Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 April 29

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April 29

50 states book

I'm looking for a book that is similar to encyclopedia of the 50 states of the United States. The book should contains history, geography, economy, demographic, education... of all 50 states, similar to the articles on here. And don't recommend me the book "Almanac of the 50 states", I have that book and it is not what I'm looking for. It just has a bunch of datas. And please don't recommend me random books that don't have what I'm looking for. I don't have much money to buy books that in the end just to find out that's not what I'm looking for. Thanks!184.97.130.145 (talk) 02:44, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

It sounds like you are looking for something that combines an almanac and an encyclopedia. Not sure if it exists. Have you tried the Encyclopedia Britannica? Seriously, it has fairly extensive articles on all 50 States, and will contain most of the information you want.

As for cost... why buy the books? If you live in the US, there is probably a public library in a town somewhere near you... where you will be able to access all sorts of good reference materials for very little cost. Blueboar (talk) 03:00, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I do live in the US but I want to buy it for someone else in a different country. Anyway, it is always nice to own a book. There is a big difference between a book that I own and the book I borrow from the library. There is limitations to things I can do with books from the library, it is not my book so I can't do whatever with it. Plus if I own a book, I can use it whenever I want, no time restriction.65.128.150.59 (talk) 22:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

How about The 50 States, by Bahmueller and Rasmussen? (Found by searching Google Books for "the 50 states"; you can find other possibilities that way, although none that look as nice to me.) Looie496 (talk) 03:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

You could print our 50 articles and bind them into a book, that would be the cheapest option if you are short of cash. --Lgriot (talk) 10:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

That makes a number of assumptions. California takes 33 pages; New Hampshire takes 22 pages. If we assume the average number of pages is 25 (probably conservative), that means 1,250 pages or 625 double sided, a very thick book. What sort of short-of-cash student is going to have 625 pages of blank paper lying around, plus a commercial-type binder that would handle a binding job of that size? If the OP had to rely on a commercial printer, the cost of printing 625 pages double sided and then binding them into a book, could far exceed the cost of such a book purchased in a book shop. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not short in cash but I don't want to waste money on things I don't need.65.128.150.59 (talk) 22:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Fair point regarding the cost of ink, but not paper (US$ 5 should cover 500 pages). Also binding is available in shops that offer professional copying and usually costs very little obviously depends where you are. --Lgriot (talk) 16:05, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

No Nobel nominations?

List of Nobel laureates says "In years in which the Nobel Prize is not awarded due to external events or a lack of nominations, the prize money is returned to the funds delegated to the relevant prize. The Nobel Prize was not awarded between 1940 and 1942 due to the outbreak of World War II." When was the last time that a prize wasn't awarded because there weren't any nominations? I found [1], which mentions the lack of nominations during World War I, but (1) that's also a potential issue of external events, and (2) it doesn't say that this was the last time.

Meanwhile, what does "Chinti" mean in the 1914 Literature Prize? [2] says that no literature prize was awarded, but I don't understand how it's different from the various "None" entries. Nyttend (talk) 03:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

It's vandalism dating from January. An IP made a series of changes, most of which were rapidly reverted, but this one was missed. Gone now. Rojomoke (talk) 05:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

There's a table on this page showing the non-awarding years for all the prizes. Looks like it happens most frequently with the Peace prizes, but they all, except Economics, have seen years outside the two world wars when they have not been awarded. 1972 is the most recent year listed, for the Peace prize. Karenjc 06:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Additional note: I've found several references to the fact that the committee is not obliged to reveal details of nominees or reasons for not awarding a prize, so it may be difficult to establish whether omissions were down to a lack of nominations in any particular year. Our article Nobel Prize controversies says that the 1948 Peace prize was withheld as a tacit acknowledgement that Gandhi had been wrongly passed over and could not now be honoured - the committee declared that there were no suitable living candidates in that year, but that's not the same as no nominations. - Karenjc 07:17, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

website that show differences between Ultra-Orthodox, Hasidic, Modern Orthodox, Conservative and Reform Jews

Is there a website that does that?--Donmust90 (talk) 03:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)Donmust90

See here and follow links thereon. Omidinist (talk) 04:08, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

[edit conflict] See this website. Nyttend (talk) 04:10, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Which city has the largest Bangladeshi Canadians, Arab Canadians, Iranian Canadians, Afghani Canadians and Turk Canadians?

Besides Toronto, which other cities or places has the largest Bangladeshi Canadians, Arab, Iranian, Afghani and Turk?--Donmust90 (talk) 03:37, 29 April 2013 (UTC)Donmust90

Must you, Donmust90? Must you, really? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 04:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't find the question outside the scope of the Reference Desk. Yes, Donmust's interests are a bit peculiar, but I don't see any problem with them as such. --Soman (talk) 04:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

However, he asks the same or similar questions repeatedly, despite having been pointed to relevant Canadian government websites etc. a number of times. AnonMoos (talk) 11:23, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Donmust90, your question is answered in Bangladeshi Canadian, Arab Canadians, Iranian Canadian, Afghan Canadian and Turkish Canadian. 184.147.121.2 (talk) 11:41, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

(Semi-EC, I mostly composed this when only JoO had replied but wasn't completed and then had to do somethinghten forgot about it, I've read the other responses and they don't change my comment.) Well this one is a bit more complicated then the typical Donmust90 question. If we trust this source [3], St. John has one of the highest percentage of obese people. However according to St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, they don't have many people in those categories. It sounds like Saint John, New Brunswick may not have many either. Toronto for all the ones it does have seems to have not so much of a problem with obesity. Surprisingly Hamilton, Ontario does, and it also has a decent number, so perhaps it's a decent bet. However there's no guarantee the obesity figures for these subpopulations match. Perhaps more importantly, going by such figures is only slightly better than random guesswork. For example, it's possible out of the 180 Arabs in 2006 in St. John, 179 are underweight but one of them is 500kg making him the heaviest Arab Canadian and St. John the city to have the largest Arab Canadian. Edit: i just noticed the OP said im the question, but not the title, 'place', suggesting they don't care if these people live outside a city. The good news is that from stuff I saw earlier, rural populations tend to have lower percentages for obesity. The bad news is, as I said earlier, statistics have limited use when talking about individuals. Also slightly concurring with Blueboar, it's possible these people don't even live in Canada. Is the OP including anyone with Canadian citizenship and whatever ethnicity or people who would identify as Arab Canadian in at least some contexts or what? Unfortunately, the only way I can see for a decent, but probaly not definite, answer to this question if there is some random story on the fattest Canadian and he or she happens to be of whatever ethnicity. However despite the existance of List of the heaviest people, I don't think posting such a story to the RD is good for BLP reasons. I would add 'largest' is generally taken as a sign of volume and while there is some correlation between body mass and volume, other factors also come in to play. Nil Einne (talk) 17:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Given the number of Canadians who travel south for the winter... the answer is probably Phoenix, AZ Blueboar (talk) 16:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Check [[4]] if you are so interested in Canada. OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Donmust. Why do you want to know? If you tell us, you will get more willing help. I already asked. Are you perhaps targeting a political campaign? If so, we might not all agree with your campaign, but we will understand where you are coming from. I sincerely hope that you are not planning some sort of attack on these communities. I know it sounds weird to suggest it but honestly when we have so many similar questions, we are naturally going to wonder why. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:59, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I recall the OP's reply to your previous request for clarification, and now I'll state my continued difficulty with it. This apparently sincere interest is (a) generally focused on definitions of ethnic and religious identities (predominantly Jewish and Muslim), and (b) particularly quantitative in nature. I find this sort of classification approach simplistic - possibly dangerously so - and thus am disinclined to support it. I'd far rather move in the direction of recommending selections of literary and journalistic sources treating the immigrant and minority experiences in their complexity at the personal, interpersonal, and intergroup levels, hoping that this will impart actual understanding and empathy rather than sheer categorization (and generalizing) and where that might lead. And I'm posting this here rather than on the User talk:Donmust90 or Refdesk Talk pages, aiming to reach those involved in this ongoing situation. -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:42, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Is this the same user that kept asking questions like this, under various ID's, and was blocked each time? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:05, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

"Mr. Fader, you sure do ask a lot of questions for a guy from New Jersey" Gzuckier (talk) 06:13, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

ISAF

Where can I find stats for troop contributions of various nations to the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan? The article only lists current stats -- where can I find stats for all the deployments from 2001 to present day? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 05:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

At ISAF troop number statistics, scroll down for numbers starting at 2007, when there were much less troops than today. OsmanRF34 (talk) 18:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! 24.23.196.85 (talk) 05:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Arts: Mauricio García Vega, Prints for sale?

I came across the page of this artist just now and am impressed with his work. I immediately wanted to purchase some prints or posters but a google search and amazon search turns up nothing, not even a homepage for him. Of course that's probably the end and the answer to this question, but I figured there might be some art buffs who could have some insider news. Anyone? Thanks in advance. 208.127.39.230 (talk) 08:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Request for help in defeating vandalism of Wiki page

Hi all,

I realize this is not the proper place to make this sort of request, but I'm not sure where else to turn. There has been a persistent effort to vandalize the page Huizhou University. As the user Astrayalien has noted in the edit history, this vandal is a former employee of the university involved in a labor dispute. Most of the vandalism centers around his claim that the school is not actually a university. Apart from being untrue, the vandal fails to provide any source confirming his claim (The one link he has recently provided contains no mention of any "demotion." On the contrary, the source repeatedly refers to the institution as a university, as does the school's official website, which has been included as a source from the beginning). At the best, this user's changes constitute original research and violate Wikipedia's policies. At the worst, they constitute a sustained vandalism attempt which might necessitate the banning of the user in question. If someone is willing to help, I suggest restoring the recent changes by user AndreGallant and instituting a freeze on further edits until this blows over.

Thank you in advance for your help. 216.151.31.101 (talk) 09:03, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

For future reference... there are several places to raise an issue like this. The first is probably WP:NPOVN (the "Neutral point of view noticeboard"). And if it persists, take it to WP:ANI. Blueboar (talk) 16:53, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't shout vandal too soon. How can we know that Hiuzhou is actually a university and not a community college? OsmanRF34 (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

In Chinese terms, Huizhou is not classified as a university (大学）, but rather as a college (学院）. Here is a link to the Chinese Wikipedia article on this institution, showing that, according to its official name, it is a college. The distinction seems to be whether an institution offers postgraduate degree programs, and apparently this institution does not, even though it uses an English-language name including the word university. Marco polo (talk) 18:30, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

While one could have an honest debate about whether the differences in naming conventions should be mentioned, the edits themselves make it clear that the user in question has lost objectivity and should refrain from further edits (see the article's talk page for more). You refer to the official Chinese name of the institution correctly. However, the official name of the institution in English is indeed "Huizhou University," information I gained from the institution's official website and an English list of academic institutions from China's Ministry of Education (MOE link here http://www.moe.edu.cn/ewebeditor/uploadfile/2012/03/06/20120306092426358.xls.) I also think it's important to note that, as I understand it, our role on Wikipedia is not to act as detectives or attorneys presenting a certain point of view, but simply to provide relevant, sourced information. If the user in question wants to make allegations that this institution was demoted, he needs to provide sourced material indicating this is the case. This has not been done, and so the article should not be changed. Truly, thanks to all for taking some interest in this matter. 216.151.31.21 (talk) 01:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Book banning in Nazi Germany

I was reading Nazi guidelines for banning books and List of authors banned during the Third Reich. Nazis clearly mentioned they will ban books on Marxism (point 2), liberalism (point 4), and sexuality (point 8). It is understandable they banned Karl Marx (point 2), Sigmund Freud (point 8). But I don't understand why did they ban Alfred Adler, Charles Darwin? Was Hitler a creationist, opposed to evolution? And why they didn't ban Immanuel Kant, Ludwig von Mises, John Locke, Adam Smith? --Yoglti (talk) 13:14, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure why he would ban Darwin, but Adler (like Marx and Freud) was Jewish. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) (formerly R——bo) 13:43, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

An article called Was Hitler influenced by Darwin or by Christianity? by Peter Hitchens says; "I believe that this ban (on Darwin's works) was not caused by any NSDAP objection to the theory of evolution, but may have more to do with Hitler's specific disagreement with Haeckel's supporters and disciples, the Monists, who were very far from being Nazis."

Perhaps the oddest ban was H G Wells who had proposed the disappearance of the Judaism (through forced integration rather than extermination) in The Shape of Things to Come. I think Hitler had taken a dislike to The History of Mr Polly who he thought was a bit of an anarchist. Funny how such a harmless old buffer as Mr Polly could be seen as a threat to the Thousand Year Reich. Alansplodge (talk) 15:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

It hardly seems odd that they banned Wells, when he was a prominent socialist and, while his views on Judaism and on eugenics were mixed at best and sometimes pretty unpleasant, they weren't the same as the Nazi views. Warofdreams talk 10:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

The Nazis were not particularly strong on intellectual endeavours, and von Mises, Locke, and Smith were not particularly widely read in Germany. Indeed, they are probably only known to rather small audiences now. So they may just have slipped under the radar --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

One should remember that the Wikipedia list is far from exhaustive (and as has been pointed out below, very dubious in regards to use of citations), so those authors might actually have been banned. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:14, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Charles Darwin was never banned, as the article by Peter Hitchens makes clear. The source cited in List of authors banned during the Third Reich is [5], which mentions Ernst Haeckel but never Darwin. I've removed him from the list. --Bowlhover (talk) 04:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Ranking of MIT Mathematics Department

I came up with the article and I am quite surprised. It claims that MIT Mathematics Department is ranked Number 1 in the world ahead of four other USA universities coming second. First of all the department does not have a single Category:Fields Medalists which is considered the Nobel prize of Mathematics. École Normale Supérieure of France have got 10 Category:Fields Medalists alumni more than all other universities in USA combined. The closest a USA university has came is University of California, Berkeley with 7 Category:Fields Medalists My question then is:

• Are there any criticism of these surely biased (Not my original research) rankings?

I have checked out the articles of Criticism of college and university rankings (North America) Criticism of college and university rankings (2007 United States) but they fail to provide the explanation of the question I seek. Solomon7968 (talk) 18:26, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Um, no where does the article say the MIT was ranked number 1 in the world. It says it's 'one of the leading mathematics departments in the USA and the world' and 'In the 2010 US News ranking of US graduate programs,[3] the Department was ranked number one'. In other words, it only says it's one of the leading mathematics departments in the world, and was ranked number one of US graduate programmes in one specific ranking table. From the article history, it hasn't been modified since March [6] so I guess said the same thing when you read it. As for your later question, since it was based on a misconception, perhaps that explains the problem. Note in terms of the number 1 place among US graduate programmes in 2010, both U.S. News & World Report and the articles you linked to discuss specific criticism of the U.S. News & World Report rankings. None of them refer to the MIT mathematics placing in particular, but there's a fair chance you won't find a specific criticism of a specific rank, because it's easily possible no one commented on it. In terms of how the U.S. News & World Report ranking works, again there is some detail in the articles, you can probably find more from the links.

Note that if you look around these articles on wikipedia, you'll likely eventually come across the Academic Ranking of World Universities which does use Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals, and you'll also come across criticism such as that in the article I linked to, of those rankings precisely because of the high focus on people associated with them (staff and alumni, particularly on staff which you didn't mention but also alumni) winning Nobel prizes and Fields Medals. You may even come across comment of the Fields Medal age limit and how it creates additional problems if you use it to indicate the most important work in the field. (BTW, I intentionally avoided using the word criticism here, since it may fit with the purpose of the medal and may not be bad thing, provided you aren't using the medal for something other then its purpose. I would note there's also a lot of commentary surrounding the Nobel Prizes even the science ones, and how well they indicate contribution to the field but it doesn't have the age issue.)

Edit: BTW, if you look at the actual ref for the claim it's one of the leading in the world, you'll see the foot note itself says it's based on 'MIT ranked 15th on citations and 17 on impact', in other words, even from this it's possible it's 15-17. Now if you look at the actual ref, which is dead but I added an archive (so the article has now been edit), you won't see École Normale Supérieure de Lyon there however since all it's doing is giving the citation impact and number of citations over a 10 year period, I presume it's accurate. In terms of whether it's fair to say the MIT Mathematics Department is one of the world leading mathematics departments based on this citation, that's a discussion best held on the article talk page.

Nil Einne (talk) 18:39, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I am still not convinced. There are many reason to believe that the article MIT Mathematics Department itself does not suit according to wikipedia guidelines. Well it is just a department of mathematics in a university like plenty many around the world and the fact that it is a department of MIT does not itself make it a encyclopedic topic for discussion. Even we have a article for Michael Sipser and the wikipedia article does not say anything about his research interests but just includes it because he is the head MIT Mathematics Department. I don't think just only having the MIT brand power makes any professor automatically notable. Solomon7968 (talk) 19:04, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Not convinced of what? You asked a question based on a misconception and I clarified that. If you have further details that confuse you, please explain what they are. Please note as I explained in the edit I added (unfortunately only saved after you replied) this is not the place to discuss problems you have with an article or with wikipedia in general. For notability concerns, there are various ways to deal with this, I suggest you read Wikipedia:Notability (academics) to start with, follow appropriate links and seek help at an appropriate place like WP:Help Desk if you still have concerns and can't work out what to do. Nil Einne (talk) 19:22, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Well I didn't noticed what the foot note says but the phrase read US News ranking of US graduate programs. Since I am not from USA I got confused that there is a specific US News with a brandname US News. I now have added the link to the article to avoid any misconception. Solomon7968 (talk) 19:47, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Actually the phrase read 'In the 2010 US News ranking of US graduate programs' until you changed it after this discussion. While I can understand how you may not have realised there was something called U.S. News or U.S. News & World Report, I don't particularly understand how this lead you to believe it was a world ranking when it clearly specified it was a US ranking, and the only mention of world was in the earlier comment on MIT being one of the leading in the world. (Even though the full name for the magazine may be U.S. News & World Report, only US News or U.S. News was used in the article including the footnote text and any wikilinks.) But anyway feel free to modify the article and/or discuss it on the talk page if there are any more issues in it you feel need clarification. Nil Einne (talk) 20:12, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

(EC) Edit for above: Note that being President of MIT and probably chancellor would imply notability, as it would at least for president or equivalent for many other universities. Head of mathematics department is less clear, but again, you appear to be mistaken. The article, which again hasn't been edited since March [7] make an additional claim for notability namely 'Sipser is the author of Introduction to the Theory of Computation (ISBN 0-534-95097-3), a standard textbook in the study of theoretical computer science'. The article on the book doesn't establish it as such, and the notability criteria does suggest he may need to be the author of more than one book but such things are always unclear, if the book is significant enough just the one book could be enough. In any case, sufficient RS covering the person in depth would establish notability whatever the reason, and while the article may not be great, I think there are signs of notability from the little that's there so I would suggest caution and research if you really want to take this further. For example, a simple Google Scholar search [8] finds many articles, including the book with 2248 citations, the author on a paper 710 and another with 699 etc. (He's listed first on one of these, but apparently this doesn't mean he's necessarily the or one of lead author/s in mathematics.) Nil Einne (talk) 20:12, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Social dancing...

In social dancing, are dance partners allowed to be the same sex? Sneazy (talk) 18:32, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Resolved

I answered my own question. Partner dance. Sneazy (talk) 19:06, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

In the US, in the 1950's and 1960's at parties, sock hops or other teen dance occasions, it was very common for two girls to dance with each other, at least until a guy got up the nerve to ask one of them to dance. One generally did not see two girls close dancing to a slow tune. It would have been rare to see two guys dancing with each other. There were likely dances at gay or avant garde clubs where anything might be seen. Edison (talk) 19:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

If we're talking technicalities: There are no doubt many places in the world where 2 guys dancing together is still frowned on, or they are asked to get off the dance floor, or they suffer far worse consequences from the authorities. That's because there are still some places where homosexual activity is illegal. Even though dancing is not a sexual act per se, anyone in those places who wanted to take a stand (or take a waltz) and test the distinction might come off second best. On the other hand, in enlightened places, if anyone even frowns on 2 males dancing, let alone worse treatment, the law would be on the side of the dancers. Two women dancing together has always had far greater acceptance than two males; but only if they were assumed not to be lesbians. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:28, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Could it be that the ballroom dances have a distinct sex appeal to them? In tango, the dance partners would have to be intimate physically, which to the audience would like they are in love. Are there any exceptions? How about a mother dancing with her daughter or a father dancing with his son? Or would people count as a both incest and homosexuality? Sneazy (talk) 21:44, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Not unless they actually were. Many families are affectionate with each other regardless of gender. Meanwhile, in pop culture, I recall a scene from the early-1970s movie, Paint Your Wagon, in which a whole bunch of men were shown dancing with each other. They weren't gay, they just didn't have any women around, but they wanted to dance after a long week of gold mining, so they got some fiddlers and had a dance. Closer to home, in junior high and high school every year we had a segment of the P.E. curriculum that was dancing. There were always more girls than boys, so the "extra" girls would dance with each other and nobody made anything of it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:02, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Indeed many films from the 1940's and 1950's feature military men dancing together because there are no women around. Take for example The_Deadly_Mantis.Helene O'Troy - Et In Arcadia Ego Sum (talk) 19:16, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Scotland/Northern Ireland

What do loyalist/protestants/orange think of both the Scottish referendum next year and the SNP? Are they supportive of the Celtic League? Or does the monarchy card trump it? (Though Salmond said he would keep the monarch). Any word on what the SNP intends for Ireland relations and Northern Ireland conflict management proposals?Lihaas (talk) 20:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

See McGuinness issues warning as DUP figures split on Scottish referendum response - Peter Robinson: “We hope that Scotland will know just how much we want Edinburgh to remain within the United Kingdom.” Alansplodge (talk) 22:03, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. It seems religion divides. Though from a political perspective Robinson has not learned as much as McGuiness and Paisley.Lihaas (talk) 22:20, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Although you would rather expect Unionists to support the continuation of the Union. Quis separabit? is still a powerful slogan there.[9] [10] [11] Alansplodge (talk) 23:15, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

And I suspect that most of them do. However, I think politicians on both sides are simply being practical about things by keeping their mouths over the issue. One of the major pillars of peace in Northern Ireland, from the Good Friday Agreement onwards, is that the future of Northern Ireland should be decided by the population of Northern Ireland alone, without 'outside influence' (from either Britain or Ireland). Poking their noses into the question of Scottish independence could be seen as them not extending the same courtesy to the Scots as they would hope for in return. Hence, both Unionists and Nationalists, as well as the government of the Republic, are, in general, keeping their counsel on the matter. Of course, in private, each side presumably has a desired outcome. It's not too difficult to guess which is which. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 06:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

It should hardly be a surprise that the Orange Order in Scotland and N. Ireland are not fans of independence for Scotland. Here's Slugger O'Toole's take on the recent news that the OO will back "Better Together": [12]. Nothing new there as this much scarier decade-old Herald story shows [13].

Equally unamazing, the DUP aren't fans of the idea as FM Peter Robinson explains [14]. As N.I. Unionists go, Robinson's interventions have been restrained. At least he's not screaming for partition: [15]. And on the subject of An Phoblacht and their political masters in SF, they won't be taking an official position: [16].

So far as I know, such analysis as there has been done of religious voting patterns in 2011 - which is not much - can be found on page 9 of this pdf http://www.scottishelectionstudy.org.uk/docs/Mitchell_slides.pdf from the preliminary Scottish Election Study findings. Party vote is not a terribly good surrogate for views on independence - there are Yes voters in every party's share and there are dead-cert No voters who voted for the SNP - but it's as good as you'll find. Angus McLellan (Talk) 17:10, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

What is oldest age a person can be adopted foster parent in Russia or Finland?

You already asked this on the Misc desk. If we don't know there, we won't know here.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Since there is no age maximum for how old someone adpotes or foster a child in Russia or Finland I wonder how old the foster or adpoted parents has been in the past or is now? Venustar84 (talk) 21:09, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Sailing

When was the technique of working to windward first developed or used?LordGorval (talk) 23:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The earliest rig capable of tacking successfully was the spritsail, first recorded in the second century BC. Tevildo (talk) 23:45, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Most Austronesian peoples use fore-and-aft rigs, whose use is recorded in China and the Indian Ocean in ancient times as well. It is quite possible that the invention was prehistoric and arrived in Europe from the east. Marco polo (talk) 02:06, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Follow up question: Can we consider that keeping the Roman empire together wouldn't have been possible without the spritsail? --Lgriot (talk) 08:34, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

No, probably not. I don't think Roman ships used spritsails a lot. Trade on the Mediterranean depended a lot on seasonal favorable winds, not on being able to sail upwind (much of this is true for all commercial sailing - while most ships can sail upwind to a degree, it's nearly always much much much slower than using a favorable wind). And roman corbita were not particularly good at beating upwind, AFAIK. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:22, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Mr Schulz --Lgriot (talk) 15:57, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Session times of state parliaments

According to Indiana Senate#Operating rules, the Senate of Indiana must meet for 61 resp. 30 days (not necessarily consecutive days) per year, and adjourn no later than [date in spring]. Exceptions only when the Governor calls for a special session. Is it right to read that as "Under normal circumstances, new laws are created in Indiana only from January to April, because during the rest of the year the Senate is not in session and therefore cannot give its consent to any law"? I'd find that a bit astonishing, if it is indeed so, because: Can't a "need" to create a new law arise at any time? Being from a German state, I always believed (and Google just confirmed it to me) that - even though it can't make laws on as many areas as a US state legislature - the state parliament here meets at least monthly. --MF-W 23:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

That's what special sessions are for -- if there is a need for legislative action while the legislature is not in session. Looie496 (talk) 00:04, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, it bears noting, that unlike the Federal Congress, state legislators are usually part time positions: the pay is often not very high in many states, and most legislators hold down other jobs, necessitating short sessions. Most notably, the New Hampshire General Court has never given its legislators a pay raise since the 18th century, which means they are still given a salary of $100 per year. Even with the per diem when the legislature is in session (which is supposed to cover food and lodging), few people would serve as a full-time job and be on call all year long under those conditions. Now, New Hampshire is an extreme example, and like literally everything else about the U.S., this is highly variable from state to state, but in general in states that pay their legislators very little, sessions are kept short on purpose: the idea is to pass the laws that need passing for that year as quick as possible, then get home to get back to one's normal job. Of course, in many states, it is a full-time job, for example the California State Legislature meets year-round, but a) it's a much larger state to govern than Indiana or New Hampshire is, both in terms of population and area and b) they pay their legislators for it, $90,526 per year compared to New Hampshire's $100 per year, or Indiana's $22,616 per year. --Jayron32 04:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Read the sentence again, MF: "under normal circumstances . . . ." A special session is, by definition, not a normal session, but a possible one. And whenever it is in session, the Legislature has all of its full powers to make laws.[Expanding my answer:] That being said, many state legislatures in the U.S., unlike the U.S. Congress, do not meet all year round, or even every year. The Florida Legislature, for example, meets in normal session for only 60 days a year. And the Texas Legislature meets for 140 days, but only every other year. Of course, as mentioned, the governor of a state can call the Legislature into special session if a need arises for legislation outside of the normal sessions. Textorus (talk) 04:29, 30 April 2013 (UTC)