Wikipedia:Peer review/Georgi Kinkladze/archive4

Georgi Kinkladze

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This article, about a Georgian football (soccer) player best known for his time in England, failed an FAC nomination some three years ago. As Kinkladze is retired and lives out of the public eye, little content has changed since then. However, FAC standards most likely have changed in that time, so I'm looking for feedback with a view to a second run at FAC.

Thanks, Oldelpaso (talk) 18:50, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments: Thanks for your work on this. Interesting article and Sorry to take so long to review this. Here are some suggestions for improvement with an eye to FAC. Article seems fairly comprehensive, but could use some material on his personal and retirement life, if available. There are some language and MOS issues I will try to point out too.

There are a bunch of dead links which will need to be fixed before FAC - see here

Lead

The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. Nothing important should be in the lead only - since it is a summary, it should all be repeated in the body of the article itself, but his nicknames (Kinky etc.) seem to be only in the lead.
I would identify Ajax as a Dutch team in the lead - I knew it was not British, but was not sure where it was until I followed the link - see WP:PCR
Comprehensiveness is a FA criterion. As far as I can tell there are only two sentences about his life since 2006 (5 years) and not much on his personal life. If this can be added, there should be a sentence or two in the lead, depending.

Early life

When he was born the Soviet Union still existed, so tweak Georgi Kinkladze was born on 6 July 1973 in Tbilisi, Georgia, part of the former Soviet Union. perhaps to something like Georgi Kinkladze was born on 6 July 1973 in Tbilisi, Georgia, which was then part of the Soviet Union.
I would be consistent in setting off his parents professions (father uses commas, mother uses parentheses)
Two levels, so plural needed in Over the next few years, Kinkladze played in Dinamo Tbilisi's youth teams, progressing as far as the reserve team, where he played alongside Shota Arveladze, who would later become his teammate at both senior and international level.[8] Also I expected to see him mentioned again later in the article but did not (where did they play together later?)

Early career

Need to specify it was Kinkladze who moved in When Georgian football formed leagues independent of Soviet competition in 1989, a family friend arranged a move [for Kinkladze] to Mretebi Tbilisi, the first openly professional club in the Soviet Union.[8]
Give the year too? In his first professional season, aged 16, Kinkladze played 20 games.
Perhaps give the rough equivalent in dollars or euros of the roubles After a second season at Mretebi, he was signed by Dinamo, the team he represented as a youth, for one million roubles.[9]
I would use Kinkladze and not he in On 17 September 1992, at the age of 19, he made his senior international debut against Azerbaijan,[10]...
Sounds like he got a red card at Saarbruecken and was sent off in a 1–3 defeat to Hertha Berlin.[13] but none is shown in the table at bottom
Witnessed is an odd verb in It was not until Manchester City chairman Francis Lee witnessed the recording that negotiations for a permanent move abroad occurred.

Manchester City

A number of FAC reviewers do not like verb+ing constructions so thinsg like Manchester City's form stuttered during the 1995–96 season, failing to win a single game in the first three months of the season... could be problematic (the team failed to win a single game... would work too)
I do not know lots oabout football, but winner here sounds slangy Kinkladze scored the winner following a one-two with Niall Quinn.[21] would "winning goal" work? (If this is standard football worsing, it is fine) Ditto for "chipping" later
Say Match of the Day is a BBC program somehow?
Do yards need to be converted to metres too - assume so per the MOS
Advertisements instead of adverts? Also if they paid for them, didn't make the "adverts" The campaign even extended to the half-time adverts on the scoreboard, the "adverts" being messages from supporter groups who had paid to display them.[29]
Spell out abbreviations on first use, so "Queens Park Rangers {QPR}"
Contained is an odd verb The QPR team contained hardman Vinnie Jones - perhaps just "Vinnie Jones was a member of the QPR team..."?
There are some photos of the old Manchester City stadium - could any of these be used in this article? Same idea for stadium / players / managers of the temas he played for - if there is a free image can it be included here?

Ajax

Missing word He immediately started to look elsewhere, but several English top-flight clubs which showed interest in signing him were discouraged by work permit issues, as his lack of regular football [???] also resulted in him losing his place in the Georgian national team.[51][53]

Derby County

Can this be clarified - did they fear injuring him? His new team-mates, keeping his performances for Manchester City in mind, feared even touching him during his first training session.[57]
Awkward At the end of the season, the loan move was made permanent, the transfer fee £3 million,[61] which was a club record until 2007.[62]
Wouldn't it be better as "the goalkeeper" - also not sure what 17 minutes from time means - end of the match? Beginning? He came on as a substitute 17 minutes from time and levelled the game 1–1 with a solo goal two minutes later, jinking between two defenders before curling a left-foot shot beyond a goalkeeper.[68]
There are at least two places where there will be a full date (day month year) in one sentence followed by a sentence with a full date a few days later - in cases like this I do not think the second (same) year is needed. One example Jim Smith resigned from his managerial position at Derby on 7 October 2001,[72] leaving Kinkladze, a Smith favourite, bitterly disappointed.[73] The appointment of new manager Colin Todd on 8 October 2001[74] signalled a change in the club's playing style.
Any idea how much money he made for Derby County?

Anorthosis

Tighten and two days later, on the day of the second leg of the tie against Rangers, he left for Rubin Kazan to close a deal with Rubin.[114] to something like ... and two days later, on the day of the second leg of the tie against Rangers, he left to close a deal with Rubin Kazan.[114]

Rubin Kazan

Don't need two firsts in one sentence At first he took part in a short corner which resulted in the first goal of the game.
Seemes like these two consective sentences do not agree with each other After the match Berdyev claimed he made a mistake in his choice of penalty taker.[124] Then at the start of the next paragraph Berdyev continued to have faith in Kinkladze...
Tighten The 2006 season, however, transpired to be his final season. How about just The 2006 season, however, was his last.
Odd wording - sounds like he went to the store for some milk and picked up an injury while he was there, and if it was the first competitive match doesn't that imply of the year? How about just "He was inhured in Rubin's first competitive match." instead of He picked up an injury in Rubin's first competitive match of the year
What part(s) of his body did he injure? A recurrence of an old injury meant he was sidelined for longer than expected...
"struggle for fitness" seems odd to my ears, why not just "struggle" Kinkladze continued to struggle ~~for fitness~~,[143] making five further appearances for Rubin, two of which were starts.[140]
Missing word He also passed a thorough medical [examination?], the results of which were reported as the deciding factor for his future at the club.[148]

Career Statistics

Most of Career statistics needs refs.
I am also not sure why some things are totaled and others are not - looking more carefully these are totals for multiple years with one team - can this be made clearer?
Tblisis team stats are missing, as are yellow and red card stats for htose and other teams.

Honours

Needs refs
Why are his English team honors not shown here (player of the year, goal of the month)?

General

I see there is a bit more on his personal life in the article than I realized at first. I know some articles have separate sections on personal lives. While it is up to you, some recent FAs I looked at follow this model. There are several FAs on football players that may be useful models. The three most recent seem to be
- Sigi Schmid - has a personal life section
- Eduard Streltsov - post retirement section
- John Wark - Life outside football section (a bit older as an FA compared to the other 2, but was on the main page in 2011
Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in all peer reviews, in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)

Hope this helps. If my comments are useful, please consider peer reviewing an article, especially one at Wikipedia:Peer review/backlog (which is how I found this article). I do not watch peer reviews, so if you have questions or comments, please contact me on my talk page. Yours, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:55, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for a very thorough review, it is just the type of feedback I was looking for. I've made a number of the suggested changes, and will act upon most of the others in due course. Some of the language things e.g. medical without examination are fairly standard in BrEng sporting use, but its always worth thinking about alternative ways to phrase them if there's the potential for confusion when read by a wider audience. A roubles conversion for the 1991 transfer could be difficult. I don't have the exact date, and it was a period of very high inflation. According to a NYT article I found while searching for values, the rate was 6 to the dollar in 1989, but was 47 to the dollar by November 1991.

Unfortunately there has been nothing in reliable sources about Kinkladze's post-retirement life whatsoever as far as I can tell. LexisNexis only turns up articles harking back to previous performances, or comparing young up-and-coming Georgians with Kinkladze. Likewise on Google news archive search, including for his name in Cyrillic script. This paucity of sources is partly why I made the call to include personal life details in the narrative, to prevent a stubby section. Thanks again for your review. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:03, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If there are no sources on his recent life, then there are none. Please let me know when this is at FAC. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]