Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 September 1

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September 1

Meaning of Korean first name Isang

On the German Wikipedia's reference desk someone asked abotu the meaning of the Korean first name Isang (Hanja 伊桑) as in Isang Yun. The meaning of the Hanja does not give me a great clue ("He mulberry"), I was also wondering whether it might be the Korean transcription of the name Ethan, since the biblical Ethan might have been a cymbalist and since I have seen this (symbolic) transcription used for mandarin. That's just speculation though, does anybody know more? Thanks, -- Arcimboldo (talk) 01:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Korean first names don't necessarily have meanings; sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. Also, there's a practice where all the clan's boys, of the same generation, will share a letter in their first names. Sometimes it can be the first letter, sometimes it can be the second. I'm not sure about Isang Yun, but either "i" or "sang" could be one of those shared letters.

Hypothetical scenarios:

• Isang has brothers and/or cousins called Hosang, Deoksang, Yunsang, Pilsang, etc. (Sang doesn't necessarily mean anything.)
• Isang has brothers and/or cousins called Ijin, Idan, Ihyeok, etc. (I doesn't necessarily mean anything.
• Isang's name is unrelated to his cousins'. (The "shared letter" practice is getting rarer than before.)

More info is at Korean name#Given names and generation name. 211.192.198.220 (talk) 04:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the helpful explanations and links. In case anyone has a hint that Isang might actually have a meaning then of course it will be welcome still. -- Arcimboldo (talk) 14:13, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I highly doubt a connection with Ethan. I can't check at the moment, but I'm quite sure the traditional Korean version of Ethan would be Edan. In general, it's futile to look for meanings in Korean given names. The meanings of the hanja are quite secondary to considerations like euphony and 'shared letters'. --Iceager (talk) 09:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Graudejus (surname)

What is the origin and pronunciation of this surname? 149.169.211.122 (talk) 02:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Don't know about the pronunciation, but it is apparently German (see this map, so I would guess "grau-day-us". Adam Bishop (talk) 05:17, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I wonder though, whether it's originally German. According to that map there are, at most, 70 registered phone book entries for Graudejus. That's less than Bishop, quite a bit less than Milosevic, and far far less than Yilmaz. When googling surnames, I've often seen that German site pop up. I was wondering whether there is a connection to the name Graudenz, like a German latinized form for someone from Graudenz/Grudziądz. There are all sorts of weird names like that, but I couldn't find anything. Googling "graudeius" (with an "i" instead of "j") gave me exactly one hit, which is rare enough to celebrate. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:44, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The -ejus is a dead giveaway for a Baltic name - Latvian, Lithuanian or Prussian. Which one of them I'm not sure, but they would all likely pronounce it similarly - grau-DAY-ooss ("grau" rhyming with 'how', "day" pronounced like "day", ooss rhyming with puss). Steewi (talk) 09:34, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking Lithuanian as well. 92.81.6.24 (talk) 10:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

That sounds very plausible. Probably not connected, but "grauzējus" is the accusative plural of the Latvian word grauzējs ("rodent", nominative plural grauzēji at Latvian Wikipedia). ---Sluzzelin talk 14:42, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I thought it looked Lithuanian too, but Google only came up with German results. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps Prussian, then. (Or Sorbian?) Steewi (talk) 10:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorbian is Slavic, not Baltic. Sorbian last names (to the extent Sorbians don't just have German last names) look like Polish or Czech last names. —Angr (talk) 19:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Only too happy

We'd be only too happy to help you in any way we can.

This and similar expressions (only too pleased; only too willing) are meant to demonstrate a very positive attitude or a strong willingness to do something. That's fine. But it's a very odd collection of words if you think about it. Someone who’d never heard this expression before would probably do a double take and wonder what the hell was being said. It's very well known in Australia, but it's only ever used colloquially.

My brain is telling me it's an idiom of Irish origin: is that correct? Does it appear in all the major varieties of English? Are there parallel constructions in other languages? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 12:13, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

It's widely used in England, especially the RP version; I've never thought of it as being Irish, but you never know. In my days in the London insurance market, you would often see it in business letters, so maybe more of an idiom than a colloquialism (?). Alansplodge (talk) 12:21, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

It's used in the US as well, and was first recorded in 1899, according to this source.

Your hypothesis sounds reasonable. "only too", meaning "very", may be derived from Irish, like the expression "it was only dreadful", and likewise. See here.

Eliko (talk) 13:05, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

OED, s.v. "Too" 5 c: But too ..., only too": Here too is app. = 'more than is desirable' ... or 'more than is or might be expected' while but or only = 'nothing but', 'nothing else than', app. emphasizes the exclusion of any different quality or state of things such as might be desired or expected". First citation of "only too" from Jane Austen's letters, 1817.

It distinguishes 5 d. "In recent use, only too is often a mere intensive, = 'extremely', and cites that from 1889. --ColinFine (talk) 18:40, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Concrete Roofing

Is there a word like "Lenter" or "Lantre" or something close in western languages that means a roof built with cement and bricks ?  Jon Ascton  (talk) 18:19, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The Latin for brick is later. That is most likely the root of whatever you're after. (Another, far less probable possibility is the Finnish laatta, "tile".) However, the only modern descendant of later seems to be the Spanish ladrillo, which doesn't sound much like "lenter" or "lantre". LANTZY^TALK 05:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually in our language we have a word "lanter" that is used for a concrete roof. Since the "t" in it is pronounced hard and plosive it seems to be a bastardized form of some English term, but what ? please help  Jon Ascton  (talk) 05:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

When you say "our language", you mean English, right? LANTZY^TALK 02:13, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

No, I am afraid. I don't mean English. I mean punjabi !

Nothing in the OED, I'm afraid. --ColinFine (talk) 18:44, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems a usage peculiar to the Indian subcontinent. The commonest spellings are "lentar" and "lenter". Here are some pages containing the word: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. It is frequently placed inside quotes, as if it is not considered a naturalized English word, and those who use the term often feel the need to explain what it means. At first I thought it was chiefly Islamic, since it is often used in connection with mosque architecture, but here the term is applied to the roofing of a Hindu temple. Of course, that doesn't rule out an Islamic origin. It's frequently used in property listings, so it must be widely understood within the subcontinent. Here's something like a definition, taken from this website: "For example to build a concrete roof (known as ‘lenter’), it involves shuttering work – to make a temporary “roofing” on top of which the concrete is poured. The traditional way of doing it, I have been seeing here and before also in my native, involves using bricks, wood timber, wood sheet, iron pipe, cement, sand, soil etc.. The cement and sand is used only to make the temporary “roofing”, which is destroyed after the concrete slab is built." So perhaps "lenter" refers to a traditional building process. In any case, I can't find a single instance of the term outside of India or Pakistan, so it is probably not from English, Latin, or another western language, except perhaps by way of Persian, Hindi, Punjabi, or what have you. I would refer the question to an expert on Hindustani etymology, preferably one with experience in masonry. LANTZY^TALK 03:18, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Incidentally, the next time the OP is curious about a word, he might consider specifying the hemisphere on which he heard it used. English is a big place. LANTZY^TALK 03:28, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

There is a very remote possibility that the Indian "lenter" is derived from the English "lean-to", via the dialectical Norfolk term "lento" or "lenter". Conceivably British colonists might have introduced the term, which was current in the 18th century and was spread to New England, among other places. LANTZY^TALK 04:18, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Most probably, "lenter" is derived from "lean-to" as it has the same meanings in Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi etc. Farooq. 12:20, 9 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding comment added by 176.18.69.103 (talk)

Latin

What's the Latin name for the Roman Republic? --75.33.216.97 (talk) 21:00, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

The infobox of our article Roman Republic claims its official name was simply Roma, and Senatus Populusque Romanus after about 100 B.C., though I really doubt the latter was ever in any meaningful sense the name of the Roman Republic. Latin Wikipedia calls it Res Publica Romana. —Angr (talk) 21:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they didn't really have a name for it, since a "republic" was not a special form of government that they recognized. "Res publica" basically means "the public thingy", since theoretically everyone was supposed to take part and it, whatever it was, was supposed to benefit all of society. Cicero wrote a book called De Re Publica, and while he was describing the constitution and government and it can be translated as "On the Republic", that's not really what he meant. The Greeks, as far as I am aware, were more advanced in abstract philosophical notions of this sort, and they did have names for their various forms of government, which the Romans sometimes borrowed. Aristotle's and Plato's works which are sometimes Latinized as "Republic" are actually "politeia", which specifically refers to the governance of a city. The Greeks also used "oligarchia" and "tyrannis". The Romans consciously modelled their republic on the classical Greek republics like Athens, but they didn't have their own fancy name for it. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Res publica in Latin literally means "the public matter/concern" or something close to what we mean by "politics" or "government". Marco polo (talk) 00:36, 2 September 2010 (UTC)