editor might nominate it for deletion. TSventon (talk) 15:37, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Every language version of Wikipedia is a separate project, with its own policies, procedures, and admins - this is as true of Simple as it is of Arabic.

Few people here are familiar with the policies of any other given Wikipedia, even Simple: you need to ask there about why an article has not been deleted. ColinFine (talk) 17:46, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Alright, thank you. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 17:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Cooldudeseven7, if you translated it into an article here, then per Wikipedia's licensing requirements you *must* use an attribution statement as explained at WP:CWW in your edits. If you didn't know/forgot to do this, then see WP:RIA for how to retrospectively add the required attribution to the English Wikipedia article's history.

One peculiar aspect of attribution is that the original article (on Simple, in this case) may no longer be deleted, because your attribution statement credits the writers of the Simple page, thus it must remain (although it can be moved out of their main space, as long as it is not deleted). If the Simple article does not meet the criteria for main space, what ought to happen to it is fuzzy, but I would move it to a subpage somewhere where it would forever be safe from deletion. Mathglot (talk) 03:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright, whats the template I need to place on the article (if there is one) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 16:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Nevermind, I added the translated page template. But, the article has no references as none were stated on the original page- what should I do if I want to get this page published? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 16:56, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Cooldudeseven7, presumably you are talking about Draft:Golden Edge. The {{translated page}} template that you added there does *not* satisfy the licensing requirement (and also is only for use on the Talk page, not the article itself); I have removed it. Now, since it involves repairing the lack of attribution of an earlier edit, you must follow the wording described at WP:RIA. Mathglot (talk) 17:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright, will see it. Is there any specific template you know of that I should go use specifically ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 20:33, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I added the stuff into the article- please verify if I did it correct ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 20:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Template trouble

The section Contern#Rivers_and_Streams includes a table with 4 templates. The first 3 work fine and when clicking on "show" for the 4th (Schleederbaach) that looks fine, until I try to edit it. The V T E tabs give me Template:River Thames bridges, Template talk:River Thames bridges and Editing Template:River Thames bridges respectively, nothing to do with Schleederbaach at all. The article's edit page looks correct, and the data for the "show" must be somewhere. Any ideas? (I only want to change "Resevoir" to "Reservoir") - Arjayay (talk) 15:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Arjayay: I've fixed the V T E links with this edit. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:36, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks John of Reading - My bad, I was only looking at the article edit page - Arjayay (talk) 15:39, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Bat For Lashes Article

I work for BFL / Natasha's team, and trying to update some incorrect parts of her Wikipedia page. Amends I'm trying to make are: 1. Removing "and the stepdaughter of singer and actress Salma Agha" - her father is divorced from Salma and so Natasha has no family affiliation to the Agha family. 2. Removing "Khan was subject to racial abuse during secondary school due to her Pakistani heritage." - this is incorrect information 3. Addition in Other Projects of "Light Beings" https://batforlashes.fandom.com/wiki/Light_Beings 4. Addition in Other Projects of the film "The Dream of Delphi - A New Transmission" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt32535994/ 5. Amending currently status to: "After 6 years living in Los Angeles, Khan has returned to London with her daughter Delphi" 92.21.195.137 (talk) 16:44, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

It is not a page, its an article. Page is the software construct the article sits on and is the internal name the WMF uses for the thing. Don't use any of these for references. They are not reliable sources. scope_creep^Talk 16:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

It's an article. It's a page. Let's not hector people, especially when they arrive to politely make requests. -- Hoary (talk) 20:29, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

IMDB and Fandom are user-generated sources and considered unreliable for Wikipedia's sake. Therefore, they cannot be included as references. If there is third-party reporting in secondary sources, you can use those. As you have a conflict of interest as a paid editor, you are strongly advised 'not to edit the article directly - instead use the talk page Talk:Bat For Lashes to request the inclusion or change of any information. Unsourced assertions, such as claim number 2 you are trying to change, will be reverted unless they are cited to a reliable source, as will those to unreliable user-generated sources. Departure– (talk) 16:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes. If you a coi, declare per WP:DISCLOSE. If you do have a coi, then use the Wikipedia:Edit requests mechanism to request edits on the talk page of the article. An uninvolved editor will come by, look at them and if they are good, add them to the article. scope_creep^Talk 17:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Process

Hi Folks!! What is the process for editor who have an article on Wikipedia have done particular work on Wikipedia and want to mention in their own article. It was mentioned in the article via a wikipedia reference, which would normally be illegal and I removed it. How would that work normally be referenced in light of fact that it is unlikely somebody externally is going to write about it. What is the process there. Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 16:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

A conflict of interest? 2601AC47 (talk) 16:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

If secondary sourcing details that person's work on Wikipedia, it can be added. I strongly advise against using Wikipedia to back up any claim, even one directly concerned with one's edits to the platform. Departure– (talk) 16:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

How Do I Get a Wikipedia Profile

How do one go about getting a Wikipedia profile. 2603:7000:9F00:1E46:9C22:B0F:68D5:E313 (talk) 17:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Special:CreateAccount. Departure– (talk) 17:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not have profiles.

If you mean "an account" (from which you can edit most articlezs) see the link from Departure.

If you mean "an article about you", please read an article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing. An article about you, whoever writes it, will not belong to you, will not be controlled by you, will not necessarily say what you would like it to say, may be edited by almost anybody in the world except you and your associates, and should be based almost entirely on what people wholly unconnected with you have published about you, not on what you or your associates say or want to say.

And writing about yourself is very strongly discouraged. ColinFine (talk) 18:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Greetings, and welcome. To answer a question with a question, what do you mean by "profile"? Wikipedia does not have profiles. If you mean a user page, once you create an account, you are free to create a user page for yourself, but this is intended for you to provide information about yourself as a Wikipedia editor--it is not intended to serve as a more general social media profile, as that is not what Wikipedia is for.

If you were meaning an article, then what is required is that the subject of the article meet our standards of notability, which in turn means that they have received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which summarizes reliable secondary sources, so without these sources, there is literally nothing upon which a proper encyclopedia article can be based. If you're were referring to an article about yourself, it's highly unlikely that you meet that standard, as is the case for most people--I certainly don't qualify for an article, and I hope I never do.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask further questions. --Finngall ^talk 18:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

IRK

What are the details of prohets Muhammad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.231.206.81 (talk) 20:04, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Not exactly sure what you mean by "details", but in any case, see the talk page for reasons about that. 2601AC47 (talk) 20:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

You can find all the details you could possibly want at Muhammad. Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:09, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

What happened to the "expand all" button?

I know about the setting on mobile, but on desktop there used to be a button in the sidebar that expanded all the sections in an article, until it disappeared one day. Was it something I did, or is it gone for everyone? TheLegendofGanon (talk) 22:08, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Can't say I remember that but it was probably a result of a WP:SKIN change. You can go back to older ones if you prefer. (I'm using an old one right now, I'm just more familiar with the layout) Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 22:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I found it. Turns out I had inadvertently moved the tool section off of the sidebar. TheLegendofGanon (talk) 14:03, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Regarding Module sandbox creation

How to create a Module:Sandbox/User name? பொதுஉதவி (talk) 23:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

You already should know: Module:Sandbox. 2601AC47 (talk) 23:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @பொதுஉதவி. I've just replied to nearly the same question on the Teahouse. Please don't ask the same question in multiple places (unless you are specifically advised to - I suggested you ask at WT:Lua). ColinFine (talk) 17:09, 31 October 2024 (UTC)