Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 March 3

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March 3

Robespierre

I remember reading that Robespierre planned to kill half of the population of France but I'm not able to find actual references for it. Is this a real thing? Thank you! --87.16.54.149 (talk) 21:38, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

It's a real thing. The sentence is one by Edme-Bonaventure Courtois in his report on the papers left after Robespierre's death. It comes after considerations - made by Courtois - about the (occupied) Continent's demographics together with the hardships endured because of an ongoing blockade. Courtois' level of expertise remains mostly undecided and in most sources absolutely most often implicitly refuted. Other opinions are also liable to be found however. --Askedonty (talk) 23:12, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

What, precisely, was the claim made by Courtois? Did he claim Robespierre actually had plans to have so many people executed, or was it that Courtois estimated that the execution of Robespierre's ill-advised reforms would (indirectly) be responsible for the demise of that many people, such as by causing widespread famine?  --Lambiam 00:47, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps you are thinking of Stéphane Courtois' preface to La Guerre de la Vendée et le système de dépopulation, a republication of Gracchus Babeuf's pamphlet? (see War in the Vendée#Genocide controversy) fiveby(zero) 06:26, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Numbers and opinions regarding War in the Vendée must have played a role and are mentioned later in text if I remember well, at least reports to Robespierre are reproduced in print in Bonaventure Courtois' report. --Askedonty (talk) 07:52, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Rapport fait au nom de la commission chargée..., don't see a translation. Can you give us a page number? fiveby(zero) 00:02, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

..Sorry I was away. I wouldn't have found the blogs as you did in fact. Great job! --Askedonty (talk) 19:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

It was more like wading through the blogs. fiveby(zero) 20:44, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Found via Webster, thanks for the pointer. fiveby(zero) 15:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

So Robespierre was a cut-rate, wannabe Thanos? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:33, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Either way, he hadn't planned on being in the half that got killed. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:40, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

The blogs are pointing to:

• Nesta Helen Webster's The French Revolution, which quotes from Courtois per Askedonty above: "ces hommes enfin, qui, pour nous amener au bonheur de Sparte voulaient anéantir douze ou quinze millions de Français".
• Hippolyte Taine's The History of French Revolution which points to:
• Louis Marie de La Révellière-Lépeaux Memoires quoting Jeanbon Saint-André "...for the the solid foundation of the Republic in France, the population should be reduced one-half."
• Gracchus Babeuf's Du Systeme de Depopulation (see fr:Populicide) which was hurriedly republished after Reynald Secher's A French Genocide: The Vendée

Was unable to find a good summary in English, hopefully someone else has better luck. For now i would encourage reading the WP articles on the authors. fiveby(zero) 15:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

For more details check this book and look for Babeuf: Hodges, Donald Clark (2003). Deep Republicanism: Prelude to Professionalism. Lexington Books. p. 233. ISBN 9780739130001. Clark Hodges 1923 Florida.Taksen (talk) 03:09, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Here is that passage in the Rapport itself.  --Lambiam 23:27, 5 March 2022 (UTC)