Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 May 26
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May 26
editfructus est fullonius
editwhat is the meaning of "fructus est fullonius" (Plautus Pseudolus 781). thanks,--84.108.213.48 (talk) 15:24, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- According to google translate, it literally means "fruit of the washer". Does that make any sense in the context of that item of literature? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:46, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- It was translated variously as "to receive a fustigation", as "to swallow ink", "to be stamped upon" or as "to be raped orally". --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 16:01, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- Fructus est is the third person active of the deponent fruor: "he has enjoyed". Google translate (which sounds odd to me) suggests "the fuller" which gives: "The fuller has enjoyed himself." μηδείς (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- The whole line is "Cras mihi potandus fructus est fullonius". Fructus is a noun, with the verb being potandus est: "Tomorrow I'll have to drink fructus fullonius", with the "fuller's product" being of somewhat unclear denotation, as the varying translations cited by Pp.paul.4 above indicate. (Lewis & Short even suggest [s.v. fullonius] that fucus rather than fructus may be meant.) Deor (talk) 17:04, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
- Didn't ancient fullers use urine as a whitening agent? To my eyes the whole phrase means something like "Tomorrow I've got third-hand piss to drink", while the fragment quoted by the OP doesn't mean anything at all. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
- The fragment quoted by the OP means "It is the fuller's fruit", the full sentence, however, is constructed in a different way and means "Tomorrow I'll have to drink the fuller's fruit". The meaning of this sentence has been obscured by time and by our incomplete knowledge of vulgar Latin idiomatic phrases. My guess is that prudish translators of the 19th century might have explained it to their school pupils as an euphemism for kicks and bruises, whereas it is presumably much more vulgar (you don't drink kicks), as the modern interpretation (linked above) might suggest. It would be interesting to know how the modern English translation of Plautus' Pseudolus by David Christenson (2008) (review) translates it. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
- Didn't ancient fullers use urine as a whitening agent? To my eyes the whole phrase means something like "Tomorrow I've got third-hand piss to drink", while the fragment quoted by the OP doesn't mean anything at all. AlexTiefling (talk) 10:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
- I answered this on the Humanities desk, where it was first posted before the OP was redirected here. To repeat, the Perseus site has a footnote explaining that "the fuller's fruit" is a euphemism for kicks and bruises, because fullers work by beating cloth. "Fruit" basically means "product" here. The full phrase is a slangy way of saying "I will have to take a beating". The entire sentence it comes from is basically saying, "If I can't make the payment I owe, I will have to take a beating". Looie496 (talk) 12:39, 27 May 2014 (UTC)