Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2015 June 7

Humanities desk
< June 6	<< May | June | Jul >>	June 8 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

June 7

I am looking for a good quote about death for a eulogy or funeral memorial.

Can anyone suggest a good quote about death ... something that would be appropriate for a eulogy or funeral memorial? Maybe something from Shakespeare, or from the Bible, or from some other source? If getting specific, the death of a parent or the death of one's mother. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:20, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Of course it would depend on the tone you wanted to set, but in general, I have always been partial to John Donne's "Death, be not proud", either in part or in whole. As for Bible verses, there are many, but again, context is important. If the decedent was an active Christian, I like Philippians 1:21-23 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better." (KJV) or Isaiah 57:1-2 "The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death." (NIV) For general assurance/comfort/hope there's Job 19:25-25 "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God" (KJV). Some people like 1 Corinthians 15:50-57. I heard this recently: "They say you die twice. One time when you stop breathing and a second time, a bit later on, when somebody says your name for the last time." used to encourage attendees to continue sharing memories and stories of the departed with loved ones even after the funeral.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 06:25, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Some of the above are included in the Anglican Funeral Sentences (BTW William Croft wrote a wonderful choral setting of these which are always used at British state funerals - the most moving music I've ever heard or ever will probably [1]). Alansplodge (talk) 16:55, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Here are a few things about mothers for funerals. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:26, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Not at all Shakespearean or Biblical, but I like Joyce Grenfell's If I Should Go, which I would have liked to have read at my mother's funeral if I'd known about it at the time. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:31, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

As others have said, it all depends on the tone you want to set, and how you (and those present) want to remember the person - as religious, non-religious, fun-loving, well-read, etc etc. - or not. There are many, many, websites, with a huge variety of options. A couple of examples are here and here but there are many more. Some of us do this a lot. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:49, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the above suggestions. I will review them. I will clarify a few points. perhaps not clear in my original post. First, I would like to find a short quote ... perhaps one or two sentences long. Something (relatively) short that can fit on a prayer card or a memorial card (in other words, not an entire poem ... but just a line or two). Second, as far as tone: I really hadn't given that any thought. I just assumed (incorrectly) that the tone I had in mind would be the same tone that anyone would have in mind. So, my tone is: something along the lines of these themes: (1) how we often look at death as sad, but we really shouldn't do so; (2) death is not the "end", but rather the "beginning" of the deceased person's "new" life (in heaven); (3) a reflection of how much better our lives have been for having known this person, the deceased; (4) how life is so short and even, say, fifty years or eighty years can go by so fast; since life is so sort, to value every moment and appreciate what you have; (5) how death is a natural cycle, much like the cycle of a flower (or such); the circle of life. Things like that. Basically, the card would have a photo of the deceased, and I'd like to add a nice quote (one or two lines, not an entire poem) under the photo. My first preference was for something by Shakespeare or something from the Bible, but any appropriate quotation would do. If it matters, this would serve for a Roman Catholic faith family. I want the tone to be perhaps: serious, classy, elegant, thoughtful, insightful, religious, thought-provoking, somber, uplifting, hopeful, reflective, bittersweet, etc. Not fun-loving or cutesy or whimsical. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:22, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Some that were on our list for a similar personal occasion recently that might fit your numbers 2 and 3. And very sorry for the loss. 184.147.134.128 (talk) 19:18, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

2. Psalm 121:8 The Lord will keep your going out and your coming in from this time on and forevermore.

2. All Creatures of our God and King (paraphrase of Francis of Assisi’s Canticle of the Sun): And thou, most kind and gentle death, / waiting to hush our latest breath, / Thou leadest home the child of God, / and Christ our Lord the way hath trod.

3. The Parting Glass: Oh, all the comrades that e'er I had / They're sorry for my going away / And all the sweethearts that e'er I had / They'd wish me one more day to stay / But since it falls unto my lot / That I should rise and you should not / I'll gently rise and softly call / Good night and joy be with you all.

Thanks for your condolences. Much appreciated. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:37, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

• A slightly different approach, I did the readings in the Catholic funeral mass for my sister. From the New Testament I read the KJV 1 Corinthians 13 but changed the word charity to love, which is used more often in modern translations. One thing is that for the funeral mass you need the priest's dispensation to read the King James, since the Rheims-Douai Bible is the authorized Catholic version. μηδείς (talk) 00:48, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

You don't need to take the whole poem, just because it's there. Common in cards and other media pressed for space to just snip a verse or two. As long you don't cut in the middle of a couplet, it should be fine. I mean, unless you'd really rather not, of course. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:12, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, of course. Similar to a Shakespeare quote ... it would likely be one line snipped out of the entire play. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:00, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Though it's easier to skim and snip a given poem yourself. Shakespeare was a wordy guy. InedibleHulk (talk) 14:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes. But death (and "life" in general) is such a universal topic, I am sure that Shakespeare had something to say about it, somewhere. Perhaps in a play? Perhaps in a sonnet? And I was digging around to see if anyone knew anything good. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:36, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I remember him saying something about a mortal coil, but it wasn't exactly uplifting. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:48, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

She always leaned to watch for us

Anxious if we were late,

In winter by the window,

In summer by the gate.

And though we mocked her tenderly

Who had such foolish care,

The long way home would seem more safe,

Because she waited there.

I like the way that one rhymes, but no pressure. Tastes are personal. Eight lines, but just a couple of sentences. Has a second part. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:52, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

More to what you asked for, here are William Shakespeare quotes about death, from WikiQuote. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:56, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Very helpful and much appreciated. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:45, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Looking for a quote

I remember someone making the claim that all humor is based on pain of one sort or another but I can't recall the exact quote nor who said it. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Dismas|^(talk) 09:54, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

"Comedy Is Tragedy Plus Time". Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:00, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die." Mel Brooks did that one. There've probably been a few. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:15, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

When did the age of majority become 21?

Actually, I'm not concerned so much with when it happened as how we decided on 21. 50.43.33.62 (talk) 13:08, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Which country are you talking about? Age of majority notes that different countries have different ages of majority, including a number with it set to 21. Different countries will have different reasons for setting their age of majority at the time they do. - Your IP geolocates to the US, so I'm guessing you're not talking about the "age of majority" (the point where one is considered an adult), which is 18 for much of the United States, but rather the age of license for consumption of alcoholic beverages, which is 21 for much of the United States. For the latter, Alcohol laws of the United States notes that in 1984 the US Federal government passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act, which withheld national transportation funds from states which did not have a drinking age set to at least 21. The reason for the age 21 is partly due to a return to earlier laws which had the drinking age set to 21. At the time of these earlier laws, prior to the 26th Amendment, the age of majority (or at least the voting age) in the US was 21. I'm unsure of why the age of majority was set to 21 in the early days of the United States. Perhaps someone else has more information. -- 162.238.240.55 (talk) 13:30, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

According to this site, "The concept that a person becomes a full adult at age 21 dates back centuries in English common law; 21 was the age at which a person could, among other things, vote and become a knight." There is a lot more information in this book, mentioning that the age 21 was considered significant back in the 13th century in England. The reason for choosing 21 rather than, say, 20, is obscure, but may be related to a Roman practice of dividing youth into periods of seven years (3x7=21). Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:13, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

We have articles, Coming of age and Age of majority, which led me to Person_(canon_law)#Age_of_Majority which says: "The age of majority in the Catholic Church is 18,(ref)1983 Code of Canon Law, can. 97(ref) following the general consensus of Civil law, though, until Advent 1983,(ref)Ap. Const. Sacrae Disciplinae Leges(ref) the Age of Majority was 21,(ref)1917 Code of Canon Law, can. 88(ref) based on the age of majority according to Roman Law."

Since the early US legislators tended to follow English Common Law and England was a Catholic country awhile back before then, that seems to be a likely origin. Alansplodge (talk) 16:13, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Some contradiction to my previous post: Young People’s Human Rights and the Politics of Voting Age by Sonja C. Grover says, "Under Roman law, the basis of civil law in Europe, a person came of age or reached majority and acquired full civil and legal rights at age 25... Under English common law, men and women came of age at 21, which was regarded as the average age at which a person reached full maturity and discretion. English common law divided the twenty one years from birth to adulthood into three seven year periods: infancy, childhood and adolescence" (p. 21). This is a direct quote from Youth's Battle for the Ballot: A History of Voting Age in America by Wendell W. Cultice. Alansplodge (talk) 16:41, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

The Institutes of Roman Law by Rudloph Sohm, James Crawford Ledlie, Bernhard Erwin Grueber agrees: "The above-mentioned lex Plaetoria was the first to fix the limit of age at 25 years..." (p. 218). Alansplodge (talk) 16:41, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

• See also defence of infancy and the Jesuit maxim, "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man." μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

You can do a few things "normal minors" can't if you're emancipated. In America, aside from getting parental consent, it's the only way to be "Old enough to kill, but not for votin'" since 1971. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Approximate number of STANAG magazines manufactured annually in the US

I'm trying to find the approximate number of STANAG magazines manufactured annually in the US. Alternatively, the total number of such magazines sold annually in the United States would also suffice as an approximation, since the import/export factor is essentially negligible due to ITAR restrictions. I found some excellent data[2][3][4] on the number of firearms manufactured, but can't seem to find any useful data regarding magazines. My other car is a cadr (talk) 14:10, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Handcuffing after shooting

Why do police in America handcuff suspects after they've been shot by an officer? 94.10.243.44 (talk) 19:01, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

See this article which explains the training they receive in the US. Nanonic (talk) 19:04, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Would this apply even if they weren't shot too? Are all suspects always handcuffed in the U.S. I know in some countries, they only handcuff if the officer determines that the suspect poses a risk to the safety of officers. 94.10.243.44 (talk) 19:21, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

At least based on TV shows, I think they're always handcuffed. Sometimes they also get a perp walk. 50.0.136.194 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 19:32, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

One of the reasons they have lawyer-negotiated voluntary surrender of wanted suspects/people for whom arrest warrants have been issued is that it may allow the suspect to walk into court without the stigma of being escorted handcuffed. μηδείς (talk) 21:58, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

International arbitration

Do we have an article on arbitration between nations, when two nations agree to refer their dispute to a world leader from a third country instead of settling it themselves? See, for example, the Pig War, a minor US-UK dispute that was arbitrated by the German Emperor. We have an international arbitration article, but it's all about commercial disputes involving international trade, where a company from one country gets into arbitration through another country's courts — not at all the same. Nyttend (talk) 20:36, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, most similar voluntary but binding arbitration nowadays over territorial disputes or similar matters happens somewhere like the International Court of Justice or the Permanent Court of Arbitration. Since we don't seem to have an article covering this (it probably should be in international arbitration), I doubt we have an article covering the historic practice. Nil Einne (talk) 00:47, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I should perhaps clarify that I believe technically cases voluntarily take to the ICJ may still be considered court cases rather than arbitration. Also by voluntary but binding I mean where there was no existing agreement, nor any aspect of international law or anything else that requires them to settle it that way but where the state parties agree to do so and agree that they will be bound by the decision (though even with ICJ cases, enforcement is not easy if the party changes their mind albeit for many countries strong international pressure may result). Nil Einne (talk) 04:37, 8 June 2015 (UTC)