Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 April 1

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 1

What does 'cultural pathology' means?

I did come across terms 'cultural pathology', 'Culturopathy' and 'Culturopath'.

• Are those related terms to each other,
• What do those mean ?
• Relationship with Irrational beliefs, if any?

Thanks Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 06:13, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

You may find this interesting:[1] --<-Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots-> 06:36, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Bookku -- In the United States, the concept of cultural pathology was popularized by the Moynihan report (though I'm not sure whether it used that exact phrase). To my mind, a more valid example is the society explained in the book "The Moral Basis of a Backward Society"... -- AnonMoos (talk) 07:01, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

In medical jargon, -path, -pathy, and -pathology all refer to diseases (see [2]), from the Greek meaning "to suffer". (the ending also appears in terms like "empathy" and "sympathy", meaning roughly "to suffer with" and "to suffer alongside"). In the medical sense, you see terms like "neuropathy", meaning "disease of the nerves", for example. When I do a google search for your terms, they all seem to relate, in a metaphorical sense, to the medical uses, so something that is "culturopathic" is a "diseased culture", and it seems to refer to harmful cultures or cultural practices. See, for example, [3] "We can use the term 'culturopathic' to describe any culture that results in harm", or [4] "Culturopathy is the "pathology" of an intersubjective system. When individuals or groups of people experience pathology in their social dimension". Since pathology is the study of the causes and effects of disease, the term "cultural pathology" seems to be used to indicate "the study of diseases of a culture", which is to say the attempt to diagnose the causes and effects of harmful practices within a culture, a very closely related term, "Social pathology", is defined here in ways that I am seeing the term "cultural pathology" used in various Google searches (though I can't find an overt definition.) --Jayron32 12:19, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain you meant "medical" jargon, but medial does make for an amusing typo as it ties in to your later points (and onward to pathologization). Matt Deres (talk) 15:35, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

So corrected. --Jayron32 15:41, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I think these terms have no precise meaning. By equating an aspect of a culture to a sickness, people who use terms like cultural pathology or culturopathy do so to flag it as something one should condemn. It is a form of swearing using printable words. A culturopath would be a person who is culturally aligned with a culturopathy.  --Lambiam 12:31, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

African countries and death penalty and Islam.

I'm looking at death penalty in Africa, and Egypt it a big player for the death penalty. The countries that still have the death penalty appear to be Islamic countries to me. Just out of curiosity, what Islamic countries are against the death penalty? Even outside of Africa? And, I imagine you can't define all countries as 100% Islam or not, so could there be African countries against the death penalty but are only partially Islamic? (Not an April Fool's joke question.). 67.165.185.178 (talk) 10:28, 1 April 2022 (UTC).

Well there isn't any Capital punishment in Albania. There's a short discussion at Capital punishment in Islam#Capital punishment in Muslim-majority nations, and Muslim world gives you demographics to help you decide what you want to call an Islamic country.  Card Zero  (talk) 11:22, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Morocco is another example. I suggest you take a look at Capital punishment by country. Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:27, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I was also fascinated with jurisdictions that recently decided to bring back the death penalty. Afaik, that has never happened in the U.S. states before. But I saw this in the chronology excerpt article: "Where a country has abolished, re-instated, and abolished again (e.g. Philippines, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy) only the later abolition date is included. Countries which have abolished and since reinstated (e.g. Liberia) are not included."

So it looks like only 5 countries have decided to bring back the death penalty, but 4 of them got rid of if for a 2nd time. 67.165.185.178 (talk) 11:52, 1 April 2022 (UTC).

If the bloodthirsty leader of a coup overthrowing the democratically elected government reinstates capital punishment, can one say then that "the country" decided to bring back the death penalty?  --Lambiam 14:23, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

"The Country" means many different things, but in the context of "The country <has a certain law>" the context means "The state" and not "the population". Insofar as the leadership of a coup has taken control of the machinery of state and is acting as the government of said country, and is able to enforce their position as such, then in this context, that's "The country". Saying "Freedonia decided to bring back the death penalty" doesn't mean that all of the people collectively and with one mind made such a decision, it means "The state/government of Freedonia decided to", and insofar as a group of people has the power to enact and enforce such statutes, they are the de facto state/government of Freedonia. How they got that power (by election, by inheritance, or by force) may have some effect on how people feel about them, but the reality of their power doesn't change based on feelings. This is covered quite well in the wikipedia article Sovereignty. --Jayron32 15:48, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I have no issue with a factual formulation like, "the country reinstated the death penalty". But if the verb "decide" is used, I find it less appropriate in such a situation to use "the country" as its subject. If the authoritative dictator exercising sovereignty suffered from indecisiveness-induced insomnia, one would also not write, "after many sleepless nights, the country decided ...". This issue is not dealt with in the article Sovereignty.  --Lambiam 22:24, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Anthropomorphising corporate entities such as companies, organizations, governments, and yes, countries, is a common enough thing in English. The fact that an abstract concept does not possess an independent brain doesn't mean that we don't use words like "decide" based on the the actions undertaken by people and done in the name of that entity. To say something like "The company decided to enter a new market" is well understood to mean "The people who are in a decision making capacity in the company so decided". It's the same with country. We all understand that a country has no corporeal existence, that it is not a person with a brain and a body, and that real people with real brains and bodies do the work of making decisions for that country. --Jayron32 13:51, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

67.165.185.187 -- There was a pause in the U.S. due to Furman v. Georgia (1972-1976), after which some states brought the death penalty back... AnonMoos (talk) 14:59, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

What play did Margaret Lloyd George see several times?

In a letter dated 5th March, on 10 Downing Street notepaper, Margaret Lloyd George writes:

Dear Mr Grossmith,
Thank you so much for the chocolates last night. It was kind of you to send them. We thoroughly enjoyed the play. I have seen it several times, and we often hear it on the electro phone here in Downing Street.
With renewed thanks from me & my daughter & son & future daughter in-law all in the box last night
Yours v sincerely
M. Lloyd George

I would like to know the play! We can narrow things down a bit: Now, the Lloyd Georges moved into No. 10 in December 1916, and left in October 1922. George Grossmith died in 1912, so Mr Grossmith must be his brother Weedon Grossmith, who died on the 14th June 1919. I would think the daughter will be Olwen, and the son and future daughter in-law Richard and Roberta, who were married on 7 April 1917. Gwilym was not married until 1921. So I think that gives us March 1917. The electro phone was an apparatus for listening to plays, concerts, church services, and the like, over the telephone line. I rather think that Grossmith was the lessee of Terry's Theatre at the time, so it is possible that he wasn't actually in the play. So - can anyone name the play? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 15:04, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

There's George Grossmith Jr., who co-wrote The Bing Boys Are Here which played at the Alhambra on Saturday March 3rd 1917 - or at least that's what I make of the following bad OCR from The Stage published on the first of March: "The Otter Bmg Boys . Mr . Oswald StolJ will presenit Grossmith and Laurillard ' s revue , ' The Bihg Boys , on Saturday crrcning". I suppose this is wrong because it was a revue, and thus too lowbrow and musical to call a play. (Also because the 3rd is not the 4th and thus is not "last night".)  Card Zero  (talk) 16:14, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

You might play with the British Newspaper archive advanced search. For example, trying the keywords Weedon Grossmith, setting the publication place to London and the date from March 1 to 4, 1917, I found this snippet from the Daily Mirror for March 3 under “London Amusements”: “... IRENE VANBRUGH as Norali Marsh. Matinee, Thursdays and Saturdays. at 2.30. LAYHOUSE. 2.30 and 8.30. THE MISLEADING LADY. Weedon Grossmith, Malcolm Cherry. atinees. Thursday and Saturdays, at 2.30. (Ger. 3 9701 UEEN'S, W. THE DOUBLE EVENT. A New Four-Act ...”. Don’t have subscription though, for actual article you’ll need WP:RX. The Misleading Lady is mentioned in Weedon Grossmith’s article. (didn’t try George) 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:04, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Malcolm Cherry and Gladys Cooper in The Misleading Lady, "is whimsically declared to be amusing just because it is crude. Yet it is impossible not to like The Misleading Lady". 46.102.221.177 (talk) 17:17, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

George Grossmith Jr changes our timeframe - it could then be any 5th March from 1917 up to and including 1921. Indeed "son and future daughter in-law" would make sense for Gwilym and Edna 1921 (they married in June). That was a Saturday, so last night would be a Friday. Thinking about it, a Sunday in wartime does seem unlikely for Margaret to be going to a show. In 1921 George Jr was in partnership with Edward Laurillard at (I think) the Apollo, the Shaftesbury, and the Winter Garden. By 1921 Olwen was in India (and indeed gave birth to Eluned on the 3rd March) so the daughter would have been Megan. DuncanHill (talk) 19:00, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Right, same archive search for George Grossmith in London in the first five days of March 1921 returns The Naughty Princess: "THE NAUGHTY PRINCESS. tJ W. H. BERRY. Lily St. John. Amy Augarde. GEORGE GROSSMITH. Nightly, at 8. Mats. Wed. Sat., at 2". Better? 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Ah thank you! Yes, that looks good. DuncanHill (talk) 19:15, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Very fun question! 70.67.193.176 (talk) 23:56, 2 April 2022 (UTC)