Wikipedia:Notability/Noticeboard/Archive 13

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Arjun Shesherao Lande pronunciation (born 05 Jun 1989),

Arjun Shesherao Lande (born 05 jun 1989),he is maharashtrian & he know Marathi,Hind & English — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arjunlande (talk • contribs) 15:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Awet Gebremedhin known as (Yoshi Gebre) Born December 2 1993

Awet Gebremedhin was born in Adigret Ethiopia to a family of Shawol Tesfaledt and Yirgalem Woldegebriel. Yoshi was raised by his grandparents. His parents vanished to unknown country. Yoshi started playing soccer at a young age. He played street soccer with his friend back in Ethiopia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yoshi 21 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposal of Page... is it suitable.

I would like to suggest a page gathering a list of indigenous, native and or nomadic (minority) peoples who are presently oppressed or subject to attempted genocides or ethnic cleansings. Tamil, Rapanui, Tibetan all come to mind with references available on BBC or ITN news archives. Of course there are plenty more. I know not of where else such a list does exist if indeed it could be listed elsewhere and read by any who need to. For the sake of balance and wikipedias unique and admirable stance on non bias both Isreal and Palestine should be on the list.

However as its my 1st ever suggestion of a page I really dont know if its suitable. I hope it is. Maybe some people would compile a list of historically oppressed indigenous, native and or nomadic peoples whoever I fear that would be exhaustive (just saw indigenous peoples page, thats what I call exhaustive, so the groundwork has been done and there are dozens of stubs waiting to be created!!!) Wikipedia must surely then warrant a list of indigenous, native and or nomadic peoples who been proved to be have been wiped out, which it does in even more exhaustive fashion.

I would argue that a list of extinct tribes and peoples is a must. Is it not apolitical to list tribes in danger of the same fate today?

But like I said its all down to weather its suitable to be included in an encyclopaedia, and if I have searched enough permutations of words!

Thank You for reading my proposal. Mr Pete H. Shuttleworth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.91.27 (talk) 09:54, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

War of the Worlds - The True Story

This was merged into H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds (2005 film) following an AfD due to notability problems. Now. with reviews in LA Times, Hollywood Reporter, and one other, and eligibility for nomination for the Oscars, this seems to meet notability requirements as a standalone article, but I'd like it to be AfD-proof. Discuss? --Lexein (talk) 16:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, nothing is truly AFD-proof, but I suggest that you be bold and draft an article with reliable sources and clearly defined notability and offer it for review. Andrew (talk) 08:14, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Help with an AfD discussion?

I'm writing here because there's an article currently up for discussion that meets notability guidelines, but the rationale is a little off in my opinion. (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Top 2000) The Top 2000 looks to be a popular and notable radio program. The notability isn't really being questioned by the nominator, but what they are questioning is whether or not something that is only notable to Dutch people should be included in the English Wikipedia. I say yes, because if it passes notability guidelines then it should be added and kept. He's saying no, that the article on the Dutch Wikipedia (ie, not in English) is enough since only Dutch people would presumably look it up. I feel that I'm in the right, but I thought I'd come here to ask to make sure.Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 08:10, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

• I answered there. I opened a related thread a couple of month ago on Village Pump (policy), I can di it out if needed. The point was that somebody AfDed an article with sources, claiming that if sources are not in English, they can not be reliable since the majority of readers can not understand them. The general consensus was is that this reasoning is false and goes counter to the policies. The nomination was withdrawn then.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:32, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

This AfD has got absolutely nothing to do with the language of the sources. Bazonka (talk) 19:08, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, to some extent it does. If this would be an Australian or Irish show, I guess the result would be snow keep.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:22, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

National Honor Society entirely based on primary sources

Resolved

The National Honor Society article seems to be constructed from pages from its own website, namely the about and brochure pages (see WP:PRIMARY). There are definitely some independent newspaper sources, but I am not sure if there are enough comprehensive articles to make this notable. This might be something simply worth including as part of the honor society article, but as it stands this needs more opinion first. I do not believe deletion is necessary, so major questions are: (1) Is this notable enough to deserve its own article based on available sources? and (2) if not, does it deserve an elaboration in the honor society article as a median? RAN1 (talk) 00:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

P.S.: Adding WP:CLUB for reference. RAN1 (talk) 01:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain the NHS is notable enough; it's one of, if not THE, largest honor societies for high school students in America, Google Scholar turns up high quality sources dating back to the 1930s. Here is a good book source. Please note that notability is applied to the subject and not to the Wikipedia article. The current Wikipedia article is about a notable subject, but should be expanded with information from more sources. This isn't a notability problem, it's an article quality problem. --Jayron32 04:06, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Alrighty then, thanks for the help! RAN1 (talk) 01:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Stuart Firestein

Resolved

Hi,

I would appreciate an opinion about notability issue on this page.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:26, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Lizabeth Zindel

Notability of Giacomo Mantovani

Despite being well written and formatted, the article on young film maker Giacomo Mantovani appears to be slightly autopromotional. Here are the guidelines on creative professional biographies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Creative_professionals . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.25.249 (talk) 15:13, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done Seems fine to me. Perhaps the second paragraph could use a bit of reworking but overall I see no blatant puffery. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 02:48, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Ty Poeth Estate

Ty Poeth Cemmaes Machynlleth Powys SY 20 9AA Mid Wales

Ty Poeth means The Hot House in Welsh. Please see:[http://freespace.virgin.net/bob.hall/content/welsh.htm

The Farmhouse, the beginning. The original Ty Poeth farm can be seen in the above picture when entering the drive on the left hand side, tucked into the hillside which dates back four hundred years. Two sons in the family had a falling out and one of them moved to the current site of Ty Poeth and built a farmhouse, which is still part of the present day Ty Poeth. (This can be seen at the center of the group of cottages). The Barn was the only building existing before the farmhouse.

The Gallery Extension He started his own family and in time built on to the house a barn, now known as the Gallery.

The passageway of which, used to go from the bottom of the staircase in the Farmhouse and came up into the Gallery where the bathroom is today. The conservatory on the Gallery was an opening for a horse and cart to drive in and unload hay into the loft which is now the bedroom.

New Owners and servants The Pool and Grove cottages were used as servant’s quarters; the new owner, Mr. Humphries and his family needed more help in running the now large house. Pool cottage, also had an opening in the sitting room for a horse and carriage. The servants lived upstairs, while the livestock lived downstairs with the luxury of a fire to keep them warm. They would also have housed coal and other household supplies for the rest of the house. The family was the first in the Machynlleth area to a have car and telephone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machynlleth

The Garden Mr. Humphries, a wealthy man, bought the house and land over a hundred years ago, created the garden that we know today. His business took him all over the world and while doing so brought back many plants from South Africa, America and Europe. You will see these varieties of plants and flowering bushes in the garden, some are rare and the only ones in the whole area. For example, the large scented rhododendron tree by the Grove Cottage has wonderful large trumpet like pink flowers in summer and the aroma permeates the whole garden. It is the only scented one of it kind in this part of the country.

The largest tree in the garden is the Wellingtonia, brought back from Canada, is situated on the bottom lawn by the Pool and Grove cottages. Standing at over 100 feet, it stretches high above the two cottages. In the 1980’s, unbeknown to us, it was struck by lightening and the top section for the tree died, losing all its pine needles. We thought the tree was dying, until two years later, growth started once again around the damaged part. If you look closely you can still see the dead section at the top.

The Garden was literally cut out of the side of the mountain and terraced with miles of walls. There was not a stone to be found on the ground or in the earth, so all the granite stone had to be brought up to the site by hand from miles around. One hundred horse drawn carts of stone, made the journey up to Ty Poeth to finish off this amazing feat of engineering. You can see this clearly on the Fern Terrace. The entrance to the terrace is by the Ivy Tree, at Pool Cottage.

Edwardian and 1930’s The Edwardian house was built on by Mr. Humphries for his family. His sister had The Hall built, before the Second World War (this is flat roofed section in the front of the main house). It started off as a single floor apartment and then later, another flat was built above to make it a double story building. The small bedroom upstairs used to be the kitchen for the flat, with a metal staircase on the outside wall as an entrance, coming in through where the window is now.

Present day When we arrived in the early 80’s, it was all one house with six staircases, twelve bedrooms, and miles of corridors. My father, Mr. R. A. Gwatkin created the layout of the house as it is today. Bold text — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielgwatkin (talk • contribs) 03:39, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello. I re-formatted your comment. Help us out here - are you asking if this content merits inclusion, if it is notable enough to have an article? If so, can you provide more specific sources as to the history of the property? Links, books, etc. Anything will help. Thank you! §FreeRangeFrog^croak 02:44, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Frances Seymour

Can anyone help by looking at this article? It seems non-notable, but I think there might be something there. Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 19:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I think AFD is handling this topic well. Andrew³²⁷ 19:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

William Cabulo

William Francisco Cabulo (born 4 May 1993) is an English footballer who plays for Manchester city as a striker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billydakid 26 (talk • contribs) 00:30, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Lucien Smith (attorney)

Is this fellow considered notable? I'm new here but . . ..... it seems to me that he is not so notable, the history reveals mostly red link editors, to me always suspect. Should I post there that I posted here? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 00:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

He seems borderline non-notable, at least according to what's in the article right now. It's possibly worthwhile to take it to WP:AFD, just make sure you do your homework first. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 02:37, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, I have more pressing wikihomework than this . . . . . . . ........... Republican. I just stumbled across him and was not impressed. Carptrash (talk) 02:42, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

US Supreme Court Cases

I recently spent an hour trying to decipher the decision of the US Supreme Court in the case Rhodes v. Chapman. I have only one reference the decision which is on http:/www.supreme.justia.com and several small mentions of it from other sources but by no means nothing major. I believe that some students in certain classes are required to study it as there seems to be a lot of questions about it from students. Thus I have to questions, I know that no article is de-facto notable, but are Supreme Court Cases considered notable due to the sheer amount of cases that the court takes up unlike US law where legislation only requires a majority vote? and my second question is, Is Rhodes v. Chapman notable enough to have it's own article? I wish to create this article because I do not want the next person who looks for it must go through the pages of legal text to find out what the court ruled, what it thought, and why. (The court ruled that uncomfortable prison conditions are not unconstitutional). I wish to make this information easier to access and was seeking guidance on it. Currently it does not have it's own page but is listed here List of United States Supreme Court cases, volume 452. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stargate404 (talk • contribs) 06:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

What sort of reliable commentary can you find on the case? In my mind, in order to justify creating an article about a court case, there would need to be some analysis or commentary which exists about the case itself. Otherwise, the entirety of the text of the Wikipedia article would be merely the text of the court decision and nothing else; something which would be more suited to Wikisource, but wouldn't be an encyclopedia article. No source material = nothing to write. If you have source material, then you have an article. If not, then you don't. It should be as simple as that. --Jayron32 16:11, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Paul Savramis

About an hour ago, this article that was removed through prod was recreated. More eyes are needed on this. Candidate for re-prodding or perhaps AfD. Qworty (talk) 02:56, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

• Another editor has now nominated the article for deletion. Qworty (talk) 18:55, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

UFC 18

There are a number of UFC articles tagged for notability. Do they meet the guidelines for inclusion? Thanks in advance, Boleyn (talk) 16:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Angelo Antonio Toriello

This person's bio is up for deletion. Myself and the nominator are finding it extremely difficult to source what's there, and the article creator isn't helping much either. I am not canvassing in either direction, but I would be grateful if we could get some more eyes on this if someone has time. Keep or delete, either way, but it would help enormously if we can determine with more certainty which one is appropriate. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 17:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

how much is too much

This is not a dispute, just a request for opinions and guidance. I sometimes am involved in bringing articles over from the French Wikipedia. I have a couple underway right now which are extremely long on the French side, with numerous subsidiary articles. Let's take Chantilly, Oise as an example. There is no question that it's notable. There's a huge château, half the town is historic monuments, there's a song about it, and a dessert named after it. There's a very old and famous racecourse that hasn't made it into the English article at all so far.

Here's my question though. I have brought over a lot of the history. The English article currently says the economy is mostly tourism, which is plain wrong as it overlooks the racetrack, horsebreeding etc as well as the fact that this is an upscale bedroom community for Paris. So I should bring that over too. But what about discussions of the population distribution and of various municipal codes and of the public-housing project on the north end of town? These are all recorded in loving detail. Bus schedules and road construction. I am exaggerating only very slightly.

So, bottom line, my question is whether something that is very notable in France is medium-notable in English, or vice-versa. I considered whether I am just feeling overwhelmed by the size of the article, but I don't think so. I am pretty ok with doing as much as I do and if I don't finish leaving it on the list of articles needing translation. I'd just like to hear some opinons about what finish means in this context, as I may not be totally objective. I used to live in this town. However, I have also wondered the similar things about other articles, such as Notre-Dame de la Garde. Elinruby (talk) 20:14, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

No, something or someone that is notable anywhere is notable, period. The notability guidelines are not culture- or country-specific. The only problem is that sometimes it's difficult to determine notability because the available sources are in a language other than English. And in this case specifically, we consider most geographical locations ('places') to be inherently notable in most cases (with few exceptions). As long as the information maintains NPOV and is correctly sourced, edit away. No one is going to delete an article about an inhabited location in France. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 20:26, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Sources in article Garadaghly Massacre

The article Garadaghly Massacre has 18 references but 16 out of this 18 references are Azerbaijani, which means partisan, sources and some are even dead links. Is this notable? The creator of the article user Angel670 has already been informed about this issue on the talk page but finds the article notable as it is. --Markus2685 (talk) 17:15, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I am seeing no English sources, which is odd for something that happened 21 years ago. Even if it were a 'minor' event (if deaths can ever be that), there would be at least a few mentions and references here and there. I am finding absolutely nothing. You might want to try and take it to AFD; while I don't ever recommend proposing something for deletion just to find information about it, I do believe there's an issue here with notability, and maybe even existence. Bringing it to AFD might bring some people out of the woodwork with sources or valid arguments as to the merits for its inclusion; worst case scenario is we delete it because it did not merit inclusion. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 00:45, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

I have just discovered that the article was nominated for deletion on 25 February 2012. The result of the discussion was no consensus. I find this very odd as the article is obviously based only on partisan sources, as said 16 out of the 18 references are Azerbaijani sources or dead links. I therefore find the result of AFD debate inexplicable. --Markus2685 (talk) 16:44, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Even dismissing the invalid 'keep per X' and 'I like it' !votes, that certainly is a no-consensus close. I can't see the deleted version, but I'd guess by the comments that it suffered from the same issues - all the sources are Azeri. Like I said, I'm actually quite surprised that there is basically nothing out there in English about this. No book hits, nothing. Maybe it would be worthwhile to take it to AFD again and see if there is consensus. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 22:40, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. As I am not very familiar with the procedure of taking an artcile to AFD and don't want to do something wrong or break something, are you willing to do so? That would be great! --Markus2685 (talk) 16:56, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I am a bit concerned by the knee-jerk assumption that an Azerbaijani language source is automatically biased. Is there perhaps some counter-bias going on? Blueboar (talk) 17:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Some Wikipedia guidlines:

- Sources, for notability purposes, should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability.

- Material based purely on primary sources should be avoided

- The common theme in the notability guidelines is that there must be verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability

the article Garadaghly Massacre is overwhelmingly based on primary sources and non-objective evidence--Markus2685 (talk) 18:49, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

I have taken the article to AFD (see link)--Markus2685 (talk) 01:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Johanna Zorn

Can someone with an expertise in notability please look at Johanna Zorn to determine if you think she's notable. If it is not notable, can you pursue whatever steps are necessary to have it considered for deletion? The only source it had was a now-dead direct link to her biography on an employer's website; the link was also the only external link. The article had some other problems that I cleaned up, but I'd rather leave the notability issue to editors who are very experienced in that area. Thanks. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 13:46, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I added a PROD tag. In a week, if no one objects, it will be deleted. --Jayron32 13:58, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your quick help. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 14:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Historical founders of organizations

Regarding Robertson Howard, I would like to know if he meets WP:GNG. He is one of the co-founders of a frat Pi Kappa Alpha The article contains information about his life sourced entirely from frat's own materials and disreputable WP:USERG derived findagrave.com source. Under the concept that notability is not inherent and the lacking results from Google News and Google Scholars, I don't find that this person and any other founders of organizations who lack third party discussions meet general notability. Please adviseCantaloupe2 (talk) 00:39, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

If the subject is not notable independent of the organization he/she is connected to, the article (at an AfD) is often deleted, or if the subject has sufficient weight to have content in the organization's history than the content is summarized, merge, and a redirect is left in the article space.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:41, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Eric Zorn

Here's one more I just noticed. Eric Zorn is the husband of Johanna Zorn (see above thread). I noticed that the same editor, 67.167.120.201, created both articles on the same day. Eric Zorn's article also has no reliable sources; just six cites to newspapers articles he (Zorn) wrote and some direct links to his blog and podcast. The article sort of looks like a fan page. Can you determine if this article should be deleted? Thanks. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 14:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind. A great editor did a wonderful job in establishing notability and overhauling the article. --76.189.109.147 (talk) 09:14, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Nikki Phoenix

A bio I found during NPP that I PRODed after determining it fails WP:PORNBIO. Since then some more sources have been added, including an appearance on the Maury Povich show and a mention in Penthouse. The article's creator posted in my talk page explaining that he feels the subject meets criteria #3 (Has been featured multiple times in notable mainstream media). I don't think that's the case, but I would appreciate if someone has a few minutes to look it over and see if indeed that's the case. I am not at all familiar with porn actors, but there should be some basic notability here which I feel is lacking. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 20:11, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi everyone, I appreciate everyone's feedback, I have been adding more and more references that I continue linking, in particular, references not only to her appearance in Mainstream Films (21 and over), TV (Maury Show) and Print credits (Penthouse), but also references in Las Vegas Sun, Las Vegas Weekly, Getty Images and other mainstream news sources covering her specifically.... which to me falls under the mainstream media paragraph. In addition, her appearance on behalf of the MGM billboard ad campaign, a first ever from that company, and it's coverage in both AVN and XBIZ news, both adult industry news sources would indicate to me that she more than qualifies under paragraph 3, not withstanding her other credits. I'll continue to add more links but like any page, this would take more than just 24hrs. Thanks again to everyone for all your feedback Art javier (talk) 20:36, 26 January 2013 (UTC)art_javier

Notability of landfills?

Ran across this article specifically -- Hinton Landfill -- which I'm sure is non-notable, but I wonder what qualifies a notable landfills, e.g. here at Landfills in the United States#List of notable landfills. Woodshed (talk) 02:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

I'd apply the general notability guideline. For example, Puente Hills Landfill (my personal favorite landfill) has been featured in documentaries as well as many long newspaper articles - in other words, it's received "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Hinton Landfill looks like it hasn't been the subject of significant coverage (according to a quick Google News archive search), so I think it'd be appropriate to merge that article into the article for the city that owns it (and also the article for the city where it's located?). Dreamyshade (talk) 03:36, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, WP:GNG applies to landfills and Hinton does not appear to be notable. Andrew³²⁷ 16:02, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

AfD

I've started an AfD, which for reasons I've explained on that page is in need of as many reviews and replies as possible, so please take a look and review it.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 21:19, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Manvill jeane .A was born on 09/10/1988 and completed the B.com degree in jain college in bangalore — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manvill jeane (talk • contribs) 15:05, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

ddh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.110.247.226 (talk) 17:31, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Tanaza

Tanaza (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

This was speedied before as G11 (advertisement). The content was userified where the author expanded the draft, and subsequently commented on my talk page seeking my opinion on his sources and whether or not the subject met WP:CORP. I feel that it does not but I would appreciate if someone has a minute or two to look at this. Basically the only assertion to notability is sourced to a claim on a patent, and I explained to the author that, beyond the issue of a self-published source, patents and trademarks do not (usually) confer notability. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 18:50, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

The 'note-worthiness' of feminism.

Please note the discussion about Kayden Kross in the Wiki Project Feminism. The Vintage Feminist (talk) 03:16, 1 February 2013 (UTC) The Vintage Feminist

Habilian Association and Press TV

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Habilian Association is being nominated for deletion solely because it is claimed there are no sources reliable to establish the notability of this organization. This is supposedly an NGO set up to honor the victims of terrorism in Iran, but opposition groups research has established it as a Iranian front for its MOIS intelligence agency to discredit the MEK dissident movement. This brings up the question of whether it is appropriate to delete subjects simply because most of their contributions or coverage are on Iran or Russian controlled news agencies that have been accused of being unreliable sources that promote conspiracy theories. How is it that BBC, CNN and Fox news, which are accused of spreading disinformation and lies by Iran and Russia are RS, but PressTV cannot be used to establish the notability even of Iranian organizations or their own contributors?

The news organziations and authors either promoting or condemning HA are: National Council of Resistance of IRan, Iran Policy Committee, stopfundamentalism.com, accessmylibrary.com, BBC CNN, Federation of American Scientists, Islamic Republic News Agency, Mehr News Agency, Veterans Today Mark Dankof, UglyTruthPodcast, Fars News Agency, Tehran Times, wikileaks, Kourosh Ziabari, Franklin Lamb, Stephen Lendman, iran-interlink.org, Irandidban, uprootedpalestinian, OpedNews, terror-victims.com, irannewpearlharbor, themadjewess.com, shoah.org.uk. Most of these seem to have some sort of connection to Iran, possibly to the same MOIS which may be the source of many conspiracy theories such as 9-11, holocaust denial, and more recently Sandy Hook which PressTV has used Veterans Today as a source to charge that Israel attacked Sandy Hook.

I don't understand how it can be asserted that every single one of these groups, many of which are themselves notable enough to have wikipedia articles, or have already been cited as WP:RS citation, is not valid enough to establish notability. I propose that any major contributor to any major government-controlled news agency is notable, no matter how unreliable the information may be that they promote. People like David Duke, Alex Jones and James Fetzer are very notable, even if they promote unreliable theories.

Iran resistance groups

• National Council of Resistance of Iran Foreign Affairs Committee of the
• Iran Policy Committee (IPC) 5 December 2010 Public Data to Complement Classified Intelligence—Assessing the Credibility of Sources about Alleged Terrorist Activities of the Mujahedeen-e-Khalq (MEK)/People’s Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI) Raymond Tanter, President Iran Policy Committee (IPC)
• stopfundamentalism.com Why does Iran Ache For Camp Ashraf Destruction? * › News › IraqShareApr 19, 2011 – In a letter to Nuri al-Maliki by an Iranian Habilian Association, Fars News Agency on 9 April 2011, described the attack as, “A brave action that ...

Mainstream media and organizations

• [BBC] considers IRNA a reliable government international report: Delisting MKO from terror list part of US "Iran campaign" - NGO chief. BBC Monitoring International Reports Text of report in English by Iranian official government news agency IRNA website Secretary-General of the Habilian Association (families of Iranian terror victims) Mohammad Javad Hasheminezhad said on Tuesday [30 October] that the US decision to delist Mojahedin Khalq Organization from the global terrorists is in line with Washington's Iran campaign.
• CNN [http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-698021 .. out by a Ministry of Intelligence (MOIS) branch called the Habilian Association, led by a known Iranian regime henchmen ...
• Federation of American Scientists [www.fas.org/irp/world/iran/mois-loc.pdf Iran's Ministry of Intelligence and Security: A Profile ]

Official Iranian News Agencies and affliated, with links to agencies with wikipedia articles

• [IRNA]
• Mehr News Agency www.irandidban.com/master-e.asp?ID=13687ShareIn an interview with Mehr News in Mashhad, Habilian Association's Executive Director, Mohammed Sanavi said: "The convention was mainly aimed at ...
• Mark Dankof ugly truth broadcast PressTV contributor
• Veterans Today The menacing plots of MKO terrorists for Iran. VT is another outlet for Iran's news agencies
• PressTV - Two MKO battalions fuelling unrest in Syria: Report Director of the Habilian Association Seyyed Mohammad Javad Hasheminejad told Fars News Agency on Sunday th
• Mark Dankof's Conversation with Iran's Habilian Association: Latest ...
• Fars News Agency: Victims of Terrorism Blast MKO Leader's ...
• Tehran Times www.tehrantimes.com TEHRAN – Interpol has issued arrest warrants for 12 leaders of the terrorist Mojahedin Khalq Organization, the Habilian Association website ..
• wikileaks http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/815300_irn-iran-middle-east-.html Right Group Urges Expulsion of MKO Members from IraqTEHRAN (FNA)-
• Kourosh Ziabari (deleted as "not notable") Evidently spokesman for Ahmadinejad regime (PressTV, Veterans Today Iran) - The menacing plots of Mujahedin-e Khalq ...
• Franklin Lamb (deleted as "not notable") Hezbollah spokesman, PressTV and counterpunch contributor The Menacing Plots of the MKO
• Stephen Lendman (Veterans Today, PressTV contributor deleted and prevented from creation as not notable) evidently pro-Iran, Press TV reported that the Habilian Association human rights ...
• iran-interlink.org (MOIS)
• Irandidban site| (MOIS) Habilian S.G.: MKO members forced to start relocation

Note the pattern of deletion of people who are major contributors to Iranian (PressTV), Russian (RussiaToday) or pro-Iranian news agencies as "not notable"

pro-Iranian news sites with wikipedia articles

• www.counterpunch.org The Menacing Plots of the MKO

pro-Iranian news sites already being used as RS references in Wikipedia or with articles

• Israel–Pakistan relations References: http://uprootedpalestinians. blogspot. com/2012/08/pakistani-pilots-who-shot-down-10. html . http://www. paf. gov. pk/air_warriors. Press TV reported that the Habilian Association human rights
• OpedNews Press TV reported that the Habilian Association human rights group said: "We have conclusive proof and documents showing that the MKO (Mujahedlin-e Organization) has a strong and significant presence in Syria."

pro-Iranian news sites that appear to be controlled by Iranian department of disinformation of MOIS

• terror-victims.com
• /almasakinnewsagency.wordpress.com
• irannewpearlharbour.wordpress.com/.../mark-dankofs-convers...Mar 3, 2012 – The Iran-based Habilian Association renews its conversation with American populist Right commentatorMark Dankof on the ...

english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107125214Dec 8, 2012 – The Habilian Association, a human rights group formed of the families of 17,000 Iranian terror victims, sent a letter of protest to the French ...

• themadjewess.com/.../obama-starts-war-with-syria-china-russia...ShareJun 11, 2012 – Director of the Habilian Association Seyyed Mohammad Javad Hasheminejad told Fars News Agency on Sunday that MKO terrorists, grouped ..
• SHOAH
• www.iran-si.com/vdccaxqs82bqe.y-2.htmlBy Habilian Association. MEK conducting special ops inside Syria. nejatngo.org, August 09 2012. Story Code: 160. While the anti-Assad rebels in Syria are

How in the world can an organization get so much coverage on the internet by pro-IRan and anti-regime groups and be considered non-notable by WP???? How can any organization supported by the Iranian government and Iranian media and pro-Iranian media not be considered RS for the existence of an organization that is thought to be a clandestine operation of the Iranian government? Redhanker (talk) 12:48, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

The Courtesans

• The Courtesans (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Lstudholme (talk · contribs)

I recall running across this yesterday, in pretty much the same form. It's now been recreated, so I take it this was speedy deleted in the interim. If so, what were the criteria, and would speedy be appropriate again, perhaps as a non-notable band? Thanks. 99.12.243.171 (talk) 17:00, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Sharon Exley

• Sharon Exley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Peter Exley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

There are several entwined issues here, but I'll lead with the first one I noticed, notability of Sharon Exley. Based on the article's sources, it's the firm, Architecture Is Fun, in which she's a co-founder that has received notice, rather than her individually. If there's a consensus, perhaps a redirect will be advised. Based on the sources provided, Peter Exley appears more likely to meet notability guidelines apart from the firm, yet perhaps that ought to be assessed as well. Complicating the issues are the appearance of WP:COI, at least from Funarchitect (talk · contribs), and possibly from Cabinet of Art and Medicine (talk · contribs), the creators of and primary contributors to the articles. Most recently Funarchitect added identical content to each article re: a co-authored publication whose notability has not been established, and an accompanying image of the book's cover [1], [2]. I read these as promotional edits, removed them and tagged both articles for COI. Cabinet of Art and Medicine restored the content and removed the template from the Peter Exley article [3], [4], without sufficient explanation [5]. I've raised my concerns at both article talk pages, and at Funarchitect's talk page. I've chosen to leave things as they are and seek further input here. 99.12.243.171 (talk) 04:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

anti truecaller

anti truecaller. there is an application named truecaller on which more than 5 million of indian people are registered. this application synchronize the phonebook without the user's permission. and this application is been used at world-wide and this is against the privacy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vipul the rawkstar (talk • contribs) 14:59, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Section deleted from noticeboard

I deleted obvious spam and warned the editor. Andrew³²⁷ 13:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Rhombus (UK band)

• Rhombus (UK band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Is this band notable? Lack of evidence independent of the subject; moreso a publicity document. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SPTurner (talk • contribs) 14:03, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm seeing some reviews of that last album listed in the article, but it's always difficult to tell with bands like these whether the sites are reliable or just glorified fan blogs. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 19:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

World Values Survey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Values_Survey

This article provides no third party sources. All citations and all of the works referenced by this page are publications of either World Values Survey or its members, and the majority are hosted on WVS websites. Most of the links are also broken, so it's impossible to investigate beyond that. A quick Google search also turns up mostly pages from the project's various websites, and few third party references (no substantial ones, at least on the first few pages). Google Scholar does a little better, but the few articles I reviewed are suspiciously glowing in their assessment of WVS, giving me reason to think they may not be truly third party either.

Somewhat more concerning (to me), there is no scholarly criticism of this project presented, despite certain incongruities in the analysis itself. Even if their data supports that analysis, I find it difficult to believe no one would have objected to it, unless the study itself was relatively unknown. All that said, there's a reason I'm putting this on the Notability noticeboard and not somewhere else. In my ignorance, I cannot object to anything about the article except the absence of any third party sources.--Wlerin (talk) 08:12, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Addendum: I have found a few critical articles. I'll continue looking into this when I have the time.--Wlerin (talk) 08:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Scarlett Keeling

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scarlett Keeling. Notability is being questioned as the main reason for deletion. Thoughts?--Canoe1967 (talk) 12:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Is Francium hydroxide notable enough for an article?

A google scholar search yields about 93 results but I am not certain if there is any significant resources within.--Inspector (talk) 09:41, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Los Urbanicos

Jesus Martinez (Born December 13, 1988) is a Puerto Rican reggaeton recording artist. Jesus Martinez, was born and raised in Morovis, Puerto Rico and is artistically known as “J-Dilla”. Luis A. Ferrer-Torres (April 30, 1991) is also a reggaeton recording artist. Luis Ferrer-Torres, was born and raised in Bayamon, Puerto Rico and is artistically known as “Wiche”. They were never friends in Puerto Rico and met later on through the tight and small Puerto Rican community in Indianapolis, IN. Both performers of the Genre of Reggaeton have always shown great interest in this type of music style/culture. J-Dilla’s childhood consisted of dreams and aspiration of one day becoming a professional boxer. J-Dilla a hard working individual in the sport submitted his body into intensive training to accomplish his dream. It wasn’t until he broke his left hand and he saw his dream slip in a blink of an eye. J-Dilla was only 15 when he moved to the United States. J-Dilla then had set his goals to anguish the pain of his defeat and turn to Music. He looked up to his brother Angel Luis Martinez (2nd oldest of four) who at the time was in the Music business in Puerto Rico. J-Dilla lyrical flow and emotions through lyrics will strongly convince you that music is his “Fuerte”. On the other hand, Wiche in his youth was interested in basketball, and aspired to become a NBA player. He was unable to continue this sport when he received an injury to one of his ankles, where the recovering process took more than expected crushing his dreams at a college level and professional level. Wiche then became involved more in music through his brother, Emilio Ferrer-Torres artistically known as Millo. Millo who at the time was involved with “La Nueva Era” and In The House Magazine movement presented Wiche to many managers and built a close relationship with (Ivan Santos currently the manager for J-King y Maximan and Booking manager for Franco “El Gorilla”, Tony Lenta, Kary Hernandez and more). Before J-Dilla and Wiche became a duo they previously have perform in various shows and clubs locally. J-Dilla and Wiche (Los Urbanicos) released their first song, Entre Tu y Yo (2011), gaining local attention in the Latin community of Indianapolis. It wasn’t until May 2012 when Saul Ramirez, manager of Las Americas Entertainment, and Julio Rolon (Dj Rican) thought it would be a great idea if the two teamed up and became a duo. Wiche as a solo artist had opportunities to perform locally and along side his brother in Puerto Rico as an opening act to Tony Lenta and the duo known as “Los Mas Sueltos” Jowell y Randy. J-Dilla on the other hand, has had more exposure as he has had opening acts for Nova y Jory (Kentucky), Bachata Heightz (Indianapolis) and 24 Horas (Indianapolis). As a duo, J-Dilla and Wiche have perform in various clubs and have open up for Plan B “El Duo del Sex” (Indianapolis), Julio Voltio "El Chamako" (Kentucky), Gotay "El Aunthetiko" (Milwaukee, WI) and Tony Dize (Indianapolis, IN). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Losurbanicos (talk • contribs) 06:06, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Gosen (company)

The Gosen (company) article reads like a marketing brochure. Beyond the other obvious problems with this article, should it even have its own article? Gosen doesn't appear to be a major brand or occupy a place in public discussion. This article had been flagged in the past but I don't see any discussion validating its worthiness. If you eliminate the company catalog there would be almost no text remaining. Chris troutman (talk) 01:14, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I just performed a search in a few news databases and couldn't find any notable coverage, just financial reports and the like. Personally I would vote Delete in an AFD discussion. Andrew³²⁷ 04:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

The Cave of Dragonflies?

I'm sure this is not notable (as only 4,571,232 people have seen the main page, about ~6.5% of the world), but I really want to write an article on it. It is a website (link here) and I'm sure nobody wants the page on here. But I do, and it should be informative. Err... it would be okay to reference that page for such an article, right? It is about a personal website, so it should be okay to have sources from that personal website? I could find other sources, too, but they only reference this website (most, at least). It has a lot to be notable about, and like I said, many people go there!! Well, PLEASE RESPOND!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shikku27316 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Okay, sorry, just realised this is not the right page to put this request, but response would still be nice... Shikku27316 (talk) 03:52, 8 March 2013 (UTC) P.S. Sorry for not signing my note earlier! I forgot...

Angie Garcia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• Angie Garcia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Is it me or does this girl spectacularly fail WP:MUSICBIO? All I see are assertions of notability by association, but essentially no solo career, and therefore no merits for inclusion. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 01:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

APRIL2ND

APRIL2ND is a fashion label specializing in ready to wear and bespoke collection. The Label was lunched in September 2012 during the London Fashion Week with Fashion Finest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by APRIL2ND LONDON (talk • contribs) 20:06, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't see enough coverage to satisfy WP:GNG. Andrew³²⁷ 05:09, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

She Dick

I don't know how to re-nominate the band She Dick for deletion. Although the former result from years ago is keep, the sources presented for notability only come from local papers where the band is based (Dallas). The band has not charted, has no reviews, has no awards, and is an "orphan." Burnberrytree (talk) 05:30, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm just commenting on the process here, not on the merits of a nomination. I'd suggest going to Preferences → Gadgets then checking the mark next to Twinkle if you don't have Twinkle enabled already. Then, you will see a twinkle tab on the She Dick page. Choose XFD from there, fill out your rationale, and the program will do the rest of the work. I think you'll need to remove the current AfD notice first. Ryan Vesey 05:34, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - This is a good example of a larger question that needs to be addressed by our notability guidelines... the question of whether local level notability is enough, or whether we require regional/national level notability. (the AFD was quickly closed but, had it been open, I would have said that the sources cited certainly indicate a local level of notability, but not a broader regional/national level of notability.) I have seen this come up in other contexts... so we should probably address it. Blueboar (talk) 15:34, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Andrew Helm

The page Andrew Helm has notability concerns, reads like a resumé and seems promotional. Attempts were made to clean it up a couple of years ago but as of today it has many of the same problems it had to begin with. Added a notability tag, but I'm not too savvy when it comes to Wikipedia and don't know what else to do. Hst20 (talk) 14:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

IDEAlliance on Wikipedia

I would like to post a Wikipedia page for the independent, non-profit standards organization IDEAlliance. IDEAlliance develops standards for commercial printing, distribution, content creation and digital media. Printing industry standards include G7 process control method, GRACoL and SWOP (specifications for web offset printing), which already have their own wikipedia pages, albeit not associated with the organization. IDEAlliance is referenced on those pages. There is also a wikipedia page for Publishing Requirements for Industry Standard Metadata (PRISM), which was also created by IDEAlliance. IDEAlliance also certifies industry experts in print, prepress and publishing areas such as JDF and XML, which also have their own Wikipedia pages. In many ways, IDEAlliance is akin to the International Organization of Standards (ISO). Since this is my first Wikipedia page, I want to be sure that IDEAlliance is an appropriate topic for its own Wikipedia page and perhaps get some guidance about how to craft and format the page. My initial inclination is to focus on IDEAlliance's standards and certifications. I would be grateful for any advice or guidance. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chuckl8899 (talk • contribs) 21:14, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Is Park Circle Film Society notable?

• It holds an annual film festival called Lowcountry Indie Shorts, which is the only fest in South Carolina dedicated to short films. The festival includes regional, national, and international award-winning shorts.
• It sponsored the creation of a feature film, The Georgia Guidestones Movie, which had a limited theatrical and festival release in the US.
• It is one of only two nonprofit art house theaters in South Carolina.
• It receives feature stories in regional print and online newspapers several times per year.
• It is located in Charleston, South Carolina, a city known worldwide for its cultural institutions and festivals.
• It has hosted award-winning filmmakers and notable personalities for post-film panel discussions.
• It seems to fall within the scope of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Film.

I am closely affiliated with the organization, so would not author the article (if it is considered notable enough).

NicholaiBurton (talk) 06:52, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Woodbury Royals Band Boosters: Really notable?

I was browsing WP:User contributions for new accounts when I noticed this article. I clicked on it's link and noticed that it did not appear to match any notability criteria, and did not cite any third party sources. Discuss for deletion? Mathnerd 101 (talk) 01:49, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

J.M. Hoffman

This article didn't cite any sources, and did not indicate why the author or his published material was notable. The only external link is to the author's website. Being a relative newbie, I'm not sure how to proceed with this discussion, especially since it's a biography of a living person. Is it notable? Mathnerd 101 (talk) 18:30, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing the article to our attention. The first step when finding an unsourced article is often a quick Internet search to see if there are good sources. I was able to find enough to justify keeping it, but I rewrote it so it no longer sounds like a press release. I also changed the article for his book into a redirect to his WP:BLP. Just so you know, if a BLP has nothing notable about it, you can use this template to mark it for deletion. Andrew³²⁷ 17:16, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The Linen Memorial

• The Linen Memorial (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Lycia Trouton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The article on the work contains few or no reliable sources, and most are irrelevant links to websites' home pages making no mention of the memorial. The biography has similar issues of promotion, original research, and COI. My take is that the memorial gets redirected to the bio, which needs serious cutting. Further thoughts welcome. 99.136.255.134 (talk) 15:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Support redirecting memorial article to the artist's page. The BLP needs to be pared down as well. The memorial has some coverage in news media, but not enough to satisfy WP:GNG. Here are two of the only examples:

• Kashmir Times (2010): "A sculptor in Belfast has also initiated the Linen Memorial. With sculptures carrying names of all kinds of victims of Ireland on small handkerchiefs."

• Canberra Times (2004): "What's in a name? We seem to ask this quite regularly. It seems I incurred the ire of one local radio journalist for not opening the Irish linen exhibition at Craft ACT under its full title, The Irish Linen Memorial - Transformation of Tears. I don't think I gave it any name at the opening, so busy was I reflecting on the Irish Troubles. But what a good thing the artist Lycia Trouton decided not to use her original title, lightly whited-out on the invitation card: Horrific Hankies." Andrew³²⁷ 16:59, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Proposition 1: Idaho LGBT Rights

After searching Wikipedia for pages or articles concerning LGBT rights in different states I noticed that Oregon is the only state with any mention or details attached with Measure 9. Would a similar article concerning Idaho's Proposition 1 in 1994 be equally notable as its Oregon counterpart? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ckmann (talk • contribs) 20:51, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Can you find enough reliable source texts to use to help you write a reasonable-length article on the legislation, covering its full evolution, debate, and effect? If so, go for it. If not, don't. It's that simple. All notability means is "is there enough source texts to write a decently complete and indepth article?" --Jayron32 00:01, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

And if you are not sure about the article writing process, I recommend that you go through Articles for Creation. Andrew³²⁷ 22:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Michele Miscavige

I believe that the wife of Scientology leader David Miscavige should have her own BLP. I created one for her but it was changed to a redirect with an edit summary citing WP:N; it never went through CSD, PROD, or AFD. She has a few sentences in her husband's BLP, but a search of Shelly Miscavige (her preferred name) in any news database or Google Books shows significant coverage that more than satisfies WP:BIO. In addition to being part of Scientology's top leadership, she vanished six years ago and what has happened to her is a mystery. Andrew³²⁷ 23:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Selma Botman

I question whether Selma Botman meets the notability requirement to merit a biography page.

The page has multiple problems, it is the subject of an ongoing edit war, many of the contributions were made by those with conflicts of interest, its talk page has some serious animosity, but my question is whether the page should exist at all.

Selma Botman is a former University of Southern Maine President, that appears to be the most notable thing in her career. No USM president (current one included) has ever been notable enough to merit a Wikipedia page. While USM and its recent history (she left less than a year ago) is very important to me as a USM student, I don't see anything on the page that indicates Botman meets the notability requirement of Wikipedia, either as an academic specifically or as a person in general.

There's no shortage of sources currently 14 references, at one point 35, but most of it is either extremely local news or about a single event that got a lot of news coverage. It looks like all but one of the people on the talk page are local and have been directly affected so of course it feels notable to us. Also, those references were all added after the event that kicked off the edit war occurred. Before that the page had no references at all.

Finally, the sources, most of them usually quite reliable, have for some reason been pretty consistently unreliable when reporting about Selma Botman.

I think an objective, non-local, disinterested person is needs to judge whether Selma Botman meets the notability requirement for a biography page. If she doesn't her bio page should be gotten rid of entirely rather than dealing with the problems currently plaguing it. If she does, then the page should obviously stay and the problems with it will just have to be dealt with.

I went through the things that could make one notable point by point on the talk page and the conclusion I came to is that she isn't by Wikipedia's standards (though she is by mine), but I am not objective, I am local, I am definitely not disinterested. I am thus utterly unqualified to judge whether the page should be on Wikipedia.

(A word of warning for those venturing onto the talk page, there are people there who make me look downright concise. Giant walls of text.)

76.179.113.103 (talk) 18:43, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

It's pretty clear to me that she meets the guidelines at WP:ACADEMIC, viz #6 as president of the University of Southern Maine. Just because none of the other presidents don't have articles doesn't mean that she doesn't qualify.--ukexpat (talk) 18:48, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MAPS International High

This is so frustrating. I nominated an article for deletion because notability was not established. Other users vote to keep and claim that high schools are inherently notable and this is established consensus. I have repeatedly asked for clarification on where this consensus was reached, and why it is not reflected in guidelines. I have compiled a list of quotes from project pages that indicate my position is the accepted one: User:Atlantima/No Exceptions to Notability. The users voting Keep are attempting to reverse the burden of proof for notability, make discouraged arguments and are avoiding discussion of the actual article. I have tried reminding the other users to address this specific article's topic and avoid making WP:ATA. I have asked for link to the alleged consensus. I have quoted policies and guidelines. All of this while remaining calm and open to compromise such as userfication.

I brought this to dispute resolution in an attempt to get more opinions and clarification but I was accused of trying to circumvent the AFD process and told that DRN is "Not suitable venue." I am at my wit's end here. They keep saying there is a consensus, but that is clearly not what Wikipedia:Notability, and many other project pages, indicate: No subject is automatically or inherently notable merely because it exists... once an article's notability has been challenged, merely asserting that unspecified sources exist is seldom persuasive, especially if time passes and actual proof does not surface.' --Atlantima (talk) 20:56, 21 March 2013 (UTC)