Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2008 March 27

Welcome to the Wikipedia Entertainment Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

March 27

Actors crossing themselves

For too many years to divulge, I've been watching movies and TV shows where the script calls for an actor to cross themselves; i.e. make the sign of the cross. And in the vast majority of cases, they just make some vague arm-waving movement that only marginally resembles how it's actually done. It's supposed to be a very distinct touching of the forehead, the breast, and then each shoulder (Orthodox Christians do it right then left; others do it left then right). It takes all of 2 seconds, and there's almost never any need to rush it. Maybe I was raised in a very strict (Catholic) school, but I've never seen any real-life people fumble it the way actors generally do. They make movies to be as realistic and credible as possible, yet when it comes to this sort of important detail, they seem to neither know, nor care enough to find out, how to do it. I'd have thought that if it was important enough to the story to do it at all, why not do it the way it's supposed to be done. I've always wondered why this is given so little attention by the film-makers; and I've even suspected there's some superstition involved whereby if you're a non-believer you'll invoke some sort of punishment or whatever, so they deliberately avoid doing it the proper way. Is there any truth in this suspicion; if not, what could explain this curious lapse in attention to a detail that many viewers notice immediately and often comment on? -- JackofOz (talk) 02:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's the flaw in your argument: "They make movies to be as realistic and credible as possible". See suspension of disbelief. — Kieff | Talk 02:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it's an American thing, Jack. In my neck of the woods, I've seen many folks, both Roman Catholics and Episcopalians (Anglicans), cross themselves in a very sketchy fashion in church. I've also seen a number of priests who are content with giving a vague wave of the hand when blessing something. Could it be a down-home, democratic discomfort with ritual? Deor (talk) 03:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

(ec) @ Kieff. That doesn't work in this case. An actor playing a priest, for example, will dress in a way that tells us he's a priest - dog dollar, crucifixes on his lapels, etc - not as a circus clown. If the movie's about travelling down some crevasse to the centre of the Earth, obviously one suspends one's disbelief about the story; but the actors still behave as they would if they were actually there. And if they come across a herd of dinosaurs living 275 miles below the Earth's surface, the Hispanic navigator might cross himself and say "Madre de Dios!" or whatever. He wouldn't salute and say "Diamonds are a girl's best friend", because those would be inappropriate and non-credible responses. Crossing oneself in a sloppy way is considered just as non-credible as this. Many actors pride themselves in getting into their roles in as fine detail as they can manage, and when they're portraying real people, they research their ways of walking, speech mannerisms, body language etc. But this particular detail is routinely ignored as if it didn't matter that it can be offensive to many people if it isn't done properly. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Well i've seen many a sportman doing the same thing without being particularly careful over it. Indeed allowing for normal-variation in individual people's method of doing this surely we can see the different variations also in film? Sometimes it will be done in a thoughtful/deep way and other times it will be doing rapidly to convey a sense of urgency/panic. As for the 'attention to detail' aspect -I strongly suspect that if you compared the actors voice/body language etc. to that of the person they are using for inspiration/trying to portray it would be 'similar but not perfect'. Is the 'sign of the cross' technique strongly important to that many practicing christians or are they also 'lazy' in their implementation of it? I doubt it varies depending on the intensity/time they are doing it as to whether they are meticulous in their signing. Like how in Allo Allo the tv series they had a very formal 'heil' for senior nazi officers and their more of a casual 'heil' between those of similar/lower rank. ny156uk (talk) 17:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, sportsmen sometimes do it, and they tend to do it properly. With actors, the impression I've often gained is that they really don't know exactly what's involved, and there's nobody around to show them, so they just sort of make up what they think it is (probably from watching movies where other actors also made it up, and so on, back as far as movies go). I can't bring a specific film to mind, but I've seen ones where a priest or a nun, who of all people would know exactly what to do, just sort of wave their arm around in front of their body. Maybe I really was brought up in a strict school, stricter than I realised. Thanks for the input anyway, folks. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

My (lapsed Catholic) experience was always that in a formal context - e.g. by a priest saying the mass - the sign of the cross would be made clearly and slowly, often accompanying the phrase "In the name of the Father [head] and of the Son [heart] and of the Holy [left shoulder] Spirit [right shoulder]", but that outside this context - e.g. when a worshipper "blesses himself" (as this was generally called) upon entering a church - the gesture would be quick and vague, little more than a rapid hand movement down from the forehead to the chest then left and then right, often without even touching the body. My experience relates to Catholics (mainly of Irish descent) in the UK; your signage may vary. (If I saw an actor crossing himself in anything but a rather casual way - except when celebrating mass - in a film, I would tend to think he hadn't done his research rather than the reverse). Valiantis (talk) 02:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

My similarly lapsed experience suggests that lots of people do it quickly and apathetically, if they aren't really interested. I also remember touching my stomach for the second movement, I suppose I thought that was more like the actual shape of a cross. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

My current (but infrequent) experience concurs with the above two posts, the priest when blessing anything; host, receiptent etc does so as you have descibed Jack, but everyone else does as your everyman actor does, even, i have to say the catholics which match yourself in maturity, must have been the upbringing there JackofOx...Perry-mankster (talk) 20:06, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

sears

If I wanted to find a list of the women models' names who work for sears, where could I find that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwking (talk • contribs) 04:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I very much doubt you will find that information anywhere online. Remember that models normally work for agencies, not for the company whose products they model. If you write politely to Sears using the contact details on their website, they might tell you the models' names, or (more likely) the agency they come from. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

film critic

Who is the film critic for The Early Show?72.229.136.18 (talk) 08:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

How Can I Get My Submission Published?

About a month ago, I submitted a page for 3 Tha Hardway. If I google it, I can see a partial page, but if I select it, it says it's not found. Can someone help me publish it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ddthomp (talk • contribs) 11:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Your article was deleted; see the deletion log here. Looks like you didn't make a case for the artist being important or significant. These are important aspects of Wikipedia articles - you need to include some references to the artist in other sources to indicate that the artist is worthy of an article. If you go to your user talk page (click on the blue 'talk' link next to your username above), you will see a notice about this. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Anime plots

My impression of watching a reasonable amount of anime is that the genre very often resorts to deus ex machina plot twists. One notable example, in my opinion, is in Spirited Away. There also seems to be a penchant for extremely tumultuous and often apocalyptic (like in Akira). Are these impressions correct? If yes, are these types of plot twists better regarded in Japanese culture? Peter ^Isotalo 19:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Anime and manga in the slice-of-life genre tend not to have much deus-ex-machinery. Please see Slice of life#Examples for, well, examples. I hope this helps in any way. --Dr Dima (talk) 14:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

It's also likely that these are the types of plots American audiences prefer -- or least are more profitable/marketable for US releasing companies to show. I can't imagine a big turnout for a theatrical release of high school romance anime. --70.167.58.6 (talk) 01:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

When to Watch As for Me and My House (sitcom)

What day and time is As for Me and My House (sitcom) on KNWS-TV? Ericthebrainiac (talk) 20:03, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest going to KNWS' website and taking a look at their programming schedule where you will find the answer to your question, which I just did and found the answer is never. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.200.225.109 (talk) 21:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Troy Aikman wear # 9 ?

Why did Troy Aikman wear # 9 (instead of # 8) in the 1995 NFL Pro Bowl? Here's what I used to search on google images (troy aikman 1995 NFL Pro Bowl) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.71.163 (talk) 21:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Because Steve Young also wore number 8, they probably flipped a coin or something.--ChesterMarcol (talk) 22:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)