Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 October 22

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

October 22

Turkish to English, an encyclopedic synopsis request

Greetings,

Following is research paper in Turkish language from Turkish Studies journal from International Balkan University available on the link given is about linguistics of words 'Uragut' and 'avret'.

I am looking for help in having encyclopedic synopsis for the same in one or two paragraphs to be used in the article Draft:Aurats (word)

• Turkish Studies - International Periodical For The Languages, Literature and History of Turkish or Turkic Volume 8/9 Summer 2013, p. 2659-2669, ANKARA-TURKEY An Old Turkic Word About Woman: Uragut ~ Nurhan GÜNER P.2659-2669 DOI Language Turkish: KADINLA İLGİLİ ESKİ TÜRKÇE BİR KELİME: URAGUT

On side note: My strong gut feeling is similar research papers would be there in Persian languages too, I hope one day We get some help from Persian language linguists

Thanks,

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 15:45, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

The conclusion of the paper is that avrat/avret is borrowed from Arabic and is not related to Old Turkic uragut. In English, the term corresponding to Turkish avret is usually spelled awrah or awrat; see Intimate parts in Islam. The etymon is Arabic عَوْرَة (ʿawra), plural عَوْرَات‎ (ʿawrāt). I suppose you are interested in the shift in meaning to "woman", seen also in Hindi/Urdu. In view of this geographic dispersion, it seems plausible this shift already occurred in Persian, but neither the Persian Wikipedia nor the Persian Wiktionary give any hint in this direction.  --Lambiam 10:20, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Turkish to English, an encyclopedic synopsis request 2

Greetings,

'Evliya Çelebi Seyahatnamesine Göre 17. Yüzyılda Osmanlı Devleti’nde Kadın.' is a Turkish language research paper by author Osman Köse, available here @ turkishstudies.net of International Balkan University.

The research paper seem to have 17 th century information related to clothing practices and slavery of Circassian women. Looking for help in in having encyclopedic synopsis for the same in one or two paragraphs to be used in the article Draft:Circassian women.

Thanks

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 16:46, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Architectural term for a specific door arrangement needed

Hello, I am looking for an architectural term that describes a specific layout situation which seems to be rather common (though obviously not ideal) in bedrooms in private homes in the U.S., specifically in smaller homes. I mean a situation where there is an oddly placed closet in the room that doesn't leave for the door swing more room than a small square of floor (like 3x3″). So on entering the room, you would first pass a niche-like area (where you in some cases even have to turn 90 degrees) before entering the room proper.

An architect whom I asked called this, on the top of his head, "pocketed door", while admitting that this is not an official term. "Pocketed door" also didn't give me any Google hits. Is there an architectural term? --Stilfehler (talk) 17:02, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

In form, if not in purpose, such space is similar to a vestibule, which refers to a smaller space near the entrance through which to must pass to enter the larger space. Usually a vestibule refers to such a space at the entrance to a building, before one gets to the lobby, but it would be similar in form to what you are describing. That may give you a start. A pocket door is something quite different. --Jayron32 17:43, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

• 
• 

I added two images (which I should have done right away). The extra spaces that I mean are, unlike regular vestibules, not meant to be there but obvious design goofs that arise when an unskilled builder adds a closet right next to a door. This appears to be something that happens so frequently that it would puzzle me if there is no common name for this phenomenon. --Stilfehler (talk) 18:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

If it's a "design goof" then it is a sui generis element, and not likely to have a name. If it is an intentional design choice, then it isn't a goof, and may (but does not have to) have a name. --Jayron32 18:22, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

In these examples, is the door on the left a door to the exterior? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:20, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

No, both of them connect the hallway and a bedroom (as seen from the bedroom). In both examples it's a closet that causes the unwanted "vestibule". --Stilfehler (talk) 21:50, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps an intention could be to add a small degree of privacy, in that someone opening the door is immediately confronted by blank wall (as in the right-hand picture) or at least has part of the view obscured, and has to advance to see the main area of the room (and what any occupants might be doing in it). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.128.151 (talk) 01:07, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

It's rather the sort of thing one sees in Britain in small hotels or HMO's where a shower or loo has been shoe-horned into a room to make it en-suite. DuncanHill (talk) 16:06, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

I was wondering for a moment why Britain has health maintenance organizations (health insurance companies) with showers. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 16:39, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

An architect would usually call it an alcove (IAAA (I am an architect)). They're useful in corner rooms to get to a corridor without eating into usable space in another room, and when opening out into a corridor they're useful to keep passers-by from getting whacked in the nose by an opening door. COrner rooms can be a major layout issue, so we try to put big rooms there so they don't need an alcove ort a stub corridor to get to them. I would never call those examples pocketed doors, at least not in North America. In the cases shown, it's just probably a layout problem of where to put a closet that creates such a circumstance, and in any case the space occupied by the door's swing isn't usable for anything else, whether it's in an alcove or in the room. As others have pointed out, they can also be useful as vision traps. The example shown on the left could not be used in a commercial or accessible residential setting, since it's too hard to get to it and open them in a wheelchair - you need ~18" or ~0.5m side clearance at the latch side so you don't have to back up to get out of the door's way as it swings. Acroterion (talk) 00:47, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

That seems to nail it. All examples that I have seen (and shown here) are corner rooms that open into very small hallways, and the builder obviously had a hard time to find a better spot for the closet. --Stilfehler (talk) 13:44, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

That's one practical reason why corner offices are desirable - they usually have to be bigger than their neighbors down the hall, and of course they've got two walls of glass. When laying out spaces we usually sort out the larger spaces first and dispose of the corners. Acroterion (talk) 23:20, 28 October 2021 (UTC)