Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 19

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August 19

Names Meaning "Corrupted Innocence"

I'm looking for a name, preexistant or not, that means "Corrupted Innocence," for a character in one of my stories. I don't mind if the name hasn't previously existed, but I'd like to know any examples, of either kind. Thanks --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 01:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Have you considered naming them for an existing character who embodies this idea? Depending on where you're going with the concept, a play on Dorian Gray or some such might work for you. I'm having trouble thinking of a name that calls this meaning to mind first though, as most bring other aspects of their story. For example, Adam and Eve bring genesis and beginning to mind before corruption of innocents (or even Seduction of the Innocent!), so this could be tricky. Of course, you could go with wordplay like calling them "Innocent" (not terribly subtle, I know) and having them be called by a nickname/sloppy version which knocks off the in. But you'd probably want better wordplay than that. 217.42.157.143 (talk) 03:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, Vitiated would mean "made faulty, spoilt, injured, corrupted" without being a commonly-enough known English word for this to be obvious. 217.42.157.143 (talk) 03:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

What about Greek or Latin roots? Do any good-sounding names come from combining foreign language roots for similar words? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 03:17, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

We could translate it into Latin, but it wouldn't be a name in Latin (just a phrase). AnonMoos (talk) 05:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Do you need a single name? A character named "Skadad Oskuld" sounds interesting and exotic, and is Swedish for "corrupted innocence", at least according to Google Translate. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 05:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Whoa, no. Don't do that. Honestly, literal translations like this only sound cool if you don't speak the language; if you do, they tend to sound and look completely idiotic. (A fairly classic example of this is teräs käsi, a martial art in the Star Wars universe, which is just Finnish for "steel hand". It may look cool to you, but trust me, it looks pretty comical to me. At best.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 07:27, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I dunno. Lots of my friends have names like Feinstein, Goldfarb, Charpentier; and then there are people like Wolf Blitzer. (And one of my favorite books features a character named Hiro Protagonist.) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 18:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not saying you can't have names that mean something. I'm saying you shouldn't pick something out of a dictionary and think it's cool, because you could very easily be the literary equivalent of a guy who gets a Chinese word on his ass that reads "idiot" or, at best, "draggon" or something. (As for Hiro Protagonist, that's a kind of a joke, which is a little different thing.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

This may be too out there for you, but naming the character William Blake (or Blake William, if you wanted a bit more subtlety, I suppose) would be, for me at least, an interesting allusion to Songs of Innocence and of Experience. Alternatively, maybe play on something that symbolizes innocence? Language of flowers seems to identify the lilac with innocence--maybe a name that associates lilac with something symbolic of corruption? User:Jwrosenzweig editing as 71.231.197.110 (talk) 07:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

"Perdita" is a woman's name, though uncommon. It comes from the Latin root meaning "ruined, morally lost, abandoned, profligate, miserable". When I was raising my kid I was struck by the fact that the female lead in "101 Dalmations" has this name. --Sean 14:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I've always liked the name Dolores Claiborne (though I've never read the novel or seen the movie). Dolores means "sorrows", and "Claiborne" suggests (to me anyway) the first people made from clay before the Biblical fall from grace. -- BenRG (talk) 15:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

How about Braen Glanmor? Braen comes from corrupt and Glanmor comes from clean. Omahapubliclibrary (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:44, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I've always thought that the names Vanessa, Demelza, Desdemona and her cousin Mona suggest the owners have gone down the wrong track in life (wherever that is), and they know it, and they enjoy it. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:04, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hecate once might have been nice as a little kid. Julia Rossi (talk) 13:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Branwenn is a girl's name from welsh and means dark and pure. Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 17:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

military use of "actual"

Does anyone know what is meant by the use of "actual" in military call signs, as seen in Battlestar Galactica as well as Generation Kill? "Mad Dog three calling Mad Dog Actual", etc. I mean, it obviously is some sort of reference to command, but does anybody have any more info? TIA. Gzuckier (talk) 01:47, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

• It means you're talking to Mad Dog himself rather than Mad Dog's operator. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 03:26, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

ah, hadn't thought of that. thanks. Gzuckier (talk) 06:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Hiccough

Why is the word "hiccup" sometimes spelled in that manner but still pronounced as "hiccup"? (I can see how "hic-cough" could make sense, since it's like a cough with a "hic" sound, but I'm wondering why that spelling got attached to such a different pronunciation.) 68.123.238.140 (talk) 15:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure but it is worth noting the highly variable pronounciation of ough. Rmhermen (talk) 16:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

For once this is not ough's fault: as that article indicates, the spelling hiccough comes from a folk etymology relating hiccup to cough. Algebraist 16:31, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

OED etymology note " Hiccough was a later spelling, app. under the erroneous impression that the second syllable was cough, which has not affected the received pronunciation, and ought to be abandoned as a mere error." Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 17:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Vulger Latin

Resolved

While reading a book on western civ it said the Romans spoke not Latin but Vulger Latin which is where the Romance language is derived.Not being able to speak French,Spanish,or Italian how can i get an example of comparison using English as the base? Also what other languages derive from Romance? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.214.38.189 (talk) 17:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Vulgar Latin was the common informal spoken vernacular alongside Classical Latin as the formal written language. Go to Romance language for a list of the Romance languages. AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

English borrowed a lot of words from Classical Latin, but even more words from Vulgar Latin THROUGH French. Does anyone has an idea of a non-cognate English pair, one borrowed from classical Latin, one from Vulgar Latin through French or another romance language? I am thinking of words derived from something like the equus - cabalum pair but we need words that are common in English, as per the O.P. request. --Lgriot (talk) 00:30, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, equine and chivalry are fairly common English words. English cat (along with French chat, Spanish gato, etc.) derives from Vulgar (or at least Late) Latin cattus, whereas the Classical Latin was felis (the source of English feline). Is that the sort of thing the OP was asking for? I was having a hard time figuring out what s/he wanted. Deor (talk) 01:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Both questions were answered between you guys and looking up Romance languages in wikipedia. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.203.63.21 (talk) 01:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Cat and feline are cool examples, better because the meaning between the 2 is so close, and the modern form is close to the original latin word (unlike chivalry). I'll try to remember it. --Lgriot (talk) 05:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Try cavalier from cabalum if you need a closer match. Bazza (talk) 14:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Just a minor bit of pedantry: It's caballus, not cabalum. Deor (talk) 00:45, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Deor, my Latin is actually non-existant, so I just remember these words from my readings on etymlogy (and with poor memory, as you can see). I really shouldn't try to help on those questions :-). --Lgriot (talk) 06:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)