Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Education in Canada/Archive4

Categories

Just a quick question regarding categories. Currently, the main article for the project states that "[except Ontario] none of the other provinces or territories have broken the categories down to cities or regions." This not true, as there is the Category:High schools in Edmonton as well as Category:High schools in Calgary and even Category:High schools in Vancouver (I would link them, but not exactly sure of the markup to do that). Being new to this whole thing (just came to add the article for my school actually) I have no idea why this is, or what should be done about it, so I thought I would put it up here for your discussion. Looking at previous talk pages, this seems to have come up, and these categories have now been created. Should we updated the project page to accept this or what? Codplay 02:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Links to categories have been updated for you, Codplay. PKT 13:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Concordia University (Montreal)

Just a headsup, User:Uac1530 moved Concordia University to Concordia University (Montreal) unilaterally, ignoring a previous naming discussion/straw poll that was to keep ConU at ConU. This move has since been reverted, but one wonders what Uac1530 will do in the future. 132.205.64.80 21:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

We should keep an eye on this, I encourage everyone to add it to their watch list. It's been a point of debate before. Ardenn 03:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

This move is a debate whether as the Title we should use the French, official name of the school or it's English Equivalent.

The WikiProject's convention says it's the French... the Wikipedia's Convention it depends how you see it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deenoe (talk • contribs) 03:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC).

Talk:De La Salle Secondary School --Ardenn 03:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Journalist (talk · contribs)

This dude seems to own the University of Toronto article, and sometimes assumes bad faith. A good example is when I removed a spam link there, he took issue with it. We may want to keep an eye on both of these. Ardenn 03:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

C&U structure proposal

Moved this topic back from archive #3 since I'm not certain if this was finished or is still a work-in-progress. --Stephane Charette 18:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I had initially missed the reference in a comment above as to where exactly the discussion on the new C&U structure proposal is taking place. For anyone else who missed this:

• the proposal is Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada/U&C Structure Proposal
• discussion on the proposal is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Education in Canada/U&C Structure Proposal

--Stephane Charette 09:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Abbreviations in school names and article titles

The topic of abbreviations in school names and article titles has been highlighted due to the schools over at {{OCCSB}}. There are quite a few schools there that are named "St.", such as St. Nicholas, St. Joseph, St. Mark, St. Matthew High, St. Patrick's, St. Paul, St. Peter, and St. Pius X.

The question to ask ourselves is: Should the article titles be "St.", or "Saint"? For example, should it be:

• St. Pius X High School (Ottawa)
• or Saint Pius X High School (Ottawa)?

If we look at the people after whom these schools have been named, we don't have St. Pius X, but we do have Saint Pius X.

--Stephane Charette 19:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• I could go either way, but for consistency, I guess spelling it out would be best. --Usgnus 19:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
• I'd also like to be consistent; I vote to keep the guideline we have and rename the articles to spell out abbreviations. --Stephane Charette 21:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm having second thoughts. It's so common to abbreviate Saint and Sainte that perhaps we should continue that tradition if the school and the school board consistently use the abbreviation. We have St. John's and Sault Ste. Marie, although Saint John, New Brunswick is spelled out. --Usgnus 03:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• I'd like to get more opinions, so it isn't just Usgnus and myself trying to figure out what our guidelines should be. Please post your opinions on this topic!  :) --Stephane Charette 03:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
• This still has not been resolved. For now, I guess we're not moving any articles strictly based on abbreviation of Saint or Sainte. --Usgnus 03:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• I think it is best to go with common usage. School board page is obvious place to get this from. The same problem occurs with towns and cities with some being St. and some Saint. Maps, guides, etc seem go with one or the other and are mostly consitant. Good chance for the good ole REDIRECT wiki tag coming from less used version. --Everett 22:03, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
  • A real good example would be from the Maritimes. "Saint John", N.B. is always spelled out. "St Johns", Nfld., never is. Assuming such schools exist they should have Wiki topics "Saint John High School, New Brunswick", "St Johns High School, Newfoundland". --Everett 20:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Still got plenty of Vancouver school pics needing articles

Since the list got archived, I'm going to keep a version of it in my userspace, in here. So if anyone is bored, feel free to write stubs for them or something. :) -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 03:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Note that prior to archiving, I moved the list of images to the project page. See WP:EiC#Pictures without articles for the new image gallery. --Stephane Charette 11:09, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

College and university categories

Most provinces have a unified "universities and colleges" category, but for some reason Ontario's and Quebec's have been removed, with the separate "universities" and "colleges" categories being filed separately as subcategories of Category:Universities and colleges in Canada. This is not acceptable; consistency of category structure requires one of these two approaches:

• either all provinces get separate university and college categories filed directly in the national parent,
• Ontario and Quebec go back to having a "Universities and colleges in X" parent between the national category and the subcategories.

So which is it going to be? Bearcat 03:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I imagine it was done that way, because there are so many articles in those provinces, yet in the others there are so few. Ardenn 03:48, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Especially in PEI, it does not make any sense to have two seperate categories. Yet in Ontario, it does make sense. Ardenn 03:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I see what Bearcat is saying. I also like consistency -- I think the trick here is to understand that Wikipedia doesn't like to see empty categories simply for the sake of consistency. This is why we don't have an empty "University and colleges in X" parent category between the national category and the subcategories. It is exactly these "inconsistencies" that typically keep me from wanting to participate in discussions about categories. --Stephane Charette 11:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Category:Performing Arts education by country

There is a category series on Performing Arts education in Country, Category:Performing arts education in Canada has been created. Paul foord 14:50, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

New Member Request

I am new to Wikipedia but I am interested in helping with this project. I am interested in schools in Norfolk County, ON and the Brant Haldimand Norfolk Catholic District School Board. --Mmn100 15:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome. Great choice -- I've slowly been going over the Norfolk County schools, or rather, been going through the Grand Erie District School Board, and I could use some help. Note that just 2 days ago I created the navigation bar for Grand Erie District School Board, so at least we have them grouped together. Best place to start if you're interested in Norfolk would be to look through WP:EiC#Cleanup needed to see if you recognize any of those schools. Many from July are from your area of interest. I'd like to get them up to the standard of Delhi Public School (Ontario), which isn't much as far as content is concerned, but at least what is there is properly cited. --Stephane Charette 17:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I will get to work on those local schools. --Mmn100 18:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I am also new to wiki, and the whole Project concept. I'd like to help with Quebec schools in the Lester B. Pearson Schoolboard, and schools that were part of the defunct Baldwin Cartier schoolboard. Let me know where I should do next? Misterjerk2 14:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello! I would strongly suggest taking a look at the school district in the area you are interested in prior to school articles. I have two that I worked on recently that I can provide as possible template approaches: TDSB and Peel District School Board. Both were re-written to deal with specific issues they previously had. They're not perfect, nor do you have to do school districts in this way, but you asked for a place to start.  :) The main project page has many links to useful templates, and the template pages themselves often have usage help to get started. Feel free to leave a message here on WT:EiC, or on my own talk page, if you need some assistance. --Stephane Charette 21:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I was hitting the ol' Random Article link and I happened upon Olds College, now, I didn't know anything about the college, but I decided to clean it up and would like to continue to help if it would be of service to you. Go ahead and leave me a message on my talk page if you need any more help. -- Kaobear 17:30, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I'd be interested in working on some schools in my district (Simcoe County District School Board). I'm new so I was wondering if someone could show me how to add a school page and modify it? thanks :) -- lovelaughterlife

I'd start by taking a look at Simcoe County District School Board to see if it can be cleaned up. I started reading it just now, but it reads like cut-and-paste clips of press releases and couldn't get through the article. Something else that needs to be done is the navigation bar for Simcoe County District School Board. For that, you'll need to take a look at WP:EiC#School board navboxes and {{Navbox Education in Canada}}. Looking through Category:Canadian education navigational boxes, I suspect you'll need to create a new template called {{SCDSBSchools}}. Once you have {{SCDSBSchools}}, it will be easier for you to see where help is needed for that school board. --Stéphane Charette 23:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

okay, great! I'll start working on that! -- lovelaughterlife 22:56, 29 September 2006 (ET)

Captialization in section headings

I've noticed an increased trend to capitalize every word in section headings. This is contrary to Wikipedia's Manual of Style; note that WP:MoS#Wording describes how only the first word (and proper nouns) of section headings be capitalized. For example:

• "School Song" -> "School song"
• "School Colours and Mascot" -> "School colours and mascot"
• "Clubs and Departments" -> "Clubs and departments"

Please help me fix these as you come across them. Thanks! --Stephane Charette 18:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

(I didn't mean this for talk page comments, only articles. Stephane Charette 18:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC))

Another related fix is to not use the article "The" to begin section headings unless necessary. Plus, in general, don't use the article name in a section heading: e.g. instead of "Riverside High School hockey team", use "Hockey team".--Usgnus 19:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

AfD results and Bridge Elementary School

So Bridge Elementary School was speedily deleted today (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bridge Elementary School). The vote result was 14 votes for delete, and 6 for keep. Look for the redlink at {{RichmondBCSchools}}. The final comment was:

The result was SPEEDILY DELETED. I've been veering away from public school debates, but this is one sentence and an infobox. That fails CSD A1. As with any speedy deletion, this is non-binding, so if someone wants to write an article, this AFD poses no obstacle.

I think this highlights (again?) the fact that we need more than just the standard infobox if we want the stubs to survive. --Stephane Charette 19:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Also see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brighouse Elementary School, in the same school district (Richmond, BC) which currently has 11 delete votes and 6 keep votes. --Stephane Charette 19:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Oooh, didn't even know about you guys. I also speedily deleted a ton of one-sentence "Foo Elementary School is a school in Foo, Bar{{navbox}}" microstubs that a new user prodded, for essentially the same reasoning. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

S Charette mentioned that she didn't know how to check which articles I had deleted; here you go, my logs, including my administrative actions. Feel free to turn any of the school links blue, as long as you're giving enough context for expansion (which means more than a sentence and a link). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

The above link does not work (at least for me). this one seems to. --Rob 21:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

That works, although it's deletes only. Which, I guess, would be more relevant. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

New Wikipedia:Schools Proposal

There is a new proposal up on Wikipedia:Schools for what will be acceptable for schools articles. Anyone associated with this project and/or creating articles should review this and consider contributing. Wakemp 16:22, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The emphasis is on preventing unexpandable demographic-only stubs, while posing no obstacle to articles or stubs with demonstrable prospects for expansion. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The proposal is that only school articles that pass one or more of the following would be accepted:

1. The school, or events surrounding the school, have been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the school itself.
   • Discussion on the talk page is that articles in the local town papers do not qualify.
2. The school is a post-secondary school.
3. The school has stood for at least 100 years.
   • This excludes most schools in North America.
4. The school is also a private business, and meets the requirements of WP:CORP.
5. The article is about a school district.
   • This last criteria for including school articles isn't even about schools, but about school boards.

--Stephane Charette 19:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The district thing has been changed, and a school doesn't have to meet all of the criteria, just one of them. #1 is the primary criterion, and everything else is handling special cases (businesses) or cases that can't possibly fail to have significant independent coverage (post-secondary schools, very old schools). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

University of Prince Edward Island

Could a couple of other people "watch" University of Prince Edward Island. A Maclean's article was include, with its copyright notice, from July 21 until I removed it a minute ago. --Usgnus 16:58, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Lester B. Pearson School Board

I have started work on this school board as per my discussion with Stephane Charette. I'm wondering what I should do with the Template as some of the fields don't seem to apply to Quebec schools. Also, I started searching for administered schools for the navbox and saw Pierrefonds Comprehensive High School should I be moving this to Pierrefonds Comprehensive High School (Pierrefonds) if that is the correct nomenclature? - Misterjerk2 16:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

We can change the Canadian School District template to accommodate Quebec. Just tell us what you need. Schools have clarifiers (e.g., the city name in parentheses) only when another school has the exact same name. --Usgnus 16:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll do some more research and come back to you with what I will need. Misterjerk2 20:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Misterjerk2, note that the template only has 5 required fields:

• schoolboardname
• officelocation
• schoolcount
• budget
• studentcount

There are other fields, but those are optional fields. You don't have to use them, and I don't believe any school board currently makes use of every field. --Stephane Charette 23:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Grades for high schools in Quebec

How do we want to specify the grades for high schools in Quebec? They don't have consecutive grades from 1-12 the way the rest of the country works. Somewhere around grade 7 or 8 (I don't remember), they restart numbering at 1. For example, see John Rennie High School (Pointe Claire), where the infobox's grade field currently says "Secondary I-V". We should pick a standard and then document it at WP:EiC#Decisions from previous discussions.

(BTW, shouldn't John Rennie High School (Pointe Claire) be renamed to John Rennie High School. Hmmm, looks like it is a redirect. Ouch, looks like the article was incorrectly moved by cut-and-paste...!)

--Stephane Charette 23:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I fixed up the half redirects and cut-and-paste move. The talk page had not been redirected, and the article only had 1 edit as John Rennie High School (Pointe Claire). Misterjerk2, we normally disambiguate only when we must -- if a school called XYZ doesn't already exist in Wikipedia, then name the article XYZ, not XYZ (ABC).

As for the topic of grades within Quebec, see Education in Canada#Quebec. Their grade systems is as follows:

• Grade 1; 6-7
• Grade 2; 7-8
• Grade 3; 8-9
• Grade 4; 9-10
• Grade 5; 10-11
• Grade 6; 11-12
• Secondary I; 12-13
• Secondary II; 13-14
• Secondary III; 14-15
• Secondary IV; 15-16
• Secondary V; 16-17
• CEGEP

While I may speak French, I'm actually from Ontario, so maybe someone from la belle province can tell us if the standard way to write it really is Secondary III, or Secondary 3, or something altogether different. --Stephane Charette 00:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Stephane, thanks for the fixup on the JRHS article. I saw it was setup with the (cityname) in someone else's navbox, so I thought that was the correct naming convention.. All cleared up now. During my time in Quebec, I always saw the "Grades" (Elementary) as Grade 1, 2, etc. but the "Secondaries" as Secondary I, II etc. But I'm not sure how standard that is.

As for the Elementary grades there is also a Kindergarten/Maternelle before Grade 1 in Quebec, but I had thought it started at age 6, but it might be 5. Misterjerk2 00:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

UPDATED: A good link with grade information in Quebec schools * West Island Business Development Council Misterjerk2 18:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

McMaster University

An anonymous editor keeps removing a section from Talk:McMaster University. --Usgnus 12:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The SAIT article needs to be greatly expanded. It should have the same content as the NAIT article, or the Mount Royal College article. It is among the leading post secondary institutions in Alberta. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kovey17 (talk • contribs) 02:20, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

BC-school-stubs oversized

Category:British Columbia school stubs is spilling onto five pages. Would people prefer to split these up by regional districts, or into elementary and high schools? Alai 21:25, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I think splitting by elementary and high schools would not give much improvement, as there are about three to four times as many elementary schools as high schools. Regional districts (RD) might be hard because many schools, school districts or communities are not (yet) categorized by RD. A possible strategy might be to just split out GVRD (over half of B.C.'s population) for now. --Usgnus 21:32, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

ontario school boards english

i will take the ontario english school boards as my own intiative of Wikipedia if you would like. --Steven Solarz 04:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a big task -- could use some help! Take a look at WP:EiC#Cleanup needed which has this to say on the Ontario school boards:

• most boards listed at Category:School districts in Ontario, 2006-07-19, need to make the rounds through these articles, as most are stubs with just an address and phone number

Welcome aboard. See other Ontario examples such as TDSB and Peel District School Board which were recently re-done. --Stéphane Charette 22:25, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Everyone, also please note that there are several boards for which articles haven't been established - see List of Ontario school boards. PKT 02:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm jumping in on the WRDSB (Waterloo Region Public) schools in KW - see that talk page for more info (I'd love help from people in town). Eric kennedy 20:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

POV problems at CSDCSO (an Ontario school district)

Not asking anyone to jump into the discussion, but just letting everyone know a new editor (GST2006) has adopted the CSDCSO school district article as the appropriate place to sound off on generic problems s/he associates with French-language education in the province of Ontario. Attempts to reason with him/her have led nowhere. Someone has now requested arbritation assistance. --Stéphane Charette 16:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

BMLSS

Hope you all don't mind if I add my highschool =D John Jacques 27 September 2006

No problem. Just don't add it as BMLSS! Take a look at the naming conventions over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Education in Canada#Names of schools. Another good place to start for high school articles is {{Infobox Education in Canada}}, of which there are many examples. Let us know if you want assistance. --Stéphane Charette 01:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Father Michael McGivney Catholic Academy

There are a few persistent editors who continue to add non-notable individuals to the list of alumni for this school. Can a few of you add this article to your watchlist and revert dubious edits to the alumni section. Thanks. Mindmatrix 15:31, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Done PKT 15:50, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Enrollment data

I added enrollment data at John G. Diefenbaker Elementary School but it failed to appear in the infobox. I tried to trace it through but it's damn near impossible to make it work. Can somebody start to simplify that so that it doesn't take a fucking Ph.D. in computer science to add information. Eclecticology 08:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

→ You simply weren't using valid fields for the Template:Infobox Education in Canada. You can also only have one enrollment value if you use this field. The structure is:

|enrollment=    Number or Number (Year) or Number ([[Month Day]] [[Year]])
|enrollment_as_of= [[Year]] or [[Month Day]] [[Year]]

I have fixed the page for you with the most recent (2005) enrollment in the proper form. - Mmn100 16:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

That's not very helpful if one has to sacrifice information for the sake of form. It looks as though information of this sort would be better moved to the normal text section. Eclecticology 06:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Central Elgin Collegiate Institute page

the page for the central elgin colegic institute is biased as it states the school is for more accedemicly minded students withought back up. as a student that lives and goes to school in this area it is evident to me thhat there is no distiction between schools and that accademic levels or atleast intelligence of the students all appears too be the same. also a fun fact, they call themselves the titans (greek)but their mascot is obviously a roman centurian

Agreed, the article needs work. I'll take a look. PKT 13:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Professor

• I have created a preliminary infobox for professors. Since I'm more familiar with this project than with the parent Wikipedia:WikiProject Education, I figured I'd get feedback here first. The bare template with usage instructions can be found for now at User:Chabuk/Sandbox, and a filled out example can be seen at User:Chabuk/Sandbox2. Please let me know what you think, what improvements can be made, if there are any fields that I've left out, etc, etc. Thanks! -- Chabuk 19:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

• Since no one seems to have any comments, I'll assume we're okay with it and I'll add it to the main project page tomorrow. -- Chabuk 04:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

List of high schools in Windsor

Hello team - I've found the referenced list, which appears to be an orphan, and the content of which should logically be a subcategory of Category:High schools in Ontario. It should also have a title that refers to Essex County as well as just Windsor. What is the best way to handle changing the list to a subcategory? Is there a more elegant option than opening the subcategory and deleting the list? PKT 18:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I guess that's the only alternative. The WPEIC-cat tag says I should propose a new subcategory here, so: Can I get some input about how to categorize this - is "High schools in Windsor and Essex County" an appropriate moniker? PKT 02:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

changes have been made PKT 18:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Missing High Schools in York Region

There are some high schools that I feel should be present on this list, yet are absent. Notable schools that failed to make the list are Brother Andre Catholic High School and Markville High School (specifically focusing on Markham). I feel that these schools should at least have some mention in some capacity, if for nothing else than their academic merit as being some of the best schools in Ontario.

Connected Markville Secondary, will need to set up articles for other schools. PKT 20:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I've now started the article for Brother André Catholic High School PKT 02:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Applewood Family article: Rename?

Hi there. While looking through Category:Orphaned_articles_from_July_2006, I came across this article about a Canadian school...or district...or something like that. I'm thinking it needs a new name, but you might have a better idea of what it might be. Joyous! | Talk 23:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

There were discussions about the Peel Board "families" of schools, and it seems to have been agreed that those articles should be 'undone'. I would suggest tagging the article for deletion. PKT 02:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Do we need articles for defunct school boards?

Team, I just tripped over North York Board of Education, which hasn't existed for about 7 years or so. I also know there have been Boards and School Districts amalgamated in Saskatchewan and elsewhere in the country.

I do not see any need to keep an article regarding a School Board (or similar) that doesn't exist, other than perhaps for the first couple of years after such a Board is dissolved. Any opinions? PKT 16:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

It could quite easily be merged into the replacement school board with redirects, a la School District 91 Nechako Lakes. -- TheMightyQuill 17:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Hold on, I'm busy putting Christopher Columbus up for deletion.  :)

In all seriousness, I think we need to have such articles. That way when someone runs across a reference to North York Board of Education and they say to themselves "I don't remember hearing about this...", they can come to Wikipedia to look it up and quickly get a summary of which school board it was merged into, when, etc... Nothing wrong with having articles on things that used to exist. --Stéphane Charette 17:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, but wouldn't proper redirects to a merged article fulfill that need? Rather than having a permanent stub article? I mean, if there's a big full article about a defunct school board, that's something else, but I assume most of these are 10 lines or less. - TheMightyQuill 18:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Like any other stub, let it grow. If it was indeed a microstub, then perhaps I'd be tempted to merge it, but why not leave the stub? Let someone add the old school board logo, more info on the last few years of operation, or maybe from where/when it began. Personally, when I want to look up a specific topic (usually because co-workers and I are discussing some old topic and we're uncertain of the details) I'd rather find a short article on the topic I researched than end up redirected to some other article and be forced to read through to find where my specific topic is mentionned. --Stéphane Charette 23:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Stéphane that we should not delete or redirect the article since it provides historical information about the board. -Mmn100 00:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool.........thanks! PKT 14:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Should the infobox have fields for telephone numbers

User:pschemp has brought up the fact that our school infobox shouldn't have fields for phone numbers since Wikipedia is not a telephone directory. While I know about WP:NOT and understand we don't want Wikipedia to turn into a white pages or yellow pages, I didn't know if this actually prevents us from even reporting a phone number. Anyone else have opinions on the matter? --Stéphane Charette 18:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

See discussion on ANI here. Including telephone numbers fails #3 of WP:NOT (not a directory) as stated here "For example, an article on a radio station generally should not list upcoming events, current promotions, phone numbers, schedules etc" An article on a school is no different, and there exists a huge potential for abuse of these numbers. Anyone can find numbers from wedbsites or telephone books, but they don't contribute to the encyclopedia in any way. Additionally, there is precedence for not having them from other wikiprojects. Thanks. pschemp | talk 00:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

From the administrator's noticeboard discussion linked to above by pschemp, looks like we should also be discussing the address fields and e-mail fields in addition to the phone numbers. Anyone else have a comment to make?

At the moment, it looks as if we'll need to re-work the template to not display the phone numbers, e-mail address, and street address. (Which will also result in the removal of the postal code field.) I'm certain we can easily argue that at a minimum we can retain the city and province. Personally, especially when it comes to cities with many schools, I think the street address is still important to distinguish exactly where a school is located. Saying a school is in "Toronto" or "Vancouver" doesn't give much information. --Stéphane Charette 01:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

...this will also affect {{Infobox Education in the United States}} as that template is based on our Canadian one. --Stéphane Charette 01:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I can do without phone and fax numbers, but I think street addresses are vital to information for schools. PKT 03:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Part of the reason for not including such details as telephone numbers is that they are ephemeral, and therefore make the articles more difficult to maintain: this is unlikely to prove the case with street addresses. Furthermore, a change in physical location would actually be a notable event for a school, and should therefore be recorded in the article: changing the telephone number is hardly so significant. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 11:34, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Phone numbers, street addresses, lists of teachers, and the like are all usually publicly available, and even verifiable. But not everything that can be verified is actually encyclopedic, per WP:NOT. I see no reason to include phone numbers or lists of current teachers, administrators, etc. (As another example, mention of an administrator because they've done something encyclopedic (c.f. Marva Collins) would be different, but we do not need every one). Oppose inclusion of phone numbers, support removal from the infobox. ++Lar: t/c 13:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the phone, fax, and e-mail fields from the infobox. --Stéphane Charette 03:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

This seems to have just today affected {{Infobox Education in the United States}}, which I have used for several schools and school districts in California. Yesterday I saw either an "Address" or "Location" label with the data I had entered below, today it is gone. I think that this is a change for the worse and would urge that it be reversed. Providing the street addess in a 30K article about a high school does not make WP a directory. It provides useful information to many readers in a succinct and obvious manner. Having the fields in the infobox template also encourages editors to enter the data there in a standard format. Without the fields in the infobox, the same information is going to be entered into the text of the articles in varying sections, including the lead paragraph. One other point--I've been using the street addresses to find the geo-coordinates so I could add the geohack templates to schools. This is a big plus, I think, and is clearly sanctioned for localities. See Tamalpais High School, Bolinas-Stinson Union School District, and Sausalito Marin City School District for examples. The Sausalito Marin City District provides another reason to keep street addesses--the existing Bayside and MLK,Jr. campuses have each had two to four different names since the first school buildings were built on their sites. The MLK, Jr. name has been used at both sites in different decades. I've been working on that article for quite a few hours and I'm having some trouble being sure that I've linked the correct former school names with the current names, which is why I haven't posted them. I may acctually have to use an old phone directory in a local library to tie former school names to a real physical address.--Hjal 07:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Street addresses still appear in Canadian schools using 'Infobox Education in Canada'. As I wrote on Nov.24/06, I don't feel a need to provide phone and fax numbers, but I totally agree that street addresses are important for articles about schools. PKT 15:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Wilfrid Laurier University alumni

I have created Category:Wilfrid Laurier University alumni because I wrote an article about a bank executive who had graduated from Wilfrid Laurier University. Many other notable people have graduated from Wilfrid Laurier University. If you are editing an article about an alumnus of Wilfrid Laurier University, please add the article to this new category. --Eastmain 03:40, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Mississauga Christian Academy

There is no article on Mississauga Christian Academy, and in light of the way that such articles often get nominated for deletion, I am reluctant to create one. However, the school is in the news, with sex charges being laid against a teacher there. See http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/December2006/01/c2973.html if you wish to create an article. The school's web site is http://www.mississaugachristianacademy.com/ --Eastmain 22:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Warning about schools

Thivierr, I've removed your warning as efforts are underway -- and have been for some time -- at WP:SCHOOL to try and make this process easier on everyone. --Stéphane Charette 19:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

• I'm not clear on your reasoning. Of course, we might get a consensus guideline. But nobody can predict if/when that will be, or what the final guideline will be. Hence, nobody knows which school articles will be kept and which will not. I welcome rewording. But if you wish to entirely remove my edit, I request you tell me it was wrong, and why it was wrong. It's important for school editors (old and new) to understand how much has changed around Wikipedia. For about a year, not a single verifiable, real, K-12 school was deleted. But lately, numerous ones have been speedied, or AFD'd. Also, the entire proces of AFD has radically changed. Previously, a consensus of the community was required, and admins had to weight all good faith partipants equally. Now, a closing admin may disregard those with "weak" arguements (which is basically anybody they disagree with). And of course, speedies which used to be overturned, aren't anymore, usually. We can change the wording whenever there is a consensus guideline in place. But even then, its what admins choose to do which counts. WP:SNOW and WP:IAR are the primary guideline/policies for some admins doing deletion. If an admin can ignore the existing rules, and speedy delete out-of-process schools, I doubt WP:SCHOOL would change anything for the better. At the end of the day, the 0.1% of Wikipedians with a "delete button" will decide what stays and what doesn't. --Rob 01:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 23:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Rideau Park School

There are at least two schools in Alberta of this name, one in Edmonton as the article mentions, and another being in Calgary (see the CBoE website) which the article doesn't mention. I didn't do anything about it since i'm not a member of this project. Thanks! -Mark