Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps/Archive 2009

Archive 2005

←

Archive 2007

Archive 2008

Archive 2009

Need helps + need an admin

Extended content

Hello, can we work to clean up this old Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps page ?! I started to check the links of one section, and mainy are totally out dated, with old png sources, or inactive subpage (since 2006 or 2004 O.o) I changed the sections structure of the page, many sentences were in fact duplicata and are now merged, further clean ups still need. I noticed pages to delete by adding at their right : (death page to delete), or (death Redirect page to delete) ("{{red|page to delete}} / {{blue|?}} / {{green|link to keep}} "). Many sentences are outdated, the same for many links, who still lead to 2004-2006 pages, with by example old png sources. Can somes gives an hand and continue to clean up further. Please : Choice one section ; check if the links are still helpful as of 2008 ; copyedit and merge duplicate sentences. Yug (talk) 15:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Umh... it seems that I will have to manage this clean up alone. õ____O.... Let's roll ! Yug (talk) 05:19, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Feedback on the relative usefulness of these maps

For a while now, the "headline" Portuguese Empire map has been File:Portugal Império total.png. This is an unlabelled map of what might be described as "everything that could ever have been described as being Portuguese or vaguely Portuguese at one time or another". As someone who is familiar with Portuguese colonial history, I can say that some of these claims are a little tenuous to say the least, but more to the point it is completely unlabelled and therefore - I submit - useless for a reader that wants to cross-reference places mentioned in the article.

So, I recently created a new map (in the style of File:The British Empire.png) - File:The Portuguese Empire.png, which is not so ambitious in its scope: it shows the principal Portuguese bases around the world, labels them, and provides dates of discovery/occupation/independence where appropriate.

I would appreciate feedback from the mapsters here as to which a casual reader of the article would find most useful. Thanks. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 03:17, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

My 2 cents: the new map is nice for detail, but the small features would be hard to read in a headline map. The text will also be hard to read, but I suppose the interested reader can alwasys click on the map for a larger version; that seems to work fine in the British Empire map. The older version has the advantage of being very visible. What if you made the boxes around small colonies larger or thicker? --Amble (talk) 19:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, I'll try making the border thicker. But which do you think is more useful for the reader? The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick ^t 01:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

You pointed out that the old map is over-liberal in what it includes, so a more accurate map is definitely more useful. Yours also contains more information for a user who clicks through to see the larger image. The only real advantage to the old map is that it's very visible in small format. --Amble (talk) 01:33, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I must agree with Amble. Your map, while containing much useful information and perhaps being more accurate, is not all that useful in an infobox. For my money, infobox maps should usually be "locator maps", i.e. textless maps supplying an overview of the territory in question.

I believe there are 3 broad categorize of made-for-Wikipedia maps:

• Locator maps (also useful for non-English Wikipedias).
• Integrated maps, maps intended to be read alongside the text, highlighting important places mentioned in the article.
• Detailed maps, which are nearly useless in the context of an article. That is, one has to click on and enlarge the map to effectively use it.

Each of these maps has its own strengths, but the detailed map is not useful as a "headliner" or within an infobox.

My 2¢, MapMaster (talk) 05:46, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

My comments left on Talk:Portuguese Empire‎.Kmusser (talk) 14:50, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

On going clean up (1) : Project page

Hello,

I started a clean up 20 days ago. I plan to continue to provide a more friendly and clear page. Accordingly, the page may be a mess for one hour each time I will work on it. Sorry for the disturbances.

Indeed, the current structure and page are based on 2004-2005 edits (creation of the project). This made several points misleading, and I plan to make harsh cut in them. Especially :

• switch from a PNG based project to a SVG based project (links, galeries)
• delete many links to not-useful old pages and links to sub-sub-sub category
• delete many useless or confusing sentences
• create a Map lab subpage
• continue to pick up conventions well established on other wikis (especially de & fr)

I will do my best, this will then to be continously improve.

Cheers, Yug (talk) 12:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

It's worse that what I was thinking. The section that I just cleaned up was stating "As of 2005 (!!!!!!!), wikipedia cannot displait SVG files [by converting them into PNG]". My GOD ! This was true, yes... but in 2005 !!! >o< Yug (talk) 14:29, 22 January 2009 (UTC) [note: SVG was integrated to wikimedia about summer 2005 if I remember well]

Scope section:  Done, cleaned up.

Colours table:  Done, improve the look.

Map Lab :  Done, a request page and cross-teaching school page, create and ready to be use. Please check it before official start and following announcements. Spelling check welcome for Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Map Advice & Wikipedia talk:Graphic Lab/Map workshop/top (I'm French >o<)

I will continue later. Thanks to be patient. Yug (talk) 12:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Related WikiProjects section:  Done, confusing section, move to the top of the talk page.

Finding help section:  Done, useless or already display links or redirects, deleted or moved to Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Map Advice. Will be soon recreate to notice tutorials, technical advices, etc.

To do next: creation of /Conventions, and /Help.

I stop here for today. Clean up all this overlaping links/pages/sentences is confusing and not easy. But that will be done ! Yug (talk) 05:17, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Create /Conventions:  Done, as well as 3 sub-pages. To continue. Yug (talk) 08:14, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

/Conventions :  Done, 4 sub-pages create :].

I will soon be to the limit of what I can do alone on the convention side (picking up already use conventions). Yug (talk) 13:58, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Intro section :  Done, cleaned up.

Stop here, answer to Seav later. bye Yug (talk) 07:35, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I know it was sort of abandoned, but don't you think we should try to revive the Commons Map Making project so that the map making effort will be centralized across the Wikimedia projects? Everything here in the English Wikipedia should redirect there. The French and German projects should also centralize discussions there. --seav (talk) 04:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Extended content

The Commons Map Making project have been torpedo by the few reactions of English graphists. I think the opposition is not solvable. Frenchs, AND Germans, and polishs, russians, and netherlanders have express preference toward soft colors (softgrey/softyellow/softblue). The French and German position is based on 3 years long talks, and a deep analysis of the web/screen/wiki needs. In this, the opposition to book based (!), CIA (!!!!) based colours, and the will to create a specific Wiki-based convention make for many the CIA style unacceptable.I'm one of those who think so. EN: On the other side, the English users, the strongest community, have express their attachment to book based, and CIA based pink/orange/red colours. The both side are of equal strength. -> We are lock, nobody want to move. IMO: But take slowly a look on the Commons Map Making project contributions, look at the lengh, and the points noticed by each contributor, and you will see how big is the difference of implication and of analyse between De-Fr graphists and En graphists. So I don't want start again a such talk, where so much energy and complex analysis encouraging global conventions are shoot down by some oppositions and the CIA colours tradition. But CIA colours conventions have not been create for wikipedia usage.

/!\ Previous comment hide. Since it may be false and due to a misunderstanding. Yug (talk) 10:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Accordingly, I take down my former hope of a globally think set of conventions. I plan to make a de facto compromise proposal as a "Potsdam Agreement", following the current de facto 'line of control' in maps activity. I hope that will work, otherwise we will have an unneed heavy time-consuming map creation/correction war, and the full victory of one team on the other in ~3-4 years -___- Really a miserable way to walk, especially bad for generous map makers. Yug (talk) 07:59, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Torpedoed? I reviewed the discussion at Commons again and I did not see any impasse or intractable discussion. The pink/orange/red is definitely not CIA-based. The pink/orange/red colors are for creating locator maps and the CIA maps are just simple geo-political maps: two different types of maps! --seav (talk) 09:49, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait. You means that on commons English graphist were not oppose to grey/yellow/softorange style, didn't opposed to the replacement of CIA maps by a new style, and just wanted to keep locator maps as pink/orange/red ?

[-___- if so, yes, nothing intractable, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, and I will paid this by Harakiring myself.]

Yug (talk) 10:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Now I'm a bit confused. I thought the French graphists prefer following the CIA colors. I personally think that we should replace the CIA WFB maps with maps customized for Wikimedia. We've been using CIA maps almost since the beginning of Wikipedia's existence simply because they are public domain and are readily available. Now that there are many people willing to create maps, we should create our own style.

I also suggest to divide the discussion for different map types. I think people are confusing the colors across various map types. Locator maps should have bolder and more saturated colors so that the reader can easily find the location of the place. Maps having lots of labels would benefit from more lighter and unsaturated colors so that the background doesn't clash with the labels. --seav (talk) 11:17, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait 5 mins, I need to finish my harakiri...

...[Yug death by harakiri]

...

[Yug resurrection and come back]

Sting and the French graphists have formerly accepted the grey/yellow German style.

Then, we made a step toward English colours by adding a softorange, in part to satisfy a technical need, in part to satisfy English taste for more saturate colors (see ). -____-

Now, if I understand well, I see that you [English users] are to aware that CIA maps have not made for wiki. And the some map needs you state are EXACTLY what French and German are requesting.

Did I watched only on the obstacles and then misundertood your [English users] meanings on commons ?

Sh*t !!! Damn !!! RRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-____- that's ok, I'm just understanding that I made an ENORMOUS misunderstanding, I will be fine tomorrow to think what to do next. [I'm pretty confuse and wiki-tired. I need a break.] See you, all my apologizes. Yug (talk) 11:39, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Map Legends Embedded in Image

[UGH! I'm fairly new to contributing and don't know the right place to post this -- any advice/help would be most appreciated.]

I look at lots of maps and I find one problem again and again, maps use either symbols or colors but don't include a legend or key in the image. Some are included as captions underneath a thumbnail in and article, some are included on an image's File: page, and some don't exist.

It's my take that while not necessary in thumbnails, all maps should include a legend/key if anything is not readily understandable when just looking at that file by itself. Simply put, if the images are going to have value outside of the article context, then an explanation is necessary so that an image viewer can understand what the map is trying to communicate.

Where is the best place for this discussion to be had?

Xianjiro (talk) 10:33, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree (who would not?), if the map is not readily understandable, there should be a legend/key either on the map itself or in the image description. The same holds for other graphics as well, so it is not a map-specific problem in my opinion.bamse (talk) 11:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Include labels and a legend are need for complex maps (Areas maps, Topo maps, historical maps). But most maps are simple maps, with just somes meaningful areas. Such maps don't need legend.

But thanks for the notification, I now plan to add a notice such No legend need on the map // Please include a legend on the map in the respective convention pages.

Good idea :] Yug (talk) 04:17, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Advertising (Map lab)

I noticed, there is an increasing number of map requests at the Image workshop even though at the top of that page it states that map requests should be send to the Map workshop. Does the Map project need more advertising? bamse (talk) 11:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

YES ! The Map Lab have been create just 2 days ago. After my 2 day-rush, I'm currently wiki-tired + and true-life-busy, which don't allow me to advertising about it. But, for sure ! Everybody's help is welcome to make the place alive ! Yug (talk) 11:21, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

It was more meant as a long term proposal, so no need to rush. Sorry if I was too pushy. Thanks for all the great work you have done already. Probably soon the glory of the Map workshop will be known allover wikipedia. bamse (talk) 11:40, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

"The glory of the Map workshop will be known allover wikipedia" O.O ! Oh my God ! will I have a Crown ?! and be allow to raise taxes to stole poor citizen !? ^0^y Yug (talk) 11:49, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

More seriously, yes, we will soon have to advertising for the Map Lab, and to pick up map request in the archive or category:requested maps to make the place alive. As all project, the first months are really important. Yug (talk) 12:51, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

On going clean up (2) : Map Conventions

Subject: Notice and explain split of previous colour conventions table to respect new convention scheme, ease understanding, clarity, and expansion.

Hello,

As you may have noticed, I made a large work to clean up the project page (to continue), and to collect existing de facto map conventions.

Acceptable conventions are, more or less, to the number of 7. Some apply to background & borders (mainly: Location & Topo), some apply to upper areas layers (Locator, Complex-Areas maps, Historical, Exchange) to draw up on a chosen background. So I followed this division of labour to create respective convention pages. Each convention page should apply to a specific field, and not overlap an other page's conventions.

The former global table colours being a large addition of borders, background, locator, and area conventions [summary table]. This locked me for some days, as I seen that the only solution to continue was to split this table. These days encouraged me to move on. Accordingly, I will split the table into 2 parts : border-background colours ; locator+areas colours (locator being a specific area). Indeed, now that we have more field specific convention pages, aiming to clearly state the division of labour, easing explanation and analysis, and letting users make mixes. That's just a talble split, and I managed as much as possible to keep it nice to look at. This split make the last switch to the new scheme, and will ease further seriously need expansions, especially for Locator maps and Areas maps (specific colours for animals, plants, etc.). To be continued. Yug (talk) 05:34, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

---

Ongoing clean up (continue) :

• Global colours table trouble :  Done, splitted ;
• /Conventions/Locator_maps_(blank) :  Done, and explain ;
• /Conventions/Areas_maps :  Done (split), further expansions need.
• /Conventions/Historical_maps : stub available.
• File:Maps_template-fr.svg :  Done, updated. Translation from fr into Map_template-en.svg welcome.

I'll have a shot at this one.bamse (talk) 16:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

File:Maps template-en.svg :  Done ! Please check. The 'F2' in the Legend box refers to a specific program (inkscape?)? bamse (talk) 17:57, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

O.O !! that fast ! Wuawe ! ! Thanks so much ! ^0^ That will provide the English speakers a powerful tool box !

In inkscape, [F2] switch to the node-pencil.

...umh, I checked the file : all seems pretty good ! Big thanks Bamse :] We move fast ^0^y See you, my [empty -_-] bed wait me ! arf!~ Yug (talk) 18:41, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

• File:Maps_template-history_patch-en.svg : ready in some dozen of minutes :] , UPLOADED !!!!!!! Muahaha !!!

Yug (talk) 14:47, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm tired to death. Manage all this web of conventions, and spend the 4 last days on my PC have burn my brain, my body is pretty like a oyster. I need to go out for some few days. You may help : a todo list is on the top of the page. Please help my brain: relay me !!! Yug (talk) 16:28, 27 January 2009 (UTC) ^0^y

Section "Tools, templates, and sources" :  Done, move to Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Resources/Maps !

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Maps:  Done, the previous move have clean up the page which is now clean . The page will get minor expansions, to summarize /Resources/Maps and talk a bit about {{Location map}} tool, but it's now close to its final shape...

...major cuts and moves:  Done, all have been done.

...project restructuration:  Done, the new structure is now clearly available.

...new structure subpages:  Done, all subpages possible to create do have been create.

All major change have been done. Just stay some minor task where you can help now, see on the Todo frame on the top of this talk page. Clean up & Update SUCCESSFUL ! ^0^y Yug (talk) 07:22, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Stubs

Hi all - hope you don't mind, but I added a list of the three most relevant stub types to WP:MAPS on your project page. I noticed the page when someone incorrectly listed it as a stub (only articles can ever be stubs; WikiProject pages can't be). Grutness...wha? 00:00, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Euh - skip that. I misunderstood the aims of the project - I'd assumed it was for working on articles about maps and cartographers. Never mind - keep up the good work anyway :) Grutness...wha? 00:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Video tutorials: comments please !

Hello, I created this video tutoriel using Recordmydesktop. Please review ! Do you think this way to create tutorials is interesting ? Do you think this one is too long ?

Vidéo tutorial: How to draw SVG roads.

The file is huge (70Mo), and should be watch in full screen. Yug (talk) 03:28, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I eventually think that it is too long, since explaning : Conventions (where, what) ; Topo-roads maps (how that work, layer on layer) ; My source ; How to draw Freeways ; How to draw Railroads ; Grouping and naming for a better code. I now think short & specific tutorial videos should be better to create and share. Some advices ? Yug (talk) 04:10, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I haven't even gotten it to play yet - but I'll start off with definitely smaller tutorials would be better, and a less obscure file format, if it's difficult to watch no one will bother - more after I get it to open. Kmusser (talk) 17:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

On wiki-fr, 4 graphists had no trouble to get my 1st video tutorials playing (about animations, and just ~2-3mins). What do you use : Windows xx + Firefox xx ? Yug (talk) 18:03, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

It may just be the length that's giving mine troubles then (Vista and Firefox 3 for reference). Kmusser (talk) 18:16, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Vista and Firefox 3 !? So...yes, that's probably the lenght. I also had trouble to play this long one directly on the wikipage. I guess I will have to cut it in several parts [re-record it O.o, argh !] But let's continue this exploration ^0^y Yug (talk) 19:01, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

You might want to make a non-video version. Like a separate page with a set of images. vıdıoman 22:57, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I also have think to a such page : I share file:GL Map tuto-exchange maps-roads example.svg if you want work on it too. Some few screenshot may say enough to understand :] Yug (talk) 06:56, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Next steps

Hello, next steps interesting to lead :

• Map Lab: Support and officially open the Map Lab, that's means 1. adversing in several visible places ; 2. receipt and if need correct requests coming ; 3. make pretty maps. Note: if you can contribute to the points 2 and 3, than launch the adversing campaign.
• Conventions: Two experimented map makers encouraged me to move the conventions to commons. I personnally think they are right, and I should have create them there, on commons, since: a.these conventions continue a Commons based project ; b. would be useful form all wikipedians and wikis. Accordingly, I plan to make a move soon. Links will smoothly redirect to commons.

In short, can you [yes YOU] support the official opening of the Map Lab ?? (receipt requests, correct them) Yug (talk) 14:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I just made one edit in this direction (template use in ~20 pages). This will bring to the Map Lab map makers and requests. The first days will probably be pretty confuse, since no many users will 'receipt' the requests and correct incorrect ones. But, that's wiki, people will notice trouble and slowly join the project to smooth the work~.

I really have to stop my contributions now, I have to fill some inscriptions (Taiwan universities [Master], scholarship candidacies)~ Important ones ! All my encouragements Yug (talk) 14:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

BIGGER MOVE: this template being used by ~1.000 user page. This should give a big boost to the Map Lab visibility. Yug (talk) 10:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

World map w/ UK separated

I was looking at various images regarding international football, and I discovered that while some of the images used (such as File:World Map FIFA.svg and File:Qualifying countries of 2002 FIFA World Cup.svg were in SVG format, neither of them respected the Home Nations' borders as they should. While the PNG images that exist do the same, as they are based on File:BlankMap-World-UK.png, which does should the borders correctly. Is there any effort to create an SVG version of this image, or modify the existing SVG world map to show the borders? I started trying to do it myself, but I felt like I was taking a hacksaw to it when it required much more precision than I could offer. Also, am I even asking this in the right place? iTocapa ^iChat 21:45, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably best to post a request on Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Map workshop‎. FIFA would be the right motivation for such a map. Similar requests have been denied before since there is nothing intrinsically different about the UK subdivisions and the subdivisions of many other countries and including all would be infeasible. But a specific FIFA map (I take it only the UK enters with more then one country) should be ok. /Lokal_Profil 19:32, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

which world map is recommended?

HElp, I'm overloaded with world maps! I was looking for a quick - current recommended base-map is xxxx, but in wiki-commons, wikipedia categories and relevent pages couldn't find a direct answer, as far as I can see it is File:BlankMap-World6.svg, but this has tags that it doesn't validate on w3's svg validator and a tag to be updated / synchronised with the source map at cia world book. Is this the current choice of preference, and maybe you could add a section to your project page to aid any future editors trying to find the same info as myself, many thanks, L∴V 13:10, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

You can ignore both those tags. The SVG validator has some problems with the fact that it doesn't validate metadata even when it's formatted according to the specifications. And the update as far as I know wasn't really relevant. The map should be fine to use. Alternatively you might want to use File:BlankMap-World6, compact.svg which is based on the same but excludes Antarctica and has less white space around it. /Lokal_Profil 23:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Damn... That's true, the map conventions don't notice this issue... A fix will be need, since yes, the advice that Lokal provided to you are commonly follow :] Yug (talk) 06:15, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that, just like to note that in my search, cropped up Gunn Map 2, which looks to be an excellent tool with a lot of work gone into it - although you can't upload data anymore ( or export picture as svg), I tried copy and pasting some cia worldbook dat into it's data window which seemed to work ok, it seems a shame that it hasn't been adopted more (images produced are gfdl compatible ), thanks again L∴V 11:28, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Another available and useful tool is here. /Lokal_Profil 00:16, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Question on Map Creation

I'm new to the whole cartography thing, so I thought I might look at the requested maps page to see if there was anything easy enough that I could try. I saw the request for the Eleanor Cross map and decided on that. I found a Wikipedia blank map of the UK, opened up Inkscape, realized I wasn't sure of where to start. I opened up a new layer, used the circle drawing tool to make circles. Then I realized I didn't even know how to put the circles in the right spaces. I pulled up Google Earth, and estimated the position of each location. Here's the map: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eleanor_Cross_Map.svg (don't worry, I'll delete it when I get a response.) What would the proper way of going about making a map like this be? Thanks. AllenStibble (talk) 12:45, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The file you uplaoded have several bugs. To fix them :

• Embeded image: the png or jpg image you dropped in your SVG file have to be "embeded". To do so : In Inkscape > Effects (Alt+C) >> Images >>> Embeded all images.
• The famous "Black rectangle square" bug.

Afterwhat, yeap, you have to place the cities approximatively to the correct place. Maps are a simplified representation of the reality, and so, necessarily inexact.

PS: you are new, but you are right on an important point: come here to find map advices ! Yug (talk) 16:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! So if I fix that problem, should I just go ahead and tag it onto the Eleanor Cross page?AllenStibble (talk) 22:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, if your file work (display result readable), you can then add the [[File:Eleanor_Cross_Map.svg|200px|right|thumb|your comment.]] to the article page. Yug (talk) 08:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh... I see that the embeded function don t work for you. I now remember: some stuffs have to be install to allow this to work. Are you using Windows, or Linux ?

SVG Help Forums: Wikipedia:SVG_Help French SVG help FAQ: Black square trouble. --Yug (talk) 08:16, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Arial like font

Hi, I'm editing an svg file using the arial font. I'd like to replace one supported by the commons svg engine to be able to control the final look better in inskcape. Which font resembles arial the most? Not only looks but also size because a lot of the supported fonts look stretched horizontally. Thanks, Richardprins (talk) 19:18, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I replied to this at the map lab. vıdıoman 20:41, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8898 ¦ Reisio (talk) 01:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Color conventions for bodies of water

Why are the recommended colors for bodies of water in location maps and locator maps so different? We should either choose one set for both types of maps or pick a compromise between the two. Personally, I think a compromise would be best. The colors recommended for bodies of water in location maps are far too light and cyan. And the colors recommended for locator maps are a little too dark and blue, IMO. Either way, we shouldn't have competing standards. We should pick one set of colors for bodies of water and stick to it. Kaldari (talk) 21:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Bodies of water in location maps and locator maps are so different for a simple reason : one style come from the English Wikipedia, which support more saturate colors, the other come from the French wikipedia, which prefer soft colors, claimed to be more 'screen friendly'. French team have already darkened a little its former very-soft blue. But since both styles are widely used, we were unable to get a global and final consensus. Yug (talk) 23:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Convention for election results maps?

You guys have lots of very lovely work. But there seems to be a gap in your conventions in regards to election results maps. Numerous styles of maps have been made in the absence of such a convention. Here's a sample of the variety:

Extended content
Referendums General elections File:Germany election districts 2009.svg

Perhaps a discussion on creating a set of conventions is in order? — Athelwulf ^[T]/_[C] 09:01, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

You are right, I wonder why we never produced such conventions ? An analisis and a proposal is need. Follow by open talks to improve it ;). Yug (talk) 13:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Are there enough articles on this subject to justify an Outline of maps?

Extended content
Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting. The Transhumanist 23:18, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

• Encourage to produce 'Outline pages' for specific projects and topics. This being, indeed, a really helpful practice. Ex: Outline of Palestine. Yug (talk) 13:21, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyright question

Please see the comments below which I copy-pasted from the Help desk and respond here:

I would like to recreate a map from a copyrighted volume, using QGIS and my own time. The page in question is http://www.geo.umass.edu/faculty/wilkie/Wilkie/hist_mass_p4.jpg from the site http://www.geo.umass.edu/faculty/wilkie/. I have checked the FAQs but I think I need an answer about this directly, because "facts cannot be copyrighted" according to the FAQ but it may be stretching the concept in this case. I would use my own time, recreating the map from scratch and using my own colors. The dates would probably have to stay the same, but that information is freely available. Is this OK? Sswonk (talk) 16:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

A copy of a copyrighted image is still copyrighted. Changing colours etc would not prevent it from being a copy. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 16:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I'm not 100% positive, but I believe this OK. Skimming though Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps, the creation of free maps is encouraged, since it's your own work. You may want to ask on the project's talk page for more details, however. TNXMan 16:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Tnxman that they would be the people to ask - just put the question at their talk page - the book from which the picture was taken was published in 1991, so well within copyright. Perhaps you could contact Prof Wilkie and ask for permission to use it? Refer him to Donating copyrighted materials which gives details about how to release it with a suitable license. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 16:21, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I am copying these comments to the WP:MAPS talk page. I will probably also contact Prof Wilkie to give him a heads up, and definitely credit him as the source of the data in Commons, once it is figured out at WP:MAPS. Thank you for the responses. Sswonk (talk) 16:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks – Sswonk (talk) 16:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

In case you need it there is a PD source for current township boundaries at http://www.census.gov/geo/www/cob/nect2003.html. Since most of the historical towns are groupings of modern day towns you may be able to use that as the map source and just use Wilkie's map as a source for the dates which would definitely put you in the clear. Kmusser (talk) 17:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

As a side note: From what I understand, the German map lab ("Kartenwerkstatt") discourages creation of maps based on just a single copyrighted source. Using several copyrighted sources to create a sufficiently different (for instance in colors, labels, icons,...) new map is ok though. bamse (talk) 17:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Good advice. Kmusser, I use the data from http://www.mass.gov/mgis/laylist.htm and QGIS, have made scores of highway maps and a few others so far, no conflicts there. Thanks, I will try to find other sources just to be sure. Although, I could send an email to Prof Wilkie asking for a release, right? What would he have to do to get it to a CC statement, since I would be redoing the map and it would be under my CC-BY-SA, or more likely just PD? Sswonk (talk) 17:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

If Wilkie gives a release you could just use his map directly and you don't need to make a map - I don't know the exact wording for the various licenses - the usual sticking point is he'd need to be ok with commercial uses of his map. If your using his map as a reference for a new map you just need to cite him like you would any other reference. Kmusser (talk) 18:17, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I want it to be an SVG, which is why I needed to answer the copyright question. I am going to send an email to Prof Wilkie with all of these thoughts summed up just to get a sense of where he stands. Sswonk (talk) 18:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Updating Prof Wilkie responded and is all set with the scenario described here, i.e. recreate the map as SVG and include a data source citation to his page on the Commons description page. To be safe I won't be using a PD license, rather CC-BY-SA. Thanks for the input. Sswonk (talk) 16:59, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Map template problem

I'm creating a range map template, to be used to create range maps for endemic Malagasy wildlife (such as lemurs), and I'm having a problem. When I upload my SVG file, the fonts (including Arial) appear to be lost. It's been a while since I played with Inkscape and the SVG format, and apparently I've overcome the problem before. I'm hoping I don't have to render the text in order for it to display properly. (The point of the template is to be editable by anyone who needs it.) Anyway, suggestions and general feedback on the template are welcome. –Visionholder (talk) 17:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh well... just had to use "Object to Path" to fix most of the problems. A few text items that I want people to edit were left as is. I just wish I could figure out how to make the "Convert to Text" option work in Inkscape. Anyway, feedback on the range map template is still welcome. –Visionholder (talk) 17:45, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I think you have to use one of the fonts at [1] for the text to render properly. Otherwise nice mapAnonimu (talk) 23:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately, I either don't have the fonts listed available in Inkscape (Times New Roman, not Times; Courier New, not Courier), or they still don't display correctly (Century Schoolbook). Any other ideas? –Visionholder (talk) 15:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Orthographic projection in South Korea

There is a dispute at Talk:South Korea#South Korea's orthographic projection over whether to use File:Locator map of South Korea.svg or File:South Korea (orthographic projection).svg, an orthographic projection. Input from someone knowledgeable in maps and WP map standards would be appreciated. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 17:34, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

No standard for country locator maps has been adopted and it's a source of regular debate over at WP:COUNTRIES. Personally I'd favor a flat projection over the orthographic, but I'd change the colors on File:Locator map of South Korea.svg to match the beige/red scheme used on [[2]]. Kmusser (talk) 18:39, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Help!

I am incredibly lost. I want to help and I'm really a great cartographer. I work in Illustrator, as has been the industry standard for 20-odd years. I also do GIS. And sure, Illustrator exports into SVG; I'm sure I'll figure out the details later on my own.

But I find so much of Wikipedia so disorganized (try to find other examples of maps easily!) and there's no logical place to ask questions of other people who help out around here.

I'd really like to help and to contribute my expertise to something that I believe in, but I need a little bit of hand holding to find my around for the first week or so. Where do I post such requests?

Thanks!

Rustbelt Maps (talk) 20:07, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm a bit of a novice myself. commons:Map_resources seems to contain some useful resources but not particularly sure on the place for mapmakers (as opposed to people requesting maps) to ask questions myself. This is in the commons not the English wikipedia but many of the mapmakers hang out in commons (apparently the French wikipedia is the most organized as far as map making)--Erp (talk) 20:15, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

A good place to start would be Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Map workshop, take a look at the requests, or maybe dig into the archives linked on that page and pick a request/subject that looks interesting and make a map. If you want to talk to other mapmakers this page right here is a good place to do so and beginning mapmakers have used it in the past to get help/comments on specific maps. Kmusser (talk) 20:36, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Or get adopted at Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User. bamse (talk) 20:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

UK postcode area maps

I'd appreciate sets of maps being created, identifying UK postcode areas, for List of postcode areas in the United Kingdom and articles in Category:Postcode areas of the United Kingdom. I'm thinking of something along the lines of maps in Berwick-upon-Tweed (UK Parliament constituency), showing a location of the area within the country, and then perhaps a larger scale map. One possible source is here, though google knows many more. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

North Shore of Chicago Map

Resolved

Please help me make a nicer looking version of this map. thanks in advance! 24.12.234.123 (talk) 05:21, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Done. MapMaster (talk) 21:55, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Strategic Wiki

Hello map makers, please, provide yours ideas to : http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_proposals#Graphics ! That's now that we need to heard you ! ;) Yug (talk) 11:03, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, please!! Is there something big that should be done to facilitate map-making, etc.? Write up a proposal! -Pete (talk) 22:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

There is also a special forum for Maps :

• http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/maps-l/

Several skilled users follow it, some programmers. It lack a true Wikimedia Foundation leader, to state clearly the foundation position, or to state "Ok, noticed". Strategic wiki seems better to submit some innovating ideas. So slow... *sick* Yug (talk) 11:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

National Atlas

I've been playing with the (U.S.) National Atlas mapmaker. I'm thinking about doing a standard legend, using the {{legend}} template, which could be used to support any number of maps created on that site. Any thoughts?

The map I made of Wheeler County, Oregon gives a basic example -- look in the "Legend" section (You can also see it in an image caption on Wheeler County, Oregon.) -Pete (talk) 22:32, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Canadian map resources re Indian Reserves, Land Claims etc.

I just received a nice reply or two from GeoNames/GeoBase Canada, whom I had alerted to an error in coordinates for a particular Indian Reserve, and with the suggestion that CGNDB include an "error reporting" area, but apparently that does exist, though in a different area of the database, namely GeoBase (which I gather is linked to CGNDB; a similar suggestion was sent to BCGNIS and the BC equivalent of federal GeoBase. This particular reply contains links I thought of use to mapmakers here; it includes access to not only shapefiles for making maps of Indian Reserve boundaries (and municipal and RD boundaries will be in there somewhere, maybe Forest Districts also; the permissions include free use but I haven't read the details of the licensing re WP:Copyright questions; an authorization for wikipedia could I'm sure be gotten if needed:

We have reviewed the Indian Reserve information we make available on GeoBase (http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/admin/alta/description.html) which includes the Alkhili IR 2 you are referring to......[...]

Please note that the GeoBase – Aboriginal Lands product is available, at no cost, in ShapeFile, KML (Attached) (Google Earth) and GML formats. The product contains the position and shape of Indian Reserves in Canada. In addition, the GeoBase – Aboriginal Lands product offers, as you suggested, a data observation page :(http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/observation.do?produit=alta) to report any issues with the data.

Best regards,

Paul Egesborg a.-g., M.Sc.

Gestionnaire – Limite et intégration cadastrale / Manager – Boundary and Cadastral ::Integration

Bureau de la région de la capitale nationale / National Capital Regional Office

Direction de l'arpenteur général / Surveyor General Branch

'Ressources naturelles Canada / Natural Resources Canada

I've removed his email address out of consideration, if someone here would like it please ask.

Most First Nations articles in British Columbia have maps migrated from German wiki showing traditional territory-claims; but not the shape/status of Indian Reserves and/or Land Claims assignments; it's only one aspect of map making for BC articles, and there's also areas like provincial parks and eventual maps of forestry regions that data is also available for....Skookum1 (talk) 21:25, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

More Cdn/BC maps

Also found this which is an index of the Land and Rsource Management Plan/Area system, and that all have good maps; there's also shape files for all of this kind of stuff available, back with more on that later; there's quite a bit of thematic mapping available through GeoMaticsBC, also from its Yukon equivalent and I'd bet from other provindes with heavy minerals sectors. The data is public/access/open license (you can't copryight a landscape, which is all the numbers are, really just a complex algorithm representing elevation and position....I've never been able to get map softwaes to work myself,, not my thing I guess, and I don't have a great eye for design, but I sure do like maps....a mini-task force for IR and provincial park and municipalities would be nice...there just aren't enough mapmakers to go around, I know, and it's a big world....g'nite...Skookum1 (talk) 04:43, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Standards for maps as featured pictures

See Wikipedia_talk:Featured_picture_candidates/Archive_25#Maps_as_Featured_Picture_Candidates

I participate from time to time on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates. From time to time, maps (including both scans of historic maps and maps created by wikipedians) get submitted for consideration as Featured Pictures. For example, here's a recent nominatin.

I would invite the map experts to suggest, over on Wikipedia talk:Featured picture candidates, appropriate standards that participants on Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates (including yourselves, hint hint) ought to consider when evaluating the candidacy of a map as a featured picture. What sorts of things should we be looking for? Spikebrennan (talk) 23:09, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a difficult question. I can start by providing some technical guidelines or necessities.

The best maps will:

• Hew closely to the semi-official colors (on the Project Page) and avoid garish colors.
• Be in SVG format.
• Provide at least one and preferrably several references.
• State the projection used (e.g. Mercator).
• Provide a scale bar and, if north is not up/top, then a directional arrow or compass rose. The scale bar may not be necessary for maps of large areas, such a world maps, continental maps, or even maps of the larger countries (e.g. Russia or Brasil).
• Lines and outlines should be smooth, without jitter.

However, many terrible maps nonetheless will meet these guidelines. Let me give some thought to what makes a great map here at English Wikipedia. More later, MapMaster (talk) 21:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind, I've copied your comment to the FPC talk page. Spikebrennan (talk) 15:03, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Great I'll post further updates there, then. I was thinking that Featured Maps will also:

• Like all Featured Pictures, have encyclopedic value.
• Have a "Wow! factor".
• Contain no chartjunk.

More updates as I think of them. MapMaster (talk) 19:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Why jurisdictional maps don't work for geographic items

In the course of finishing up the List of peaks on the British Columbia-Alberta border, I followed a lot of the resulting bluelinks, some of them I added a "(Canada)" dab too, others existed but many were written Alberta-only; I amended their text, but those that have maps have Alberta-only maps; this is inappropriate for peaks also in BC. What's needed is a pushpin-friendly terrain map of the Rockies, either Googlemap-satellite or one of the other landform series like that used on e.g. Bendor Range (which isn't pushpin-friendly, but the Googlemaps I think are...). Geographic maps should be used for geographic features; it really doesn't matter which BC regional district or Alberta improvement district they're in...it does matter where in the landscape they are....see Talk:Trapper Peak (Canada).Skookum1 (talk) 19:24, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

How to cite a USGS topo map

I'm wondering how to cite a USGS topographic map, which I found here (it's another option to Google's normal satellite/terrain maps). How do I cite this? upstateNYer 00:58, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

UK News

UK mapping data might actually be released in our lifetimes, good news for anyone that wants to work on UK maps. Check out [3] and [4] Kmusser (talk) 14:14, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Interactive maps for southern italy

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask. There was a link on Magnus's GeoHack page to somewhere in wikipedia about the interactive mapping system, but that link seems to have been removed. Anyway, the interactive maps for southern Apulia shows Santa_Maria_di_Leuca in the Iberian sea. I've fixed the co-ordernates in the page (they were pointing to about the same location). However, where does the interactive mapping system get its information from? I vaguely remember the page about it indicating that it fetches the data from a database every few days. CS Miller (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Map won't show up on Morodvis article

Resolved

I was tidying up the Morodvis article, but I cannot get the pushpin map to work.

I looked at the Ohrid and the Skopje articles, which also use Template:Location map Republic of Macedonia, and the markup appears to be correct, but no map is showing up!

Any help would be much appreciated. -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 17:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

• It seems to be working now - I didn't do anything to it since, and it wasn't showing, but it is now! -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 11:18, 28 November 2009 (UTC)