Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 May 5

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May 5

Multiple resignations from the House of Commons

According to our article Lord Charles Beresford "In July 1889, Beresford resigned from the House of Commons for the first of four times (a record shared with only one other MP since 1880)..." Who was that other MP? And did any MPs before 1880 equal or exceed this record? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 18:27, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

If you start at Resignation from the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, it explains the rather arcane procedure one must go through to actually resign from Commons. For reasons that will become apparent, you'll likely find your answer at the articles List of stewards of the Chiltern Hundreds and List of stewards of the Manor of Northstead. --Jayron32 18:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

The other was probably William O'Brien. Valenciano (talk) 18:41, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

@Valenciano: Thank you, that looks right. DuncanHill (talk) 00:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The point being that one cannot "actually resign" from the House of Commons. There are reasons for involuntary expulsion; and there are ways of voluntarily arranging to put oneself in breach of the eligibility rules. The usual way is by accepting an office of profit under the Crown. Any office of profit will do, but the ones mentioned above are the usual goes-to. In the public's mind this is tantamount to resignation, but it is not a resignation in a formal sense. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:08, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

I did think of adding something on the lines of "I am well aware that one does not technically 'resign' from the Commons, having been told the procedure every time anyone has ever mentioned resignation from the House on tv, radio, in newsprint, on the internet, at school, over dinner, or down the pub, in my whole damn life", but thought that my regular readers would probably assume either that that was the case, or that I might have found out by myself already (perhaps even by reading the rest of the sentence I quoted in my initial question), but clearly I was wrong. DuncanHill (talk) 00:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

If a member of parliament refuses to do his job, would that result in expulsion? --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:04, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

No. There are no rules nor way to verify whether they're doing their job or not. My own MP was elected on an abstentionist platform so will never attend the parliament at all. Valenciano (talk) 07:50, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Wow. If a member of the Australian House of Representatives fails to turn up a certain number of times without leave from the Speaker, their seat would be declared vacant. (Of course, whether they do any work of consequence while they're there is another matter.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The U.S. Congress also has no automatic expulsion; the only way to expel a member is with a two-thirds vote of the house to which they belong. --47.147.118.55 (talk) 04:04, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I wonder how a stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds is more an "office of profit" than, say, a ministry. —Tamfang (talk) 00:51, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

I wonder why it specifies "since 1880", any idea? From the two lists that Jayron32 found, the maximum list appearances before that year is three (William_Graves_(MP) in 1783, 1784, 1798 and Edward_Rushworth_(politician) in 1781, 1790, 1797). And half a dozen twos.70.67.193.176 (talrk) 19:53, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Tragedies and Disasters

Besides the volcanic destruction of Pompeii, sinking of the Titanic, the 9/11 attacks and the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, have there been other tragedies and disasters around the world? 81.152.221.235 (talk) 21:18, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

You could start at Lists of disasters. --184.144.97.125 (talk) 22:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

To restrict this to some of the worst, see List of accidents and disasters by death toll § All-cause disasters.  --Lambiam 11:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I can only wonder why you mentioned Sandy Hook, to the exclusion of all the other mass shootings for which the USA has become infamous. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:17, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

I searched Google and the ones I found were... the Great Chicago fire 1871, Hurricane Katrina 2005, San Francisco earthquake 1906, the sack of Rome, the 2011 Joplin tornado, the 1980 eruption of Mount St Helens and the attack on Pearl Harbor. 81.152.221.235 (talk) 20:13, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Did you read the links we supplied above, at your request? They give WAY more than a Google search. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:30, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

See also war, plague, famine, genocide … —Tamfang (talk) 00:54, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Is standing chopsticks in a bowl of rice a common problem

The internet has plenty of advice on good etiquette when using chopsticks, including the stern advice to never stand chopsticks upright in a bowl of rice. Indeed, Wikipedia's own article on chopsticks contains this same advice. There is the explanation of why this is considered bad etiquette, but I'm curious about how big a problem this is perceived to be. Despite trips to Japan and perhaps hundreds of visits to various Japanese restaurants, I have only seen it happen twice, and that was in the movie The Wolverine when Logan stands his chopsticks up on 2 occasions, only to have Mariko remove them and lay them beside the rice bowl. I think part of the issue in my mind is that it would never occur to me to stand my chopsticks up in my rice bowl. So, is there evidence that this breach of etiquette so prevalent that it bears mentioning in all etiquette guides?

I've already tried searching for this nugget of information, but the huge quantity of sites aimed at visitors to Japan (and other Asian countries) and just saying don't do it, is overwhelming. 185.41.233.36 (talk) 22:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

If it wasn't offensive I'd park chopsticks in rice at all kinds of angles including upright cause it looks a bit artistic to me. Especially if I was still an age when playing with food like this was less immature. Assuming I ever get served rice with chopsticks. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 00:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't know about Japanese culture, but from a Chinese perspective, it's because a bowl of rice with chopsticks sticking out of it looks like a censer that you would put incense sticks into, which is a common element of ancestral shrines. It's not only disrespectful, but the image also has connotations associated with death too. This is the kind of thing every Chinese kid has done and gotten scolded for. bibliomaniac15 00:59, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Just to further clarify, I don't think this simply arises from playing with your food or trying to be artistic. It may arise simply from the fact you're using chopsticks in the bowl of rice, so the natural inkling can be to leave them there. It gets even more likely if you follow stronger forms of this taboo e.g. not leaving chopsticks sticking in bowl of noodles which is common in at least some parts of Malaysia see e.g. [1] (yeah there's a lot of sexism and other weirdness in that thread but it gets the point across) or even other foods and containers. Nil Einne (talk) 01:38, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Next time you go to a Japanese restaurant, maybe you could ask them. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:01, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

There is no rhyme or reason for many of the trivia of etiquette, but one reason in this could be the risk of knocking the sticks and sending rice flying across the table. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:55, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

There is a reason, which is given in the section Chopsticks § Chopstick customs, manners and etiquette and repeated in the subsection Japan. There are more etiquette rules, given in Customs and etiquette in Japanese dining § Chopsticks and bowls. Performing hiroi-bashi at the dinner table is a much more shocking transgression than putting them upright into the rice, but still the evocation of a funeral ritual will make any Japanese people present uncomfortable, and I think etiquette rule number 1 is to avoid making people uncomfortable without a pretty damn good reason.  --Lambiam 11:20, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I've stopped people from doing this so many times I've lost count. Are you maybe taking "upright" too literally? It's not like the only impolite way to leave them in a bowl is literally perpendicular with the table. -- asilvering (talk) 02:06, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. It was recently seeing The Wolverine again that reminded me, so I asked the question because I've never seen anyone do this (except for the aforementioned movie scene), and it would never have occurred to me to do it either, even without all the etiquette guides. I might try to ask the next time I dine at my local Japanese restaurant. 185.41.233.36 (talk) 20:08, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

As for why some people do this, I think it probably feels natural to people who are used to leaving their forks on their plate while they're eating off it - if you balance the chopsticks on the edge of the plate/bowl you're using, they might roll off, so you can't just leave them there like you could leave a fork. Of course, there's usually a chopstick rest for this purpose, but sometimes there isn't (cheap/quick restaurant, takeout), or you might not notice that there's a chopstick rest available because you're not used to using them. So you jam the chopsticks into the rice to keep them from rolling away. People talk about the "it's like at a temple/funeral" as the reason why this is rude, but I think most people familiar with basic British/American/etc table manners would think jamming your fork/spoon into a dish of food so it stood up at an angle is at best "not the polite way to do it", so...

As far as "does it happen often enough to merit mention in etiquette guides," yeah, from my own experience I would say so, but also, don't assume that "in the guide" necessarily correlates with "actually happens often"! There are so many weird "foreigners think/do this" stereotypes that are basically cultural memes at this point. One unrelated one I recall is that foreigners don't know how to ride bicycles. I have no idea where this one comes from, and it's obviously and easily disproven by asking literally any adult (I don't think I've ever in my life spoken to someone who has replied to my "I can't ride a bike, actually" with "omg, me neither!!"). Some of these things just take on a weird life of their own. Even though I have seen people do the chopstick thing, that doesn't mean it isn't one of these stereotypes. -- asilvering (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Actually, asilvering, I can't ride a bike either: it just wasn't something I had the need, motive or opportunity to learn as a child for circumstantial reasons. We have this particular skill lack in common with Isaac Asimov, among others, which I find oddly comforting. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.88.97 (talk) 17:52, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Bad-at-bikes buddies! -- asilvering (talk) 18:00, 11 May 2022 (UTC)