Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 March 31

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March 31

Was Professor Conway related to Professor Conway?

Were Robert Seymour Conway, Liberal candidate for the Combined English Universities in 1929, and Martin Conway, Unionist candidate for the Combined English Universities in 1929, related? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 00:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

According to our articles Robert Conway was born in Stoke Newington, and his father was a Congregationalist minister, Samuel Conway (according to the article about his sister Katharine Glasier). Martin Conway was born in Rochester and his father was William Conway (also a minister, but presumably Anglican). So they do not seem to be related, no. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:38, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

None of that precludes them being related. DuncanHill (talk) 14:09, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

How far back do you want to go, to determine whether they are 'related'? AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:21, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

I was using the word in its everyday, not its ferociously pedantic, sense. Was there a relationship of which they were, or would have been likely, to be aware - eg cousinage of varying degree, or "Oh yes, we're both descended from n or m Conway". The sense in which everybody who isn't a RefDesker understands it. DuncanHill (talk) 14:28, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

It's also worth pointing out that Conway (surname) is a fantastically common name, with several different origins (either Scottish or Irish); maybe not "Smith" or "Jones" level common, but common enough that I would, myself, never presume that two random Conways were related in any meaningful way. When I hear "professor Conway", my mind goes to John Conway before anyone else, and I don't know that he has any relation to either of the above professors Conway. Just as a data point, This random, non-comprehensive genealogy website has over 200,000 individuals named Conway in their database. In the U.S. alone, there were over 40,000 Conways in the 2000 and 2010 censuses:[1]. --Jayron32 16:16, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

I've never heard of your Professor Conway, and I can't say I've ever even met a Conway. But there you are. DuncanHill (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Anyway, I didn't find much except that the Reverend William Conway has a monument in St Margaret's, Westminster. The other one's dad, Samuel Conway, was a leading light in the founding of the Congregational Memorial Hall in Farringdon Street, London [2]. Given the tribal nature of religion in Victorian England, it seems a little unlikely that they were closely related, but if so, it would have made for an uncomfortable Christmas Dinner. Alansplodge (talk) 15:04, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. What triggered my question is that I know David Lloyd George wrote to Martin Conway shortly after the election, saying (amongst other things) that he was sorry that the other Conway wasn't elected as well (it was a two member seat, Martin Conway (nominally Unionist but would have stood as a Liberal if asked) and Eleanor Rathbone (an Independent) were elected, the other Conway came third, and another Unionist came fourth). If the Tories hadn't put up two candidates it's quite possible both Conways would have got in. DuncanHill (talk) 16:40, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

That may have also been Lloyd George noting the two unrelated Conways as a happy coincidence. I'm reminded of the band Duran Duran, which was once 60% surnamed Taylor, all of whom were unrelated... --Jayron32 17:17, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Is Meena Aryan or Dravidian?

Is Meena Aryan or Dravidian? -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 09:41, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

According to fr:Meena, Aryan. --KnightMove (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

... which means they speak (several of a large variety of) Indo-Aryan languages; for example, the Meena in Mewat are likely to speak Mewati, and so on. -- 15:38, 31 March 2022 Lambiam

@KnightMove: Ji, But this source is telling them Dravidian people. -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 01:23, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

No it isn't. "Early views of the Minas held that they were among the oldest inhabitants of the region and represented pre-Dravidian elements in the population." "Minas, depending on where they live in Rajasthan, speak various dialects of Rajasthani, which itself is a regional variant of Hindi." --KnightMove (talk) 02:26, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@KnightMove: Please tell me on the basis of this website. -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 18:21, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Look at this book at 130 and tell what is written in it? -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 19:05, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Well, I honestly don't care. --KnightMove (talk) 03:42, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@KnightMove: You haven't answered my question. Aryans or Dravidians? -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 04:48, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

The trouble with this desk is not that people don't care to answer questions but remove the answers, leading to days of pointless discussion. Readers don't know this is happening because they don't check the history. For example, someone answered this question two hours after it was asked, but "Viennese Waltz" removed the answer without explanation one minute later. This same "Viennese Waltz" did this to me as well yesterday. You can recover the academic paper resolving your query by checking the history (the answer was posted at 11:47 Thursday). @Karsan Chanda: 2A00:23A8:4015:F500:5875:5A25:6319:EA26 (talk) 14:30, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

References

dictator trap

Would that be worthy of an article?Ericdec85 (talk) 10:56, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

I think this is a recent coinage by Brian Klaas. Could be worth adding to that article as a section, and creating a page as a redirect to that same article.  Card Zero  (talk) 11:20, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

The article by Klaas is cited in the section Illusion of control § Occurrence. However, the term "dictator trap" has also been used for the degeneration of an initially benevolent exercise of power into corruption, cronyism and nepotism.^[3] The trap identified by Klaas is not the only possible dictator trap. Another one (which can also refer to Putin) is getting trapped in an information bubble, an echo chamber of yes men.  --Lambiam 15:58, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, all we have is WP:NEOLOGISM-type stuff. It's not even a concept with a consistent definition, never mind one that has entered into wide enough use to even begin to think about developing a proper encyclopedia article about. --Jayron32 16:04, 31 March 2022 (UTC)