Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 July 13

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July 13

Der Alte (Fuchs?)

The German crime television series de:Der Alte is named The Old Fox in English, fr:Le Renard (série télévisée) in French, fi:Vanha kettu in Finnish, and sv:Den gamle deckarräven in Swedish.

All four of the translated names I have mentioned mean "the fox" or "the old fox". The original German name does not. It simply means "the old one".

Why is this? Is "fox" somehow implied from "old"? How is it possible that four unrelated languages (Finnish is not even Indo-European) have managed to do this independently? Or is there something I am missing here? JIP | Talk 19:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the series, but foxes are, in English (and I believe in Persian), proverbially crafty characters. An old one would be even more so. Reynard of course crosses cultures. Is the "Old One" of the series a cunning, crafty, type? DuncanHill (talk) 20:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

This RefDesk thread concerning the differences between being a person described as "old" in German and English might be relevant too. Alansplodge (talk) 22:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Quoting our article The Old Fox: 'By understanding the psychological make-up of his suspect, the "Old Fox" craftily leads the criminal into his own trap, to the great surprise of his often perplexed staff.'  --Lambiam 09:48, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

It does indeed seem that "Der Alte" in the series is a cunning, crafty type. The main Old Fox is an older Chief Inspector, physically slow, but mentally sharp with a deep understanding of human nature. Apparently Der Alte carries certain connotations in German as a Chief or Boss, implying that With Age Comes Wisdom and so forth. The TV series is a long-running institution in Germany, and the basic concept is indeed promising. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 10:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

As a native German speaker - Austro-Bavarian - who has never seen an installment of this TV series: "Der Alte" is generally a term of respect and even endearment to describe a person of seniority and superior experience. In my understanding, the above mentioned characteristics of foxy cunning is not part of the semantics. However, I repeat to never have seen any of the productions. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:09, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

In Das Boot

Jürgen Prochnow as Kapitänleutnant (abbr. "Kaleun", German pronunciation: [kaˈlɔɪ̯n]) and also called "Der Alte" ("the Old Man") by his crew: A 30-year-old battle-hardened but good-hearted and sympathetic sea veteran, he complains to Werner that most of his crew members are boys.[4]

--Error (talk) 20:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

In English "the Old One" means the devil (see wiktionary: Old One), which might explain the addition of "Fox". Also the ZDF international sales website seems to be available only in English or German, so most international buyers will probably communicate in English and see the English version of the series title. 213.125.184.4 (talk) 14:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC) Martin.

Only part true, I guess. It's probably mainly that "Der Alte" carries certain connotations that would get lost in translation. (I guess the capital A means that it should be interpreted as a noun or nominal title, rather than an adjective.) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:04, 25 July 2024 (UTC)