Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 October 12

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October 12

Have and have got

I have two questions about the verb "have".

1. Can this verb be contracted with "I've not got" rather than "I haven't got"?

2. Does "have got" give more emphasis of a possession? Dr Salvus 21:07, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

1. Yes, though it's less common. One might say something like: "I've got a red ball, but I've not got a blue one", where the first statement makes it more likely that the second will echo its form.

2. Generally yes. It might for example be used when answering a query: "Have you got a red pen?" "Yes, I have got a red pen."

Of course, English is highly versatile and variable, with many alternative ways of saying the same thing with subtly different implications, or with no significant differences, and with regional and idiosyncratic variations. It's easier to say whether a particular phrase in a particular circumstance falls within established usage or not, than to assess generalities. Sometimes a sentence can be constructed which is entirely gramatically correct, but which no native English speaker would be likely to say. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.128.221 (talk) 21:24, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Then there's Musta Notta Gotta Lotta... -- AnonMoos (talk) 22:54, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Or this comment attributed to Dizzy Dean, on a batter who swung at a bad pitch: "He shouldn't hadn't oughta swang!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:57, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Than what

• I stayed in longer this time because the water was warmer than what it was last time
• You're better at this than what I am.

They're just made-up examples to illustrate the "than what" construction. It's considered bad grammar by some (including me), the "what" being unnecessary. I've heard it countless times from Australians. I don't recall hearing it from other citizens of the anglosphere. Is it known elsewhere? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:51, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Widespread in colloquial British English. DuncanHill (talk) 22:26, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

The first one sounds familiar in America. The second one, not. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

They sound to me as though there's an unspoken What-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named:

• the water was warmer than... [the substance that] it was last time (because it certainly wasn't water!)
• better at this than... [whatever it is that] I am (if only you knew my true nature!)

The word "than" is followed by a pregnant pause, after which the rest is said in a low voice barely above a whisper, and then there's a thunderclap or a wolf howling. And you know you'll have to wait a long time before you learn the Dark Secret. (If you ever do.) If someone in the scene is new to the mysterious village, they mask ask "What was it last time?" or "What do you mean by 'what I am'?". But everyone will look away, and of course there will be no answer. --Amble (talk) 16:42, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

<sigh> Jack, Jack, Jack. You asked basically the same question about 7+1⁄2 years ago. Weren't our answers then good enough? Deor (talk) 18:02, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

He was hoping to draw on some new views - kind of a Seven Year Etch. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:15, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

In my defence, I am now 7+1⁄2 years further into my alzheimerescence. Thanks, Deor. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:17, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Look at the bright side: You're too old to die young. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:18, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

I (who have been known to exhibit a bit of alzheimerescence myself) was just teasing you, of course. Since that earlier discussion, I've acquired a set of the Dictionary of American Regional English, and this matter is treated in the "what adv." entry ("used as a redundant relative after comparative conjs than, as), with published examples ranging from 1883 (Joel Chandler Harris's Uncle Remus) to 1916 (William Dean Howells), as well as a number of examples collected orally from the southern United States in the 1980s. It's also in the second-edition OED s.v. what, definition C.6 ("used redundantly after than or as introducing a clause") and labeled dial. or vulgar, with the earliest citation from Sir Walter Scott in 1818. No doubt some of the vulgar convicts brought it to Australia. Deor (talk) 22:41, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Further evidence of my personal alzheimerescence: Feb. 2013 is, of course, more like 8+1⁄2 years ago than 7+1⁄2 years ago. Deor (talk) 02:01, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

That second example, "You're better at this than what I am", sounds like something Popeye would say. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:12, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

Only, Popeye would pronounce the final word as "yam". Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:05, 14 October 2021 (UTC)