Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 December 18

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December 18

German sentence for translation

What would be the precise translation into English of the following sentence: "Im April 1928 wurde er aus der Partei ausgeschlossen, weil er sich nicht der in Opposition gegen Piłsudski stehenden PPS-Politik anschließen wollte." ? --Soman (talk) 08:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

"In April 1928 he was expelled from the party because he was unwilling to sign on to the PPS's policy in opposition to Piłsudski." —Angr 08:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

What isn't 100% clear to me, is who opposed Piłsudski? PPS or the expelled person? --Soman (talk) 20:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The PPS. The expelled person didn't want to sign on to the "in Opposition gegen Piłsudski stehenden PPS-Politik", i.e. "the PPS policy standing in opposition to Piłsudski". —Angr 20:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! --Soman (talk) 22:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Plural of "index"

What is the plural of the word "index" in the phrase "stock market index". Some sources use "indices" while others use "indexes". --Kalbasa (talk) 20:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd say you've just answered your own question. —Angr 20:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Right, but we need to pick either "indexes" or "indices" for use on Wikipedia. That's why I want to find out here what the more correct usage is. --Kalbasa (talk) 20:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

We do? We accommodate multiple national varieties of English. I don't see why we can't accommodate multiple (allowable) plurals for a word. It's best to be consistent within one article, of course. In any case, for discussing what's best for Wikipedia, WP:MOS, its related articles, and their talk pages would be the place, not the Reference Desk. -- Coneslayer (talk) 20:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

At books.google.com (which searches only published books and so gives a better indication of formal, edited usage than regular Google does), "stock market indices" gets slightly more hits than "stock market indexes", but only slightly more. I'd say both are equally correct, and you can take your pick. Flip a coin, if need be! —Angr 20:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

But, as Coneslayer says, within any one article we should use one spelling consistently. The best place to discuss that would be on the relevant article's talk page. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Jack is right, but be warned: talk-page debates like indexes/indices (or whether you have to capitalize the first D in MacDonald) make the Long Parliament look like a tweet -- and one that doesn't hit the 140-character limit. --- OtherDave (talk) 22:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

By the way, what shall we call the fuel used in automobile engines with spark plugs? -- Coneslayer (talk) 22:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about automobiles but cars use petrol. DuncanHill (talk) 22:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Jack, just to make things clear for others: The difference between indices and indexes is not a difference in spelling; they are morphological variants. —Daniel Šebesta {chat | contribs} 02:14, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure that's right, Daniel. You'd know better than I. But for mere mortals, some would naturally use "indices" in most if not all contexts, whereas others would prefer "indexes" in the same contexts. In the case of a particular article, we can't have both "indexes" and "indices" appearing (unless it were an article discussing the difference between the 2 words). So, that's why I say it would be a matter of consensus, which is debated on the relevant article's talk page, and it could well be a different consensus depending on which article was under consideration. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

You're absolutely right about the consensus, Jack. I didn't mean to question that. All I wanted to was to clarify the linguistic terminology. —Daniel Šebesta {chat | contribs} 09:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Depends on context. For the index of a book it could be either, but I think for mathematical things bearing the name "index", the plural is "indices". Michael Hardy (talk) 02:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I should clarify my meaning further. Stock market indices are in some senses "mathematical", but not central to mathematics. When the "j" in such an expression as

$\sum _{j=1}^{\infty }{\frac {1}{j^{2}}}$

is called the "index of summation", then the plural is "indices"; I've never encountered anyone writing or saying "indexes" for that concept. Michael Hardy (talk) 02:47, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, M-W Collegiate says "pl usu indices" for that mathematical sense.

Yet what are all such gaieties to me
Whose thoughts are full of indices and surds?
x² + 7x + 63
= ¹¹/₃

Lewis Carroll

Deor (talk) 03:20, 19 December 2008 (UTC)