Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 March 4

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March 4

French royal inheritance

In early modern France, Salic law provided that those descended from the king through a woman (for example, his daughter's son) were ineligible to inherit the throne. Was female descent an absolute exclusion, or did descent from a female just not get counted for succession purposes? For example, if the king's daughter's daughter and the king's son's son married (with papal dispensation for the cousin marriage), their son would have female descent and male descent from his great-grandfather the king. Since he was a male-line descendent of the king, would his female descent from the king make him ineligible, regardless of his father's ancestry ("absolute exclusion"), or would he be eligible regardless of his mother's ancestry ("not counted for succession purposes")? 49.198.51.54 (talk) 20:35, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Not an answer, just adding a link: Salic_law#Applications_of_the_succession_and_inheritance_laws. The test cases were Philip V, Philip VI, and Henry IV.70.67.193.176 (talk) 20:51, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Don't know the exact details for France, but the general answer is "no" -- inheritance only goes down male lines of descent, but an individual having lines of ancestry other than the one through which he inherits would not be disqualifying. AnonMoos (talk) 23:30, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

To clarify, it is not that having a female line of descent disqualified a person from inheriting, it just didn't qualify them from inheriting. Several French kings had matrilineal lines that could also be traced back, but that didn't disqualify them. It was just ignored. The only thing that counted was pure patrilineal descent. The above noted Henry IV actually had a closer relative through his mother's side, but his actual claim to the throne came purely through male-line descent. Henry's male-line descent comes from Louis IX of France -> Robert, Count of Clermont --> Louis I, Duke of Bourbon --> James I, Count of La Marche --> John I, Count of La Marche --> Louis, Count of Vendôme --> John VIII, Count of Vendôme --> Francis, Count of Vendôme --> Charles, Duke of Vendôme --> Antoine of Navarre --> Henry IV, which makes 10 generations removed from a King of France in the male line. Believe it or not, that was actually the best that could be done after the death of Henry III in the purely male line. Henry also had a better claim through his mother's line from Charles VII of France --> Magdalena of Valois --> Catherine of Navarre --> Henry II of Navarre --> Jeanne d'Albret --> Henry IV, only 5 steps, but he couldn't count this because this is through the female lines. I believe that this was also the best claim including females. In terms of male-line descent, the next best claims go back so far, I can't find a better one. Louis IX was a grandson of Philip Augustus, who himself was the first person to call himself "King of France" rather than "King of the Franks". For all I know, other than Henry IV (and his various Bourbon cousins who also had claims), the next best claimant may very well have gone back to Charlemagne... --Jayron32 12:49, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

In 1589 the heir-general of Hugh Capet was Elizabeth I of England. If you mean the senior heir of the most recent non-Bourbon king of France with any surviving descendants, that was Isabella Clara Eugenia. – Other than Bourbons there seem to be no legitimate male-line Capetians then living. —Tamfang (talk) 03:20, 8 March 2022 (UTC)