Wikipedia talk:Selected anniversaries/August 6

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Atomic bombing of Hiroshima

Whilst I think it is a good thing to rewrite anniversary entries to keep things fresh. However the rewrite on the bombing of Hiroshima, is inappropriate in my opinion. It previously read

• 1945 - The United States dropped an atomic bomb ("Little Boy") on Hiroshima, Japan, killing an 80,000 people outright.

along with an image that was previously an historical view of the destruction of Hiroshima, that I had recently changed to a Wikipedian's photo of the Genbaku Dome which is now a peace memorial marking the event.

Now User:PFHLai has twice rewritten it as

• 1945 - World War II: Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb named Little Boy on Hiroshima, Japan.

whilst replacing the image with one of little boy.

The problem is that this wording shifts the focus from 'thousands of people were killed in the first use of an nuclear bomb' to 'a technological bomb was dropped on a city'. Whilst many people might be interested in the plane and the bomb and the nuclear physics, on the 60th anniversary of the first use of nuclear weapons it is rather more appropriate to remember the human effects and the resulting peace memorial. -- Solipsist 06:36, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

That's too POV, I think. Explicitly redirecting the reader's attention to the number of civilians killed would be an attempt use their emotional reactions to suggest a particular view, that is, that the dropping of the bomb was bad. Wikipedia should not only report facts, but it should stick to the relevant facts. --malathion ^talk 06:39, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

We'd best call for comment, there only a day or so to get this decided. -- Solipsist 07:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm surprised I didn't get an edit conflict when I rewrote the item about the end of the Holy Roman Empire. I pressed the "Go Back" button to add a link to 'abdication', and I didn't even know I would revert Solipsist's edit. Hmmm... Anyway, good that I looked at my watchlist ..... good that Wikipedia keeps an edit history ....

I wasn't thinking about POV or anything when I made my edits. I like Image:Little boy.jpg because it's in English Wikipedia and easier to Mprotect. I took out the picture of the Genbaku Dome because the text may get too wordy in order to relate to the picture. I've have just restored Image:A-bomb dome closeup.jpg, with a slightly shortened ALT blurb. (Please Mprotected it at the Commons.) I took out the fatality count because I couldn't get the figure straight. The articles says "at least 120,000 people outright", not 80,000. I dunno which is right. I don't want to put questionable facts on the MainPage. And Enola Gay is a much better link to put on the MainPage than United States for this anniversary.

Is this good enough an explanation ? I may or may not be able to sign in tomorrow. Please go ahead and make changes the way you think is best. Cheers. -- PFHLai 07:50, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

Yes, I would agree the 80,000 figure is not ideal - in part because the actual number of people involved is more complicated - but it is also POV to ignore the human angle completely. (thanks for the explanation on the revert) -- Solipsist 07:56, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Ooops... This is a little embarrassing: I misread the article ! The 120k number in the first sentence of Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki refers to both Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and 80k for Hiroshima alone is actually correct. I'll put the number back onto the Sel.Anniv. template. -- PFHLai 19:57, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

I'd say that the second version is definitely worse than the first -- the Enola Gay is, of course, not sentient, and I think it looks odd to ascribe the dropping of the bomb to the plane. It's a U.S. government decision and should be noted as such. I would lean towards a mention of the casualties. The reason this is a selected anniversary is not that it is the first A-Bomb drop ever (the Manhattan Project had tests prior to this) or the biggest bomb ever --it's that it was the first atomic bomb dropped as an act of war intending to cause casualties. As such, explicit mention of a casualty figure is relevant to the reason it's an anniversary (just ask yourself...had Little Boy been test-dropped on an atoll on the 6th of August and killed no one, would it qualify as a selected anniversary?). Any writeup that doesn't mention casulaties is unnecessarily revisionist. No need to over-emotionalize the topic (I think the word "outright" in the first version tinges the sentence a bit, but maybe I'm over-reacting), but definitely a need to mention a casualty figure. Jwrosenzweig 07:52, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

To me, it make good sense to ascribe the dropping of the bomb to the plane, as the bomb was indeed released from the plane and then it went downwards where it was detonated. Of course, it was the US government who controlled things from afar, and I ain't saying 'the US dropped the bomb on Hiroshima' is inaccurate or wrong, but I suppose 'deploy' might be a better verb than 'drop' in this case ....

I don't like the word 'outright' either. I am more familiar with its use to mean 'openly and without reservation' or 'with no outstanding conditions', rather than to mean 'at once'. I may change it. -- PFHLai 19:57, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

PFHLai's point about the Enola Gay link is a reasonable one...but as the highlighted article is the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I don't see it as a major reason to remove the U.S. from being mentioned altogether. A writeup that included both links would be fine by me, but possibly too long. Jwrosenzweig 07:53, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Maybe I should clarify what I meant: For this blurb on the Sel.Anniv.section on the MainPage, a link to the wikipage Enola Gay is much better than a link to the wikipage United States. The former is obviously relevant, but the latter has hardly any info relevant to this anniversary. Perhaps we can mention that Enola Gay is a B-29 Superfortress of the U.S. Army Air Force, eh ? -- PFHLai 19:57, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

How's about;

• 1945 - The United States dropped an atomic bomb ("Little Boy") on Hiroshima, Japan, killing most of the city's population.

-- Solipsist 17:19, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Not bad....to take in PFH's idea, though, I counter with

• 1945 - The USAAF bomber Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb ("Little Boy") on Hiroshima, Japan, killing roughly 80,000 citizens instantly.

--Jwrosenzweig 22:11, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

How about this ?

• 1945 - The USAAF bomber Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb named Little Boy, devastating Hiroshima, Japan.

Is shorter better ? I don't mind having the death toll back in there, but I really don't like brackets. BTW, it's about time to protect things coming onto the MainPage. -- PFHLai 22:51, 2005 August 5 (UTC)

Is a presidential breifing really that important?

Is a breifing of the US president really more important than, say, the independance of Bolivia? Gentgeen 20:41, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I realize now that Bolivia's independance is in the holiday section, didn't see that before. However, a daily breifing (which August 6 notes contained no actionable inteligence) isn't really one of the five most important things to happen August 6. Besides, three (or four if you count Tim Berners-Lee, who later moved to the US) of the five items are US related. Gentgeen 20:53, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I've displaced the item about the daily briefing with one about Shaikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahayan becoming emir and ruler of Abu Dhabi in 1966. Better now ? :-) -- PFHLai 23:16, 2005 August 6 (UTC)

Holy Roman Empire - error in naming

The name should be changed to 'Holy Roman Nation of the German Nation' as it was officially named at that time, pls see article. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.79.182.210 (talk) 11:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

We usually refer to the commonly used name instead of the official name, just like we would print "Mexico" instead of the "United Mexican States". Note that the article is still named Holy Roman Empire, and the link to Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation redirects to that page. Cheers. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 15:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

2012 notes

• Moved to Ineligible: Electric chair (maintenance)
• New articles (unused): Battle of Oriskany
• Omitted: Bogotá (ineligible—maintenance); Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor; Enola Gay/Little Boy; Prometheus (tree); Allan Hills 84001
• Included: Battle of Kletsk (first appearance); Joseph Force Crater (2nd appearance, last in 2010); DuMont Television Network (first appearance); Tim Berners-Lee (8th appearance, last in 2010); 2008 Mauritanian coup d'état (3rd appearance, last in 2010)

—howcheng {chat} 08:02, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

2013 notes

• Moved to Ineligible: Enola Gay/Little Boy (currently undergoing major revisions)
• Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Voting Rights Act
• Omitted: Joseph Force Crater; DuMont Television Network; Jamaica; Tim Berners-Lee; 2008 Mauritanian coup d'état
• Included: Battle of Oriskany (first appearance); Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (4th appearance, last in 2011); Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan (3rd appearance, last in 2007; rescued from Ineligible); Tompkins Square Park Riot (1988) (first appearance; rescued from Ineligible; 25th anniversary)
• Repeats: Battle of Kletsk (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total)

—howcheng {chat} 05:57, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

2014 notes

• Moved to Ineligible: Voting Rights Act of 1965 (TFA for 2014)
• Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Enola Gay/Little Boy
• New articles (unused): Death of Mark Duggan/2011 England riots
• Omitted: Battle of Kletsk; Battle of Oriskany; Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan; Tompkins Square Park Riot (1988)
• Included: Electric chair (6th appearance, last in 2010; rescued from Ineligible); Prometheus (tree) (2nd appearance, last in 2011; 50th anniversary); Tim Berners-Lee (9th appearance, last in 2012); 2010 Ladakh floods (first appearance)
• Repeats: Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total)

—howcheng {chat} 05:05, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

2015 notes

• Deleted: Jamaica (still included as observance)
• Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Voting Rights Act of 1965 (not the 50th anniversary)
• Omitted: Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor; Prometheus (tree); Tim Berners-Lee; 2010 Ladakh floods
• Included: Battle of Kletsk (3rd appearance, last in 2013); Enola Gay/Little Boy (both: 3rd appearance, last in 2011); Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan (5th appearance, last in 2013); Death of Mark Duggan/2011 England riots (both: first appearance)
• Repeats: Electric chair (2nd consecutive appearance, 7 total)

—howcheng {chat} 06:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

2016 notes

• Omitted: Electric chair; Enola Gay/Little Boy; Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan (ineligible—maintenance); Death of Mark Duggan
• Included: Battle of Oriskany (2nd appearance, last in 2013); Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (6th appearance, last in 2014); DuMont Television Network (2nd appearance, last in 2012; 60th anniversary); Allan Hills 84001 (2nd appearance, last in 2011; 20th anniversary)
• Repeats: Battle of Kletsk (2nd consecutive appearance, 4 total)

—howcheng {chat} 05:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

2017 notes

• Moved to Ineligible: Prometheus (tree) (maintenance); Tompkins Square Park riot (1988) (maintenance)
• Omitted: Feast of the Transfiguration (ineligible—maintenance); Jamaica; Battle of Oriskany; Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor (ineligible—maintenance); DuMont Television Network; Allan Hills 84001
• Included: Electric chair (8th appearance, last in 2015); Enola Gay/Little Boy (both: 4th appearance, last in 2015); Tim Berners-Lee (10th appearance, last in 2014); 2008 Mauritanian coup d'état (4th appearance, last in 2012); Bulstrode Whitelocke (first appearance); Daniel O'Connell (first appearance); Bix Beiderbecke (first appearance)
• Repeats: Battle of Kletsk (3rd consecutive appearance, 5 total)

—howcheng {chat} 06:54, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

2018 notes

• New articles (unused): Jennie de la Montagnie Lozier
• Omitted: Electric chair (ineligible—maintenance); Enola Gay/Little Boy; Tim Berners-Lee; Bulstrode Whitelocke; Daniel O'Connell; Bix Beiderbecke
• Included: Battle of Oriskany (3rd appearance, last in 2016); Voting Rights Act of 1965 (2nd appearance, last in 2008); Korean Air Flight 801 (first appearance); Death of Mark Duggan/2011 England riots (both: 2nd appearance, last in 2015); James Henry Greathead (first appearance); William McCrea, Baron McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (first appearance); Vera Farmiga (first appearance)
• Repeats: 2008 Mauritanian coup d'état (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total; 10th anniversary)

—howcheng {chat} 16:28, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

2019 notes

• New articles (unused): Virginia Randolph
• Omitted: Voting Rights Act of 1965; Korean Air Flight 801; 2008 Mauritanian coup d'état; Death of Mark Duggan/2011 England riots; James Henry Greathead; William McCrea, Baron McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown; Vera Farmiga
• Included: Tim Berners-Lee (11th appearance, last in 2017); Allan Hills 84001 (3rd appearance, last in 2016); 2013 Rosario gas explosion (first appearance); Stephen V of Hungary (first appearance); George Kenney (first appearance); Jennie de la Montagnie Lozier (first appearance)
• Repeats: Battle of Oriskany (2nd consecutive appearance, 4 total)

—howcheng {chat} 16:32, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

2020 notes

• Deleted: Virginia Randolph (moved to March 16)
• Moved to Ineligible: Bulstrode Whitelocke (maintenance)
• New articles (unused): Diego Velázquez; Lucille Ball; Shapour Bakhtiar
• Omitted: Tim Berners-Lee; 2013 Rosario gas explosion; Stephen V of Hungary; George Kenney; Jennie de la Montagnie Lozier
• Included: Enola Gay/Little Boy (both: 5th appearance, last in 2017; 75th anniversary); 2010 Ladakh floods (2nd appearance, last in 2014; 10th anniversary); Saint Dominic (first appearance); Michelle Yeoh (first appearance); Edsger W. Dijkstra (first appearance)
• Repeats: Battle of Oriskany (3rd consecutive appearance, 5 total); Allan Hills 84001 (2nd consecutive appearance, 4 total)

—howcheng {chat} 03:06, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

2021 notes

• Omitted: Battle of Oriskany; Enola Gay/Little Boy; Allan Hills 84001; 2010 Ladakh floods; Michelle Yeoh; Edsger W. Dijkstra
• Included: Lagos Treaty of Cession (first appearance); Electric chair (9th appearance, last in 2017; rescued from Ineligible); Voting Rights Act of 1965 (3rd appearance, last in 2018); Tim Berners-Lee (12th appearance, last in 2019; 30th anniversary); Bix Beiderbecke (2nd appearance, last in 2017; 90th anniversary); Shapour Bakhtiar (first appearance; 30th anniversary)
• Repeats: Saint Dominic (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total; 800th anniversary)

—howcheng {chat} 17:04, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Format error in OTD

Under Today's "On This Day", the text states U.S. president Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act into law , outlawing literacy tests and other discriminatory voting practices that had been responsible for the widespread disfranchisement of African Americans. The comma between law and outlawing has an extra space. GuardianH (talk) 03:30, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

2022 notes

• Moved to Ineligible: DuMont Television Network (maintenance)
• Omitted: Lagos Treaty of Cession; Electric chair (ineligible—maintenance); Tim Berners-Lee; Saint Dominic; Bix Beiderbecke; Shapour Bakhtiar
• Included: Battle of Oriskany (6th appearance, last in 2020); Enola Gay/Little Boy (both: 6th appearance, last in 2020); 2008 Mauritanian coup d'état (6th appearance, last in 2018); Stephen V of Hungary (2nd appearance, last in 2019; 950th anniversary); George Kenney (2nd appearance, last in 2019); Vera Farmiga (2nd appearance, last in 2018)
• Repeats: Voting Rights Act of 1965 (2nd consecutive appearance, 4 total)

—howcheng {chat} 20:04, 8 August 2022 (UTC)