Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 October 29

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October 29

Opposite sex insult

What's the name given to the act of deliberately and offensively calling someone the opposite sex of what they are? 58.170.198.49 (talk) 10:38, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there is one, but if you want to start one off, we could use 'misgenderisation', or 'misengender' as the verb. However, I think these words would mean more that it was not deliberate. Maybe, 'disengender' might be better, but that sounds to me like physically neutering someone. Anyone else?--ChokinBako (talk) 12:09, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Apart from "insult", for example calling a man a "girl" is a verbally "castrating" or disempowering gesture. Calling a girl a "bloke" (here in Australia) is saying she is not feminine. Gender-abuse, perhaps? It might fall under the label Mysogyny for knocking/dissing[1] women and Misandry for insulting men this way. Julia Rossi (talk) 13:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

(Funny, I would say that calling a boy/man a girl/woman was misogyny; insulting(?) the individual man by/but disparaging the gender.) Saintrain (talk) 17:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

If it is calling a man a girls name, wikt:emasculation is as good a word as any. Not sure what the converse for females would be... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 17:14, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

"Immasculation"? —Angr 21:47, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

See the article "Gender transposition". -- Wavelength (talk) 17:38, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Bill Lawry could comment here. Some years back, as a cricket commentator, he got a LOT of community criticism for describing a (male) fielder as "running like a girl". (I'm very surprised it's not mentioned in our article, so I shall be taking steps to rectify that.) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Heh. I heard that John Goodman had to learn to throw left-handed as The Babe, and remarked, "I'll never say 'throw like a girl' again." —Tamfang (talk) 06:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Form of the name "Harbour Town": why the letter "u"?

1. If Harbour Town is an American place, why does it have the "u" in its name?

2. Is this the correct reference desk for this question? 58.170.198.49 (talk) 10:41, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I can answer the second question. 'Yes', it is perfectly correct. As to why it uses British spelling, I can only assume that it is a place named after a place that existed in Colonial times.--ChokinBako (talk) 10:52, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Alternatively, they may have spelled it that way because they thought it looked "ye olde sophisticated". —Angr 10:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Aye, þæt wolde rihte beon!--ChokinBako (talk) 11:05, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

It is not alone in the US - cf. Aquia Harbour, Virginia, Bal Harbour, Florida, Harbour Heights, Florida, Indian Harbour Beach, Florida. Strawless (talk) 15:08, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

And conversely, Victor Harbor, South Australia, which apparently was simply a mistake. 219.90.207.164 (talk) 15:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought I heard there was a time in the late 19th century or so when Australian English was considering following the Americans in using u-less spellings in such words, thus also the spelling of the Australian Labor Party. —Angr 16:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The moving from "ou" to "o" spellings in American English largely date back to Noah Webster's first dictionary published in 1825; it quickly became the standard American spelling. The place name is likely older than that date and has never been changed. --Xuxl (talk) 18:21, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No, it is a modern place. It is fairly common for names to ape British or old-fashioned spellings in an attempt to seem prestigious. Hence the many theatres, harbours, ye olde shops, etc. Rmhermen (talk) 18:28, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

• In fact, if it had been an old place name, it would have been changed. About 120 years ago there was an attempt in the US to standardize all spellings used in place names throughout the country. Apostrophes were dropped, Pittsburgh became Pittsburg, and so on. Pittsburghers were annoyed enough that that change was reversed (see Name of Pittsburgh), but the others have generally stood.. --Anonymous, 04:41 UTC, October 30, 2008.

Haha, that is because deep-down you love us, even if you do blast away indiscriminately at our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq ("Fire in the hole!!!!!")--ChokinBako (talk) 19:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe that U.S. wedding invitations will often request that invitees "favour" the hosts with the "honour" of their presence. jnestorius^(talk) 20:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

More often it's merely "request the honour of your presence". I always found that pretentious, and argued strenuously against it when my sister got married, to no avail. But when I got married, I was careful to "request the honor" of the guests' presence – even though I got married in a Church of England church! —Angr 21:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

So this dropping of the 'u', is that where 'yo' came from, as in "I am yo bro, yo mofo"?--ChokinBako (talk) 21:04, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The Australian Labor Party's name-change was part of anti-British politicking, fair dinkum, but it's pervasive in most official Englishes, not just Commonwealth (other countries than English-speaking ones have official versions of English; believe me I know, I had to familiarize myself with them for a World Bank Conference wordprocessing pool back in the '90s; Japan spells things this way, China that, Taiwan different from HongKong, Singapore different from Malaysia. But the -our is most common and remains a point of pride in Canada, or obligation.....same for centre/center although the former is gaining ground in Canada; there's a certain amount of perverse pride in the Canadian-owned Kodak Theatre in LA, though, as it uses the Canaidan spelling on American turf.....;-D.Skookum1 (talk) 21:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

That change occurred in 1912; it's covered at Australian Labor Party#Etymology. It seems to have been more about pro-American sentiment than anti-British as such, as the party's direction was influenced by the U.S. labor movement. The main proponent of the change was King O'Malley, who was born close to the U.S.-Canada border (officially in Canada as a British subject, but there are many who believe he was born in the USA, as a U.S. citizen). -- JackofOz (talk) 22:05, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Valley Falls, Kansas is nowhere close to the US-Canada border. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 19:06, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Very true, but he claimed to have been born in Quebec, which is. That version was accepted as gospel, which is why he was officially a British subject when he came to Australia and did not require naturalisation before entering parliament. Only later were doubts raised as to his true birthplace. Kansas seems more likely, but we'll never know for sure now. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:06, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the census record shown at Talk:King_O'Malley#Dubious_statements indicates that he was born in Ireland.  :) Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 23:23, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Kansas is pretty close to the US-Canada border as seen from Australia, one might think. —Tamfang (talk) 00:35, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, not really. That would be like saying Brisbane is close to Tasmania as seen from the USA. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

So what's the problem? —Tamfang (talk) 07:48, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Re "Kodak Theatre": "Theatre" has now become the more common spelling for live theater in the U.S., mostly due to the pretentiousness of theater-goers. Our National Theatre (est. 1835) uses this spelling, though there's nothing official about its "national" status. Even low-brow American cinemas (e.g., AMC Theatres) use the Brit. spelling. —D. Monack ^talk 22:31, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Expression [meaning of "dressed up to the sixes and nines"]

Dressed up to the sixes and nines.

What does it mean?

"Dressed to the nines" means being very well dressed. I've never heard "sixes" being used in that phrase (maybe it means you're 2/3 as fancily attired). A bit more info is available at To the Nines (novel)#Explanation of the Novel's Title. Clarityfiend (talk) 16:16, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

There's also At sixes and sevens which is something else completely.GBViews (talk) 18:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Although only tangentially related to the question, Chinese has a number of idioms related to numbers, including, sixes and sevens. Steewi (talk) 01:29, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Oops, the one I was thinking was actually 7 and 8: luanqibazao 乱七八糟 "all messed up". Steewi (talk) 01:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget two and six. Bazza (talk) 15:19, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Not to be confused with two and six... —Angr 10:28, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Latin question

Am I right in thinking the latin word "Britannicum" makes no sense alone? But rather has to be placed after other words, ie Historia Britannicum? Incidentally, what is the "Matter of Britain" in latin? Thanks...--87.112.30.84 (talk) 18:28, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No. Britannicum is (one form of) an adjective which means "British"; it should agree in number, case, and gender with the noun it modifies, so Historia Britannicum is wrong (historia is feminine; Britannicum neuter).

• The idea of the Matter of Britain is unlikely to have been treated even in Mediaeval Latin; but Materies (or Res) Britannica springs to mind. There are several other possibilities. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 19:00, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Res Britannica is 'The matter of Britain'. Good old Julius supplied us with that 2,000 years ago.--ChokinBako (talk) 19:10, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Citation, please; it's not in De bello Gallico V, where I would expect it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

The "matter of Britain" that (I presume) the OP and Pmanderson are referring to is one of the three "matters" into which the topics of medieval romances were divided. I can't recall having seen any discussion of these in medieval Latin works, so there may indeed be no authoritative Latin version of the expression. Deor (talk) 20:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, was it in De Bello Gallico? Oh well, funny that Julius should write a whole book about the Brits and the troubles here. Nothing has changed!--ChokinBako (talk) 20:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Polydore Vergil's Anglica Historia has res Britannica a few times, as in "Fuit res Britannica superior eo praelio, viceruntque egregie qui vinci consueverant." Strawless (talk) 01:26, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I think I remember reading about Res Brittanorum "The Matter of the Britons", but I might be confusing it with the title Rex Brittanorum. Steewi (talk) 01:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

So the word "Britanicum" on its own is nonsense?

Well, the word "Britanicum" on its own is a misspelling of "Britannicum", which is an adjective in the masculine accusative or neuter nominative/accusative. It means "British". On its own, it isn't nonsense any more than the English word "British" is. I suppose it could be a substantivized adjective meaning "a British thing". —Angr 12:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Russian Song Lyrics

Can anyone help me on this? Forget the guitar bits, I just need the lyrics translating.

ЛЮБЕ - Конь

   Am             C       Am
1) Выйду ночью в поле с конем

Am             G       C
Hочкой темной тихо пойдем

Dm       G  C          Am
Мы пойдем с конем по полю вдвоем

Dm             E      Am     2 раза
Мы пойдем с конем по полю вдвоем

2) Hочью в поле звезд благодать
В поле никого не видать
Только мы с конем по полю идем
Только мы с конем по полю идем

3) Сяду я верхом на коня      
Ты неси по полю меня         
По бескраинему полю моему
По бескраинему полю моему

4) Дай-ка я разок посмотрю
Как рождает поле зарю
Ай брусничный цвет, алый да рассвет
Али есть то место али его нет

5) Полюшко мое родняки
Бабы, ребетня, мужики
Золотая рож да кудрявай лен
Я влюблен в тебя Россия влюблен

6) Будет добрым год хлебород
Всякое дурное уйдет
Пой злотая рож пой кудрявый лен
Пой о том как я в Россию влюблен

Something about horses, apparently.--ChokinBako (talk) 21:08, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

From my Google search for "Выйду ночью в поле с конем english translation", the first result is

Любэ (Lyube): Конь (Kon') Lyrics with English translation. -- Wavelength (talk) 05:37, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Cheers! Perfick!--ChokinBako (talk) 08:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

We even have an article on the band Lubeh. —Angr 12:26, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Looks a bit like My Lovely Horse to me... ;) FiggyBee (talk) 06:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think it is this. ЛЮБЕ - the Horse

  Am C Am

1) I Shall leave at night in a floor with a horse

Am G C Hочкой dark we shall silently go

Dm G C Am We shall go with a horse on a field together

Dm E Am 2 times We shall go with a horse on a field together

2) Hочью in a floor of stars good fortune In a floor nobody видать Only we with a horse on a field go Only we with a horse on a field go

3) I Shall sit down on a horse You bear on a field me On бескраинему to my field On бескраинему to my field

4) Give-ка I разок I shall look As the field gives rise to a dawn Ah cowberry color, scarlet yes a dawn Али there is that place али it is not present

5) Полюшко mine родняки Women, ребетня, muzhiks Gold physiognomies yes кудрявай flax I am enamoured in you Russia enamoured

6) Will be kind year хлебород Everyone bad will leave Sing злотая physiognomies sing curly flax Sing about that as I to Russia am enamoured. Thanks