Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 July 9

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July 9

Is "šúš·u-" which is Central Sierra Miwok (CSM) spelled "ʃɯʃ'ɯː" in IPA correctly?

š is definitely ʃ and I believe the closed back u is ɯ but the first ɯ should have an accent on it should that mean it is spelled with an additional marker of some sort? is ' correct for marking the · which mean little pauses between syllables? Also DOES ANYONE WANNA HELP REVIVE Miwok with me? I have already contacted two tribes. This is for the entry at šúš·u- I would also like to create a phonology section in the article for CSM on wikipedia with words covering all letters and sounds and their IPA pronunciations. The · are supposed to follow long phonemes actually so I am not sure how IPA handles that.Baymiwuk (talk) 11:02, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

PS "[Editor’s note: Penutian linguists today transcribe “j” as “y,” and “y” as “ï.” (Silverstein IJAL 45:198 (1979)). “?” is a glottal stop (printed without a dot in the original text). It separates vowels that you don’t combine. “•” follows a long vowel. The English form for “č,” “ŋ,” “š” and “t.” are “ch,” “ng,” “sh,” and “t,” respectively. See the Preface for more information on the alphabet used here. —dea.]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baymiwuk (talk • contribs) 11:16, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

IPA ˈ precedes primary stress, ˌ precedes ˈsecondˌary stress. —Tamfang (talk) 01:48, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Is there a vocalizer for creating audio based on typing in IPA?

I would like to know if there is a voice synthesizer that creates speech based on IPA much like google has them for Spanish and Chinese and English does anyone know of a place that offers this purely for IPA?Baymiwuk (talk) 11:21, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 May 19#IPA to speech --185.176.76.222 (talk) 11:44, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

ThankiesBaymiwuk (talk) 06:58, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

English grammar: generic masculine

In the German feminist linguistics, there is an excessive interest in the so called generic masculine. I am not so much interested in the sociological discourse but in the very linguistics: does a generic masculine exist in the English language too? I noticed that there is no such article in the English Wikipedia, only Generic antecedent which seems to be related but not quite the same. --Stilfehler (talk) 14:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Have you read Singular they? Fifelfoo (talk) 14:26, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint, I hadn't. A German fellow wikipedian of mine has been stating that ″most Indo-European languages″ (!) have the generic masculine, but while in German the discussion is very much focusing on nouns (see Binnen-I), in English most of the discussion seems to center on the prepositions. I haven't quite sorted out for myself if this can possibly be the same thing. --Stilfehler (talk) 17:42, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Most nouns in English have no gender. See Gender in English. I think you're more likely interested in pronouns than in prepositions. - Nunh-huh 17:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I was going to say that but got edit-conflicted. Prepositions have no gender in English, nor in any language I'm aware of. Though I suppose you could make a case for French du, but that's not a pure preposition, but rather a preposition plus an article. --Trovatore (talk) 17:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Oopsie, sorry I miswrote and naturally meant pronouns. --Stilfehler (talk) 17:57, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

And Third-person_pronoun#Generic_he (when I was in school, this was taught as the formal English usage). —Stephen (talk) 18:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

As for nouns specifically, you could argue that English has a few gendered nouns, mostly animal names, and the generic versions of these actually split between using the masculine and feminine. We use the masculine generically for dog–bitch, fox–vixen, tiger–tigress, lion–lioness, but the feminine for goose–gander, duck–drake, and nonstandardly but commonly for cow–bull. --Trovatore (talk) 19:09, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Your examples of the "generic feminine" exist in German just like this, by the way (cat / Katze vs. tomcat / Kater also springs to mind). Of cause, this doesn’t quite fit into the narrative. Cheers ✦ _hugarheimur 20:29, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Additionally, hen (as in "hen house" and likewise), vs. rooster/cock. HOTmag (talk) 23:38, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

The generic word is chicken. I'm not aware of anyone using "hen" in a way that includes males. And I'm a city boy so I'm not sure, but I don't think you let the males stay in the henhouse. --Trovatore (talk) 23:51, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

But chicken/Huhn works just as well, doesn’t it. Rgds ✦ _hugarheimur 01:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

"Chicken" and "cock" apparently come from the same word.[1] "Hound" is a male dog, though not used so widely now.[2] "Vixen" and "fox" seem to be derived from the same word, which by the way also alludes to the recent V vs. F discussion.[3] "Gander" and "goose" likewise appear to derive from a common root.[4] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:23, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Do you have a reference for "hound" meaning a male dog? I've never heard it used that way, and the source you provided does not say that. All the sources I can find say that a hound is a dog used in hunting, with no mention of its sex. CodeTalker (talk) 17:49, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

It isn't so used in modern English, but that was one of the meanings in middle English. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/m/mec/med-idx?type=id&id=MED21338 --Khajidha (talk) 11:11, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps not in North America, but in England I often hear the word hen so used. "As in the domestic state the females greatly exceed in number the cocks kept, and their economic importance is more prominent, the word hens is also used in some connexions as = 'domestic fowls' without regard to sex" (OED, 2nd edition). --Antiquary (talk) 10:10, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Interesting; I wouldn't have guessed that. Is the word chicken reserved for the meat, then, rather than the animals? --Trovatore (talk) 18:14, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

According to the OED, the first meaning of "chicken" is the young OR the flesh of the "domestic fowl". As a food, we also have (somewhat old fashioned) "roasting hens" and "capons". - Donald Albury 18:25, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

I see. In the States, the default word for the adult bird is "chicken". The young are "chicks". The adult females are "hens" and the adult males are "roosters". --Trovatore (talk) 18:31, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

"Chicken" has been generalized from an earlier restricted meaning to cover all ages of domestic fowl. Similarly, "pig", originally meaning a young swine, has been generalized to cover all ages of swine. Naming of the domestic bovine has been resistant to that trend. "Cattle" is a narrowing of "chattel", which meant all tangible property. "Beef/beeves" is sometimes used. I think some people inappropriately use "steers" to refer to both sexes. But we do not see grown bulls and cows referred to as "calves". - Donald Albury 18:56, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Cornish game hens can be male. —Tamfang (talk) 01:52, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

And Gamecocks can be female. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:28, 16 July 2018 (UTC)