Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Avery Brundage/archive1

Addressed comments from Crisco 1492

• No comments on prose yet. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:42, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I will work though these, most likely tonight. Regarding Brundage 1941.JPG, Brundage at AAU 1963.jpg and Brundage Corbally.jpg, I got those from copies in libraries of the entire publication and checked very carefully at the time, but did not make copies of the entire publication. I would not have taken copies of the images without a very careful check.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:17, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I've done all but the two Bundesarchiv images, I will do those tonight.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:40, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

The requested changes are all done. The La Salle Hotel image was deleted; as Brundage didn't build it, it seems marginally relevant (I would rather wait until the next time I am in Chicago and then go take an image of a building built by Brundage). --Wehwalt (talk) 00:32, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• Alright, images looks swell. I hope to look over the prose in the next few days. I'm not well-versed in sports, though, so some of my questions may be a little obvious to sports fans. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:00, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the image check. That's fine. The article is written assuming some basic knowledge of sports, but not very much. I assume the reader knows what the Olympics are, that kind of thing.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:09, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Prose comments from Crisco 1492

• "when he was age five, his father abandoned his wife and children." - Perhaps "when he was age five, Brundage's father abandoned the family", to avoid ambiguity.

I've played with that a bit in a way I hope will avoid ambiguity.

• Hmm, "his father moved his family to Chicago and his wife and children." looks like it's missing a word. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• "In 1912, he competed in the Summer Olympics, contesting the pentathlon and decathlon, but did not medal; both events were won by Jim Thorpe." - Why not "In 1912, he competed in the pentathlon and decathlon at the the Summer Olympics, but did not medal; both events were won by Jim Thorpe." Also, I question whether Thorpe's medalling is important enough for the lede in Brundage's article.

Yes, because the Thorpe controversy is something Brundage is remembered for. I always try to meet what I think will be what readers expect to see. Not mentioning Thorpe would stand out to a reader who knows about Brundage.

• May want to indicate that there was controversy; readers who know nothing of Brundage will wonder why that is pertinent. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• It's hard to see how to do that without a sidetracking explanation.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:01, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• Legacy section should be represented in the lede
• "local Olympic organizing committee, Theodor Lewald, as he had a Jewish grandmother," - A link to the German Wikipedia is useless for English readers. I'd suggest a redlink.

I compromised. I used a redlink in the image caption and the interwiki link here.

• "exactly what evidence, he didn't say." - Emphasis in original?

Yes, reproduced exactly.

• " Glickman went on to a lengthy career as a sports broadcaster, and was given the inaugural Douglas MacArthur Award (for lifetime achievement in the field of sports) in 1998, after Stoller's death, by the United States Olympic Committee (successor to the AOC)." - Is this pertinent to the main body of text? Might be better as a footnote

No, because it explains the context in which the USOC was basically throwing Brundage's body under the bus there. I have to mention the award, so it is necessary to explain how Glickman earned it. It's a matter of continuity, which is always a point of emphasis in my writing. I try not to surprise the reader, or leave things without at least some explanation.

• K, that's it for today. Done up to IOC President and Retirement — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:50, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I will work on the matters where I have not defended the existing version tonight I hope.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:54, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I fixed up the matter of the father, and added something about the Munich decision being criticized.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• Okay, looks much better. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

• "other past or current Amateur Athletic Union officials at the 1963 AAU convention" - Past or current, or past or contemporary, or...? Current suggests at least some of these men are still in the AAU.
• Marquess of Exeter - Wikilink to David Cecil, 6th Marquess of Exeter? Don't think he's been linked yet.

He was piped as Lord Burghley, Brundage's 1952 opponent. His transition to being Marquess of Exeter is mentioned in the Germany section.

• "Although the Soviet system remained in place, Western nations reacted by giving their athletes greater state support." - Doesn't sound right with "Although". Perhaps "as" or "because"?
• "caused a sensation by briefly displaying a sign "UNDER PROTEST" at the Opening Ceremony" - Are we allowed ALLCAPS? Also, is there a word missing after "sign"?
• Giulio Onesti - Probably shouldn't link to the Italian wikipedia.
• "early Tuesday" - The date? I remember something about generally not using names of days

It's in a quotation.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• You can put it in [square brackets]; I think the date would allow the sentence to be better comprehended. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I put the clarifying information in brackets, so that the reader isn't deprived of any of the quote.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:09, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• Sounds good. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• Rest tomorrow. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:14, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your efforts. Those things you mentioned that I did not comment on are done.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:18, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• "Brundage had initially married in 1927, when he was 40, to Elizabeth Dunlap, daughter of a Chicago banker. " - Perhaps something like "Brundage had initially married Elizabeth Dunlap, daughter of a Chicago banker, in 1927, when he was 40." "had initially married ... to" sounds odd to me
• "Initially, a large source of the Avery Brundage Company's business, after its founding in 1915, was wartime government contracts." - Lot of commas here. Perhaps "After its founding in 1915, a large source of the Avery Brundage Company's business was wartime government contracts."
• "the hotel became famous in international sports in that capacity." - As a home?

As his home, yes. He had a large penthouse suite, plus a lot of storage devoted to Asian items.

• "We [that is, his first wife Elizabeth and himself] spent a week at the exhibition and I came away so enamored with Chinese art that I've been broke ever since." - is that square bracket in the original? Don't think we need "that is"
• "On his return to the United States after the 1939 IOC session in London in June," - "On his return to the United States after the June 1939 IOC session in London", perhaps?

• Alright, that's it. I've made a few changes myself, you may want to double check them. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:26, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

They look fine. I didn't know you could put an nbsp inside a link like that without having to pipe. Nice. Thanks for your review. I'll work through the remaining points. No, the square bracket is not in the original. Since Brundage speaks as "we" in the Munich speech, I felt disambiguation was necessary but your way is fine--Wehwalt (talk) 00:44, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

I've done those. Also changed the La Salle hotel bit. Thanks again.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:00, 16 June 2012 (UTC)