Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 March 18

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March 18

Going to Hell in a handbarrow?

What is a handbarrow? It and hand barrow redirect to wheelbarrow. Dictionary definitions say it's a rectangular tray with handles on both ends, no wheels mentioned. I picture a Cockney pushing a two-wheeled cart, not a one-wheeled wheelbarrow. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:17, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Apparently it can mean both. The OED has two definitions:

1. A flat, rectangular frame used to transport loads, consisting of transverse bars, with shafts at the front and rear, by which it is carried by two people. Now chiefly historical.

2. A similar flat barrow having a wheel or wheels. Later also: a cart or box wheeled by hand, a wheelbarrow.

CodeTalker (talk) 01:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

As with Molly Malone. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:30, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

The usual quote is "Going to hell in a handbasket". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:44, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I know that, but it wouldn't make much sense here, would it? Clarityfiend (talk) 05:33, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Why not? You haven't given us any context that would make handbarrow fit better than handbasket. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:47, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

No, that would be the old bait-and-switch. Clarityfiend (talk) 17:44, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

The usual quote is "Going to hell in a handcart" in this house. DuncanHill (talk) 01:54, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

See also here. --142.112.149.107 (talk) 05:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, we don't have handbaskets (?) in the UK as far as I know. Alansplodge (talk) 09:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I've not encountered one in over half a century. DuncanHill (talk) 12:38, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

They are very common in American stores, used by those who don't need a full-sized shopping cart. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

We have shopping baskets for those who don't need a shopping trolley. DuncanHill (talk) 14:57, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

So you do have handbaskets, you just don't call them that. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:04, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

UK Bank Holiday hell in a handbasket? But virtual shopping baskets available here. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:49, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

So, all the baskets in the UK are simply too big to be carried with one hand? --Khajidha (talk) 23:39, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, what do you know. This is mentioned in List of retronyms. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:36, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: Google images search returns e.g.

• a picnic handbarrow https://co.pinterest.com/pin/58124651417432138/
• a garden handbarrow http://www.oldgardentools.co.uk/catablog-items/hand-barrow-a
• a medical one http://www.3drivers.com/catalog/337/5946/

HTH :) CiaPan (talk) 09:01, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

That's the first time I've heard of a strecher being called a "medical handbarrow". Clarityfiend (talk) 23:53, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WHAAOE - To hell in a handbasket says:

"Even earlier iterations of this phrase are “go to hell in a wheelbarrow” and “go to hell in a handcart.” Evidently, the idea of being carted to hell in a wheelbarrow can be seen on such religious iconography as the stained glass windows of Fairford Church in Gloucestershire and Hieronymus Bosch's painting The Haywain, circa 1515, and was used in sermons dating back to 1841".

The image at St Mary's Church, Fairford can be seen here: it's definitely a wooden wheelbarrow.

Alansplodge (talk) 09:18, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

At least in Wales we have the good manners to queue up properly. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:39, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks all. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:53, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Just for the hell of it, I've created Handbarrow. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:54, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I am the snowman, I am the walrus

I'm intrigued by the motto at the bottom of this image: Ik ben de sneeuwman, goob, goob j'goob. Does that "goob, goob j'goob" actually mean something in 16th-century Dutch (or 21st-century Dutch for that matter)? It seems suspiciously reminiscent of "I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob". —Mahāgaja · talk 10:18, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Along with Mr. A. Stardust of Mussell Hill, London, a lot of us non-Dutch people had always assumed it was coo coo ca choo. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:27, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I always heard it as "goo goo g'joob" as does this lyrics site. == Q Chris (talk) 10:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Likewise. And "coo coo ca choo" appears in "Mrs. Robinson". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:48, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Then you may need to correct that "Piggy in the Middle" article!! Martinevans123 (talk) 10:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

At any rate, I've removed the image from the article Snowman because there's evidence (which I mentioned at Talk:Snowman#1511 woodcut apparently fake) that it's a fake (a joke). —Mahāgaja · talk 11:02, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Ah, what a shame. We all wanted to know the real identity of the snowman (... and the fifth Beatle, of course). Martinevans123 (talk) 11:11, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

The year 1511 presumably refers to the Miracle of 1511. The image itself looks genuinely old; the caption appears forged (the baseline is too straight and the spacing too regular). A dead giveaway is that in a 16th-century text a word-initial ⟨s⟩ would have been spelled with a long s: "ſneeuman".  --Lambiam 14:33, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, the spelling seems too modern, it would probably have used 'Ick' instead of 'Ik' as well back then. Goob, goob j'goob definitely doesn't mean anything in Dutch today, and I highly doubt it did in the 16th century; 'goob' also looks quite un-Dutchlike, since we Dutch never use a 'b' at the end of a word. In the few Dutch words spelled this way it is always pronounced 'p' instead, and even there I don't know of any examples that are preceded by a long vowel like in 'goob'. - Lindert (talk) 23:01, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

There is a Dutch word that ends on ⟨b⟩, also in 16th-century Dutch, as seen in ick heb.^[1]. Where modern Dutch has rib, earlier Dutch had ribbe, though.  --Lambiam 12:10, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

True, but like I said that b is pronounced like a 'p', and is only written that way because it turns into a 'b' when lengthened/pluralized; also this doesn't follow a long vowel as in goob. When making up a word it would seem strange to spell it with a b instead of a p. In any case, I think we can agree that this doesn't look like a real 16th century caption. - Lindert (talk) 19:48, 19 March 2021 (UTC)