Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 18

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November 18

Template:Norio Osada

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:03, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Norio Osada (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Norio Osada has only ever directed one single film. There is no need for a template. Not even a category would be necessary. Nicholas0 (talk) 21:28, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The subject doesn't even have an article. Softlavender (talk) 07:35, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Per nom. Although Osada has written for several other films, there is no article or content in the film articles to establish notability of his writing. User:Axisixa [talk] [contribs] 09:14, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete, only one film and no parent article. Frietjes (talk) 14:02, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Norio Osada (Q17129170) is more notable as a Japanese screenwriter than a director and we do have a substantial Japanese Wikipedia article about him. His screenwriting credits are substantial in Japanese TV and film (many are notable enough to have Japanese Wikipedia articles even if they do not have English articles). English articles for films with him as a screenwriter include: Blackmail Is My Life (1968), Under the Flag of the Rising Sun (1972), Lady Snowblood (1973), Lady Snowblood: Love Song of Vengeance (1974), Number Ten Blues (2013; filmed in 1975). Perhaps the navbox could be converted to more than just his director credits. 50.53.1.21 (talk) 16:09, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Contains Korean text

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Contains Korean text (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Same reason as Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 7#Template:Contains_Chinese_text . Timmyshin (talk) 16:41, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Not everyone has CJK fonts. KMF (talk) 18:17, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: We should make this decision based on facts. According to Help:Multilingual support (East Asian), CJKV fonts come pre-installed in Windows beginning with Windows Vista. This leaves users of Windows XP and older with the need to install fonts and, hence, instructions to do so. You can see which OSs are used to access Wikimedia sites here. XP (Windows NT 5.1 and 5.2) has a share of 3.95%, which is not negligible. Older systems are less common. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:09, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But that report is from 2015. Notice also Windows XP from Asia all had CJK pre-installed. Timmyshin (talk) 19:32, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

True, Timmyshin. One would expect that these figures are somewhat lower as of 2017, but not dramatically so. Unfortunately the reports have been discontinued since. In any case, the question is: how small a percentage of users is enough to justify this accessibility feature. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:37, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Quite dramatically so: a more up to date browser breakdown is here, and gives Windows XP a 1.3% share, of which an unknown number already have CJK fonts installed. The dramatic drop probably has something to do with Mediawikil limiting support for older browsers; older versions of IE still work but have Javascript disabled for a much worse experience - see mw: Compatibility.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 14:18, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - CJK fonts are pre-installed in probably a vast majority of computers. Both my 5-year-old Canadian iMac and newer MacBook came with them pre-installed, as did all the Android phones and iPhones I've had in the last ten years. -Zanhe (talk) 20:09, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - All major desktop (Win, Mac) and mobile (iOS, Android) operating systems have had Korean/Japanese font support for ages. User:Axisixa [talk] [contribs] 08:57, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - As Finnusertop pointed out, as of the last report, a small but significant number of users have systems old enough to potentially face trouble. As the report was only 2 years old, it seems best to err on the side of caution and avoid inconveniencing so many users who probably aren't extremely technically literate in the first place. Jwuthe2 (talk) 11:51, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete, if you see a bunch of boxes you know you are missing fonts. no need to tell everyone who has the fonts installed about this issue. if anything, these sorts of font notices should be automatically handled by the backend server. Frietjes (talk) 14:00, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete per Axisixa, all consumer desktop and mobile OSes include Korean support and have done for a decade or so. Anyone still on an older OS, not installing support manually is not going to do so now.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 14:18, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete per JohnBlackburne yoyo (talk) 15:06, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Why does the template about Arabic still remain then? Does this stem from the East Asian bias on Wikipedia?--Adûnâi (talk) 12:33, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- My guess is because lazy/ignorant programmers don't know how to implement RTL. Suzukaze-c (talk) 23:06, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Just beacuse some may have problem, not everybody has. No reason to delete. Rmir2 (talk) 12:41, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per JohnBlackburne CrayFishBob (talk) 05:38, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. No reason to delete. Some people don't have fonts installed that can display characters in languages like Korean or Japanese. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Screenshot of Korean Wikipedia Main Page (in Chrome 34.0 and Simplified Chinese version of Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB, without Korean Supplemental Fonts)

Comment: By default, only one Korean font (Malgun Gothic) is included in non-Korean version of Windows 10, other Korean fonts which were included in previous versions of Windows (Batang & BatangChe, Gungsuh & GungsuhChe, Gulim & GulimChe and Dotum & DotumChe) are no longer included. So if you use a old-version of some third-party web browser (which was released earlier than Windows 10), Korean characters may display as square boxes instead. See instructions in Microsoft Support Center and the picture above.--Dabao qian (talk) 12:47, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Suprising Chrome 34 fails so badly, but then it’s a version created before Windows 10 came out, so they could not test it against it. I reiterate what I wrote below though, it would be very odd to download and install a three year old version of Chrome and run it on Windows 10. Not only for the compatibility problems but for all the security holes discovered in the last three years that have been patched in newer versions. Even if you tried Chrome’s aggressive auto-update might upgrade it before you had much chance to use it. So few people are using such an old version - only 0.19% according to the stats – and I would think almost all of them are using older OS versions, constrained from upgrading any apps that no longer support their version of the OS.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 17:08, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Contains Japanese text

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Contains Japanese text (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Same reason as Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 November 7#Template:Contains_Chinese_text . Timmyshin (talk) 16:39, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Obsolete text. Template created back when support for UTF-8 and other non-Unicode languages were bad. TheInfernoX (talk) 18:00, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Assuming that every Wikipedia user has a CJK font installed is a bad idea. KMF (talk) 18:17, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: See my comment above regarding user statistics. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:21, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete see my comment above. -Zanhe (talk) 20:10, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Per my vote at § Template:KoreanText. User:Axisixa [talk] [contribs] 09:00, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete, if you see a bunch of boxes you know you are missing fonts. no need to tell everyone who has the fonts installed about this issue. if anything, these sorts of font notices should be automatically handled by the backend server. Frietjes (talk) 14:00, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete per my vote at § Template:KoreanText. yoyo (talk) 15:08, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete for the same reasons as above and previously: all consumer OSes for a decade or so have included support. Anyone who is confused by what they are seeing is better served by a link to Japanese language which should always be there in some form.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 15:58, 19 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Just beacuse some may have problem, not everybody has. No reason to delete. Rmir2 (talk) 12:41, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per JohnBlackburne CrayFishBob (talk) 05:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete. Unnecessary. Clutters up the presentation. – ishwar (speak) 20:24, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: By default, only one Japanese font (Yu Gothic & Yu Gothic UI) is included in non-Japanese version of Windows 10, other Japanese fonts which were included in previous versions of Windows (Meiryo & Meiryo UI, MS Mincho & MS PMincho, MS Gothic & MS PGothic & MS UI Gothic and Yu Mincho) are no longer included. So if you use a old-version of some third-party web browser (which was released earlier than Windows 10), Japanese characters may display as square boxes instead. See instructions in Microsoft Support Center.--Dabao qian (talk) 12:04, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- It seems unlikely browsers would be affected. Other apps perhaps, but the whole point of a browser is to display whatever is on a web page as best as possible. Rather than hard-coding fonts they will use system defaults, i.e. ask the OS for whatever it has. Also older browsers tend to be used on older OSes, On modern OSes up to date browsers are the norm, with OS updates of the browser software pushing out updates without users even asking.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 12:20, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, not only browsers but also other apps perhaps. These older apps usually directly use a specific font to display Japanese characters, such as MS PMincho (serif) or MS Gothic (sans-serif), rather than use font fallback. But now Windows 10 is released over 2 years, I think most of the third-party apps can all display Japanese characters correctly by font fallback.--Dabao qian (talk) 12:39, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:TGIF (ABC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus to delete or keep. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:58, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:TGIF (ABC) (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Not a suitable topic for a navigation template. The only thing they have in common is a network timeslot, so this fails most of the points at WP:NAVBOX. --wooden superman 12:21, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

weak keep, there is a parent article and the scope is now limited since the programming block is now defunct. there was cross-promotion between the shows in the same block "with the goal of encouraging young viewers to watch the entire lineup, instead of just a particular show". Frietjes (talk) 14:29, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades^Godric 16:14, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep, although there's a parent article, it's a helpful navigator. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:18, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Empire RT scores S1

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was no consensus to delete, but there doesn't seem to be any objection to merging the content with the articles Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:58, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Empire RT scores S1 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Template:Empire RT scores S2 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

fortunately, these templates are not being used Frietjes (talk) 18:33, 10 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep They have been re-added to Empire (season 1) and Empire (season 2), respectively, and these types of templates are used on over 60 other articles. [1] - Brojam (talk) 04:11, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- there is no reason to keep it a separate template, and you are double counting, if you want the number in articles, try this search which shows under 30. Frietjes (talk) 13:19, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades^Godric 16:14, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -- Alex^TW 15:21, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Infobox Chinese-language singer and actor

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was relisted on 2017 November 26. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:10, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Infobox_Chinese-language_singer_and_actor (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Template:Infobox_person (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

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Template:PD-art-3d

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The result of the discussion was relisted on 2017 November 26. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:56, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:PD-art-3d (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:PD-USGov-Congress-AOC

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:54, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Template:PD-USGov-Congress-AOC (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused, replaceable by {{PD-USGov}} FASTILY 01:04, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).