Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2018 March 10

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March 10

Do French families bear collective responsibility for income tax?

Hello. Sorry if my question sounds stupid, but I've not been successful in finding the answer. In France personal income tax is imposed on families rather than individuals. So, if a French citizen living an extravagant lifestyle and/or abusing alcohol refuses to pay his income tax share, do his family members have to pay it in his stead on pain of legal consequences? --Синкретик (talk) 14:51, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello, don't have the answer but am posting a basic reference: the French wikipedia article on the personal income tax Impôt sur le revenu (France) FYI, the French wiki also has a reference desk: l'Oracle.70.67.222.124 (talk) 17:09, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

By family, what is included is a spouse and any dependents living together. It does not include grown-up children living on their own, siblings, cousins, etc. It doesn't matter how much you spend: you are liable for inclome tax on your revenues. Under French law, one spouse is liable for the unpaid income tax of the other. This ends when there is a divorce or legal separation. See here (in French) [1]. But I am not a lawyer (and not even French) so if the OP's interest in this is anything more than simple curiosity, he should consult a professional. --Xuxl (talk) 19:50, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

There is also an article here on the English wikipedia although it doesn't really answer the question of what happens when one member refuses to pay Taxation in France#Income taxes. This from KMPG [2] says "Married couples are required to file jointly - exceptions are allowed only under very limited circumstances.". It also has some details on ages for children to be included as dependents. Complete OR, but I would imagine the most common way to handle a situation like the OP outlines would be a civil case and divorce. As for any dependent children, such issues would likely be handled via child support. (But in any case, it's fairly unlikely the children are going to be a reason to have to pay more tax.) Nil Einne (talk) 03:45, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Looking at it from that angle, it seems that it's simply the case that "Married filing separately" is not normally allowed as it is in the US. So it doesn't sound like something extraordinary compared with the US, where you report all income and pay the tax accordingly (or get a refund, as the case may be). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:19, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

While we have specific rules about offering medical or legal advice, financial and tax advice don’t get the same respect. Contact a tax professional, if you want specific tax advice. Don’t ask Wikipedians! DOR (HK) (talk) 09:07, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Tax advice is a type of legal advice. --69.159.62.113 (talk) 11:00, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Wouldn't filing for divorce be a disproportionate way of handling this situation, especially if young children are involved? Anyway, the cost of the divorce might be greater than the outstanding tax. 86.155.146.232 (talk) 12:25, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Well no one said it's all about the tax. For many people, when their spouse is refusing to contribute to their partnership, it's a serious matter. This may or may not be financially depending on the specifics of the relationship, and may includes things like a joint account for at least part of any earnings, but if both people are happy with whatever arrangement they have, the OP's question simply does not arise. It only arises if one of the spouses isn't satisfied with whatever the other spouse is contributing and doing as part of the relationship. There are various means to try and resolve this e.g. couples counselling. But ultimately if the spouse won't change and the other spouse is unable to accept the nature of their relationship, divorce is hardly an uncommon outcome. Some things common among the French people may be a bit weird to anglophones, but I think you'll find expecting their spouse to actually be part of the partnership rather than just fooling around on their own is one thing they both have in common, as with most of the world. It's frequently regarded as important for the children too, hence why there often are laws which allow a parent to be forced to contribute financially if they are able to and if they don't do so willing. In the past, divorce was taboo enough that even if one partner was hardly contributing, the couple may 'stay together for the kids' but this is a lot less common now for many reasons in a lot of the world. (This doesn't mean all couples especially with children separate willy nilly, but the scenario the OP outlines doesn't sound like a minor thing.) Nil Einne (talk) 13:01, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Naming system for variations of musical modes

I'm attempting to understand the naming system used for variations of musical modes, in particular some of the names listed in the tables at Mode (music)#Other types.

There's a good chance I am misunderstanding something, but to me it seems there is an inconsistency between the system used in the first and second tables in that section, and the system used in the third table.

For example, consider the variations of the Locrian mode listed in that section. The Locrian mode itself looks like this:

1 ♭2 ♭3 4 ♭5 ♭6 ♭7

One of the modes listed in the second table is "Locrian ♯6":

1 ♭2 ♭3 4 ♭5 6 ♭7

This is the same as the Locrian mode except that the sixth scale degree is raised a half step, hence the "♯6" in the name. Similarly, in the first table, "Phrygian ♯6" (1 ♭2 ♭3 4 5 6 ♭7) is the same as the Phrygian mode (1 ♭2 ♭3 4 5 ♭6 ♭7) except that the sixth degree is raised a half-step. So the "♯6" is describing the adjustment to the sixth degree with respect to the normal Locrian or Phrygian mode.

But in the third table we have "Locrian ♮6 ♮3":

1 ♭2 3 4 ♭5 6 ♭7

Here the same modification to the sixth degree is described as "♮6" instead of "♯6". In other words, it appears to be describing the adjustment to the sixth degree with respect to the major scale, not the Locrian mode.

The third table also contains "Locrian 3 7":

1 ♭2 3 4 ♭5 ♭6 7

Here the third and seventh degrees are lowered a half step from the normal Locrian mode. If the variations were described with respect to the Locrian mode, as in the first two tables, I would expect this to be called "Locrian ♭3 ♭7", not "Locrian 3 7". The "3 7" seems to imply that the third and seventh degrees are lowered a whole step from the normal Locrian mode, which would result in 1 ♭2 3 4 ♭5 ♭6 7.

Am I correct that there is an inconsistency in notation here? If so, is one or the other of these naming systems considered more "standard" than the other? —Bkell (talk) 17:27, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Finding K-12 student work about the US-Mexico border from students in US and Mexico

I am interested in finding already published student work produced by K-12 students in both the US and Mexico about life near the border - to include art work, prose, poetry, video. Any ideas on good sources to go about for this search? I've attempted Google Scholar, but I'm not sure I have been using the right terms or if there is a better place to look.--73.93.154.182 (talk) 20:16, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

How about using "contest" as a key word? For example, googling student poetry contest winners arizona brings up these poems about life in the Sonoran desert. You could sub in art or writing for poetry and the names of different American and Mexican states.70.67.222.124 (talk) 23:02, 10 March 2018 (UTC)