Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 March 17

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March 17

National Assembly of south korea Squre

What buildings surround the National Assembly of south korea square? Photos, panoramas, and videos are greatly appreciated.Curb Chain (talk) 01:13, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I went to Google Maps and typed in the address: "1 Uisadang-daero, Yeongdeungpo, Seoul, South Korea" to get this: [1]. Now zoom in using the plus sign under the orange man in the upper, left corner, check out the satellite view, then drag the orange man and drop him on a blue square near the building. Each blue square gives thumbnails of some 20 pics, half of which are the building itself, and half of which are surrounding buildings and sculptures. Press the X in the upper, right corner after you are done with each view. StuRat (talk) 03:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

The madness of King Henry

What sort of insanity is inherited? The Henry VI of England article says he inherited the same sort of insanity which plagued Charles VI of France. What sort of insanity would that be? RNealK (talk) 06:14, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

It's hard to know what actual clinical entities if any correspond to historical diagnoses; I think Henry VI is usually said to have manifested symptoms suggestive of Major depression and depressive psychosis. See [2]. It's about 50% heritable. - Nunh-huh 07:18, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Diagnoses at this distance in time are almost impossible, but my impression is that Charles VI probably had schizophrenia, whereas Henry VI was probably mentally retarded -- he seems to have been generally clueless even on his best days. His "insanity" looks to me like mainly an inability to deal with the complexities of being a king. But to repeat, it's very difficult to know. Looie496 (talk) 17:22, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Roman's battle plan

On what did Romans generals show their battle plan? On the ground writing with a stick? Moving little stones as they were legions? ... I'm Italian, so I'm sorry for my English. Thank you. --Innocenti Erleor (talk) 16:47, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Not sure if we will be able to find a source for this, but I see no reason why they wouldn't have used the same system used in WW2, a map on a table with figurines for various units being pushed around. StuRat (talk) 17:18, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Paper had not been invented in the West and parchment had not been invented. Papyrus could have been used but it rots in a humid climate.
Sleigh (talk) 18:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Papyrus won't last centuries in a humid climate like it will in an arid one, but it's perfectly serviceable for for the length of a military campaign. --Nicknack009 (talk) 19:21, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

And parchment was invented, according to our article, sometime between 263 and 158 BCE - well within the scope of the Roman era. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:28, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Or 2500 BCE if you read farther into our poorly organized article. Rmhermen (talk) 20:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

How about cloth, made of linen ? That would be better than paper, in a couple ways: It doesn't fall apart if it gets wet, and it doesn't wear through as quickly where you fold it (although rolling paper maps up and storing them in sealed tubes can also prevent both problems). StuRat (talk) 19:08, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Well yes, but in Roman times the standard way of recording information for short periods (i.e. anything that wouldn't need to be archived) was on Wax tablets. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:26, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Caesar" 49.4: Julius Caesar escapes battle around Alexandria by swimming while holding many "little books" ("βιβλίδια") over his head, despite incoming arrows. My thought: Perhaps these had battle plans, since he was so anxious to keep them from the enemy. Note the translation of "papers" for "βιβλίδια". --Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 22:51, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

• If I remember my BBC I, Claudius correctly, they used little models on tables apparently covered in parchment maps, kind of like you see in WWII movies. μηδείς (talk) 04:52, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I am grateful to you for your help. --Innocenti Erleor (talk) 19:05, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

You plural, or you singular? μηδείς (talk) 00:44, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Were birds-eye maps used during the Roman Empire? Would such maps have made sense? RNealK (talk) 22:06, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

All evidence points to the fact that the people of the classical period were as intelligent and able to abstract as are moderns. In fact, moderns seem stupider if you ask me, but that may be because back then the illiterate didn't have twitter accounts or email. See the contents of the Loeb Classical Library. μηδείς (talk) 00:48, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The Tabula Peutingeriana is a bird's-eye map of the Roman world...although it dates from about 1000 years later. And the article is not very clear on whether or not it is a copy of an actual Roman map, or if it was compiled in the Middle Ages from Roman data. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

No, it's because you don't know much about the ancients. See Flynn effect. People are getting smarter, which is not surprising--we have far better nutrition, longer life expectancy, fewer hardships, and easier access to information. --140.180.248.40 (talk) 02:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The Flynn effect, for whatever it's worth (hint: not much), doesn't have anything to do with ancient people. Adam Bishop (talk) 02:14, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

The Flynn Effect applies to the general populace. I thought I mentioned that the "general populace" (illiterate) didn't "contaminate the sample" (twitter) during the classical period. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I suppose you've never been to Pompeii, then. More people were literate than we tend to think. Even the prostitutes at Pompeii could write. The grafitti there brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'Vulgar Latin'. This was their LIBER FACIES, without the LOL FELES. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 23:38, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Birds-eye mapping has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence and is entirely having to do with culture. If nobody you know has ever used a birds-eye map, it's not intuitively obvious. RNealK (talk) 05:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

What other kinds of maps could there have been besides birds-eye maps? They would be mapping on a 2D surface, not in 3D, and just drawing a picture of the landscape is not really a map, nor is it helpful. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 15:05, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I thank you all (plural). Personally, considering your opinions, I think it is more probably they used maps (sometimes perhaps only sketchs) on a table as in WWII, as in the film called "Downfall". I don't think they used wax tablets because they are useful to write message/order to a person, but not to show your battle plans and to discuss about them: they are too small. About birds-eye maps, it is a good matter, but I don't know anything about ancient's minds. Thank you again. --Innocenti Erleor (talk) 19:58, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Another kind of ancient map, of sorts, is a Periplus, which is not quite a map in the modern sense, but a list of landmarks and cities and ideally distances between various places. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:02, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Art hunt - painting of slave beating

Several years ago I remember coming across a disturbing painting of a slave beating, which I thought I had seen on WP; but a look through the Slavery in the United States article and the associated media on Wikimedia Commons fails to turn it up. Wonder if any of you guys know this painting - I can't find it with Google Images.

As best I recall, it was a well-detailed contemporary painting, from say the 1820's to 1850's, done in vivid colors, perhaps oils, representing a scene the artist had witnessed somewhere in the South. At left, a fashionably dressed young man in a broad-brimmed hat, smoking a cigar I think, impassively leans against a house or shed while at right, a writhing African slave is held down on the ground by fellow slaves while being whipped/beaten/tortured. A terrible scene, but what makes it truly shocking is the utter nonchalance of the young man, possibly the slave's owner, who stands by with a slightly bored, detached look on his face.

Ring a bell for any art historians out there? Appreciate your help in locating this image again.Textorus (talk) 19:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Beating at Four Stakes in the Colonies --Viennese Waltz 20:06, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

That was quick, thanks. But although it presents a similar scene, it's not the same painting. The one I recall doesn't have women and children, and instead of a lot of sky, there was greenery in the background. And the focus was more "close-up" on the human figures. Appreciate the suggestion, though. Textorus (talk) 20:12, 17 March 2013 (UTC)