Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps/Archive 3

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Please sign the petion for PUBLIC GEODATA

http://petition.publicgeodata.org/ --Historiograf 23:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Quality

I feel like we need a discussion of the quality needed, and to try to encourage people that just because a map exists, doesn't mean it can't be done better.

My work is firmly "entry level" - it exists only because nothing did before, and a better map is certainly needed. As an example, the map I made of Hamilton Parish, Bermuda, but never put up:

Basic map. I went to Bermuda recently to put it up, and saw Grutness had already put up a map:

A better map, IMO. Includes a close-up version with finer lines, though I'd suggest it could include the lines in the inset, but that's not a major issue. This is a discussion about incremental quality.

Now, my fear is - If I had put up MY map when I uploaded it months ago, would Grutness have gone through the trouble of making his?

There are three levels of maps. Entry-level like mine - just simple borders. Then there's better ones, like Grutness's there, or what not, things with a little more detail, a little more information. And then there's upper-level, like the ones for the Philippines, with sharp, highly accurate lines, and many text labels. I'm just concerned that people who can make better ones see lesser quality ones and decide to work on something else, but I don't know, since I'm not one of those people.

Thoughts? --Golbez 02:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I think you do run the risk of getting a generalized map. However, its seems like the benefit outweighs the risk in most cases where there isn't a map. And, if i come along and need a more detailed map, then i'll try to make it and post it. A side issue: along the lines of quality and standards - is there a common placement for maps in the article? Can we have locator maps or scalebars, near the big pretty maps so someone can tell that Dominica is smaller than Great Inagua? Or, better yet - tie these maps together so that if i'm in Dominica, the locator map is the same as the Caribbean map? Thanks! --naomi 16:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

standard scale?

It would be nice if there was a standard scale of colours say for colouring things like - number of foo in country X: red 1-50, yellow 50-100, green 100-150 etc., This way we could work out beforehand exactly which colours work best and are easily distinguished from others in a scale. I think that brighter colours can be used for scales than the ones at the top of this page. I put thumb|this thing together quickly just to show what I meant, feel free to upload over it with a better one. -- Astrokey44|talk 10:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I feel that such a scale, though possibly helpful, would also be limiting. At most, IMO, it can only be a guideline to be taken into consideration. Colour scales generally vary with context and should be trumped to promote clarity: atlases use a smattering of scales to depict gradations in quantity or value. For instance, the colour scheme used for the HDI – essentially red, yellow, and green – was later discussed and agreed for use in the template/infobox entries with minor dissension.

Moreover, depending on colour scale, the purples could appear on the extreme right of the blues. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 14:38, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

How about several scales - with different colours as well as different number of colours? Of course anyone can use any colours they want for maps, but it would be helpful as a rough guideline just like the standard colours on this page. I notice that you changed the colours on the hdi map from the discussion at Image talk:HDImap current.png. I just thought it might save time if the colours were worked out beforehand? -- Astrokey44|talk 13:11, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree with having consistent colour scales (perhaps a few), but I don't think they'd be enforceable nor are they appropriate for every instance. For instance, I have difficulty with the colour scales used for some of the GDP world maps because countries with higher values (IMO) should be rendered red, not blue (almost indicative of temperature, like an air conditioner gauge) for easy intuition: moreover, colours in between are not intuitive. Similarly, I changed the colours on the HDI at first map because (1) the first scheme was an initial attempt to establish a logical scheme that clearly delineated groups (high, medium, low), and (2) as such, there were a few intermediary colours that were slightly unclear beforehand. Moreover, I'd discourage the use of blue for water for such thematic maps (but obviously not for, say, political or physical maps) due to their use to indicate whatever set of values and potential confusion. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 12:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Thats a good point about red to blue, Id never thought about that before but it does make sense that red would be the highest. I went around looking for some different colour scales in maps on wikipedia and made thumb|this chart so that they could be compared. -- Astrokey44|talk 02:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

ESRI World Basemap Data Use?

Does anyone know the rights behind the http://www.esri.com/data/download/basemap/index.html Basemap data? Their disclaimer page releases them of any obligations but states that "The Data is freely redistributable subject to any restrictions placed on the Data by the data source providers." - They don't identify the source providers, or identify any restrictions. The data links through and is hosted on http://www.geographynetwork.com They state that "Data available to use freely for non-commercial purposes." Is this stuff within the various boundaries set down for use with WP mapmaking? It is probably better for me to know before I go ahead and upload any derived maps then only to get a lot of copyvio and deletion notices. SFC9394 16:27, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

In the disclaimer it states:

"Redistribution Rights: Other than ESRI's intellectual property rights in the shapefile format, ESRI claims no ownership or proprietary rights in the data itself (hereinafter referred to as the "Data"). ESRI is merely redisseminating the Data in ESRI shapefile format for the convenience of the ESRI software user community. The Data is freely redistributable subject to any restrictions placed on the Data by the data source providers."

It's actually not very good data since they don't give any detailed metadata (how current is this data? what's the source? scale? coverage?), but I'd make an assumption that this file was probably derived from the VMAP0 dataset. KWH 04:39, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

In their Redistribution rights page, ESRI gives the rights for individal data layers. Most layers can be redistributed via raster images (exceptions are World Wildlife, Hospitals, Population Tables, many european subnational boundaries, Topography and Bathymetry). A few layers, like US Cities, World Shaded Relief, Geographic Names Information System, data from the National Atlas and National Transportation Atlas are public domain.--Qyd 02:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Map request

Could someone make a new map for Race (United States Census), using our map templates? --Bryan Nguyen | Talk 03:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

ok I did one using the same colours Image:Original locations of races US census definition.PNG. didnt think it should be too detailed or it might become controversial as to exactly which area is which etc so I used the blank map rather than map with countries. Im assuming Australia belongs in the pacific island section -- Astrokey44|talk 10:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team cooperation

Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Places WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 18:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Comment on Map

Wanted to get some comment on this:

Hit me with your best shot, I'm thick skinned and I'm going to redo it anyways. Yes, I know that the fonts are fouled up, if anyone has suggestions on that it would be helpful too... the "GULF OF MEXICO" was a nice pathed text that curved along the coast, etc., but apparently that doesn't convert well.

Thanks, KWH 04:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, apart from the label positions, it looks pretty great. What software did you use? --Dschwen 06:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I fixed the pathed text so it looks better... I'm sort-of using this as an inspiration.

I have an iMac, and I installed postgreSQL and [PostGIS http://postgis.refractions.net], then used a little app called Quantum GIS (qgis) to put together the layers, colors, and markers then exported the SVG, then used Inkscape to finish it up. KWH 14:24, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

---

Coming right along... I'm trying to do this in such a way that it can be reproduced for any state... comments welcome... KWH 05:31, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Maps

Hi, I'm new here. I want to make new maps for Indonesian regions. Could somebody send me any templates or source for GIMPS or CorelDraw (note that Indonesia is an archipelago country), that will look like [1] or [2]. Usually I manipulate map colors from ArcView to Paint, but it looks bad (especially the line and text). My email is wicax2020 at yahoo dot com. Wic2020^Talk 01:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Would something like my blank map work? This is of the provinces, not the regions, but it could be used as a template to zoom in and add internal borders and such. --Golbez 03:24, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Question

I though people at this WikiProject might know how people make maps like this or this ? Is there some Wikipedia tool to make these maps or do people just use their software programs to make the maps?--Jersey Devil 00:08, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The first one looks like it has been made from one of the blank maps at Wikipedia:Blank maps -- Astrokey44|talk 14:38, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Request for help in creating maps

I have written on many articles dealing with history and like to make maps on many of these articles, so people can understand where battles occured, people were born, lived and died and also what the borders of countries were, and whom were the enemies and allies of these countries. Maybe someone likes to help me and explain how it works. I have been a mapoholic since I was ten and i have looked at many historical atlases. I am very bad in programming.--Daanschr 13:23, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

do you have Adobe Illustrator?, that works well for maps. Or for a free program, try GIMP or Inkscape --Astrokey44 15:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

My computer is five years old, so i will ask my neighbour to help me installing it. Thanks!--Daanschr 17:23, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I was going to say what AstroKey said, no need for programming, all you really need is a graphics program of some sort. Take a look at some of the user created maps to get ideas. Kmusser 17:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I have installed GIMP. Now i will try to produce a map of the Roman Empire in 50 BC (the approximate date that civilization started in the area where i am now). I will try to search a good map to start with. I want to make a map showing the Mediterranean Sea and Western Europe.--Daanschr 12:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I am trying to find a map without modern borders of countries, but with rivers and mountains.--Daanschr 13:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

See if you can make a basemap using the website at http://www.aquarius.geomar.de/omc/make_map.html and download it. I think GIMP can read EPSF files, then use GIMP to make it look nicer and add your historical information. Kmusser 18:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't change the colours of the map of www.aquarius.geomar.de, both on GIMP and Paint.--Daanschr 19:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I have downloaded a map, but it is not visible. The link to it doesn't work, but you can reach it on my user contributions. I changed from GIMP to Inkscape, because i couldn't change the colours. But inkscape apparantly doesn't have any colours, so i used MS Paint. Downloading the image was not a great success. I want to use a lighter colour of blue for the water, red for enemies and grey for neutral countries. I am not satisfied with the map as it is now. Maybe you have some tips?--Daanschr 11:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I like to make maps like this German [3]. Schade das er verschwindet ist. His last edit was from december 2005, so he will probably not respond. I tried to use www.demis.nl, but it works with mediaplayer. How can i make an image from a peace of a video, just like the German user FJ did?--Daanschr 12:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

He probably paid lots of money. Demis isn't for free.--Daanschr 14:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

photoshop has a way to replace colours, not sure if GIMP has that too. Also, perhaps you could use this Image:BlankMap-Europe-v3.png map? If you set it to 50% opacity and put a map showing mountains and rivers as a layer below it in GIMP, you can trace over them onto the map. I suppose you have already seen Image:Roman Empire.png which shows Roman empire in 44BC? --Astrokey44 16:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Here is the result: Lucius Aemilius Paulus (Consul in 50 BC).--Daanschr 08:40, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Good work, is Lycia the part of Turkey which is not coloured? --Astrokey44 08:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes it is. One of the Roman puppet states. Maybe i should give them a certain colour as well.--Daanschr 11:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that looks pretty good. For reference I also use Photoshop, which gives more control over colour and smoothing than MS paint, but it's definitely not free :-) Kmusser 12:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I have a problem replacing old maps by a new version. Wikipedia doesn't accept a new download. I want to replace Lucius Paullus by User:Daanschr/ Maptest. Also is it possible, to make links in white instead of blue and to get rid of the lines underneath them?--Daanschr 21:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

What happens when you try to upload hte pic over it? And no, I don't think you can control the underline, but as for color, yes, with a font-color thingamajig. --Golbez 00:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Featured picture candidate

Hi! I've listed my blank map of India as a candidate for a featured picture. =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Some comments from the Commons

Hello, I'm a regular editor at the Commons and I've just recently become interested in creating maps, but I thought I would post a few observations about what makes a good map.

• Upload to the Commons (of course ;)) so as many people can use it as possible
• In this vein, if at all possible, keep text labels and captions off your image. For some maps this is not really possible, but for others it is. (For example, maps depicting spread of language dialects, or voting preferences, or ethnic demographics, or...) Colour codes or icons can be used. The key/legend should not be part of the image proper, but the image description page/caption - this allows the maximum re-use by non-English wikis with a minimum of fuss. (This key is really important. I recently saw an animated map that depicted the changing territories of Canada. The areas were shaded in one of four colours with no mention of what (if anything!) these colours signified. In the interests of WP:CSB, it's best to assume as little as possible.)
• If this is not possible, also upload a base blank map that others can easily use to adapt for their language.
• Because SVGs are easier for others to edit, SVGs are usually preferred, but a beautiful PNG map is still a beautiful map.

OK, that's it. :) Maybe it's all obvious but I thought I'd mention it anyway. cheers, pfctdayelise (translate?) 12:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

What about numbers in maps? I think numbers can be used since all european languages use them and most other languages at least know the western numerals --Astrokey44 03:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

After all this is the english wikipedia. I'm all for supplying blank maps, but that doesn't mean we cannot have western numerals or labels on the map, if it makes it clearer. --Dschwen 06:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I always upload blank and English versions of my map, and others if applicable. For example, maps of Azerbaijan's divisions in: Azeri, English, Numbered in Azeri order, and Blank. I even may upload numbered maps in other languages if they differ and if I have the proper information, though usually that's what the blank map is for (and it has been done in this fashion with my Algeria map on the Arabic pedia). And the map of Canada was mine, and I figured that the coloring was self-explanatory, but you're right, I'll do that from now on. Until recently I put very little info in the image pages but I've started adding more. (ps for those wondering what it is: Image:Canada provinces evolution.gif) As for SVG, I'd love to start working with it if there were an SVG program that ran on my computer with any semblance of speed.

Many languages have different numbers. Arabs and Chinese for instance use different type of symbols for the numbers. A possibility for the problem of use of maps for other languages is that two maps could be made with the same topic. One blank map for all languages and a map with text and numbers for the english wikipedia. These maps can be linked to eachother in the article of the image.--Daanschr 07:57, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I really like the Canada map you made, it inspired me to do an Australian versio of the same sort of thing. I also often make a blank and an english version of a map for commons, if youre working with layers its simple to hide the text and save the file and get a blank version. --Astrokey44 09:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I've got my own Australia map to upload. You missed a few steps. ;) As for layers, I hate how The Gimp handles text; I always save the file as a png, then load it up in Fireworks and handle the text there. --Golbez 09:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I was using the maps that were there, what are the missing steps? --Astrokey44 00:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The creation and dissolution of Central Australia. --Golbez 05:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

As for the legend not being part of the map proper, this is not exactly a major issue. If the map is in English then by all means, include the legend in the map; if it's non-linguistic, then you shouldn't include a legend. (And in my case, my blank maps are always colorless, to let others color in as desired, so they wouldn't have a legend anyway) Compare, again, my maps of Cyprus: in English and blank.

Overall, though, thanks for your comments. :) --Golbez 06:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Which priograms have you tried, and what kind of computer do you own? SVG would be significantly added value. --Dschwen 07:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Inkscape. I would try FreeHand if I had a version that handled SVG. And an AthlonXP 1800+ with 512mb; old and slow. I figure, eventually, I'll convert all my work to SVG, but til then, PNG is better than nothing. --Golbez 08:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Help please!

This one

Urr, I don't know if this is the reight place to ask, so sorry if its not, but I was wondering if anyone could supply me with a map of South Africa like the one shown of germany but (of south africa obviously,) with dots on Bloemfontein , Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg, Nelspruit, Polokwane, Port Elizabeth, Pretoria and Rustenburg. I can't imagine it being to difficult but all the world maps provided get all pixelated when I zoom in on africa. Well thanks for your help in advance! Philc _T^E_C^I 15:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

How's this?

How's this for a start? KWH 18:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Awesome thank you so much, I dunno how you did that, it took about as long as that to work out I couldn't do it!! Philc _T^E_C^I 18:27, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

If I want to include it in an article or something do I move it or just use the funky name? Philc _T^E_C^I 18:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

You can't move images; they have to be reuploaded with the new name. Just use it as is. :) --Golbez 19:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Okie dokie, cheers guys! Philc _T^E_C^I 20:13, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Maps with disputed claims

I've noticed that maps of many countries do not adhere to the neutral point of view and show only regions claimed by the "host" country. To mark such maps, I've created a new template: Template:POV-map and have suggested some guidelines in Template talk:POV-map#Removing bias. =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Award proposal

Please see Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/New_Proposals#Mapmakers_Star.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 16:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Someone should go support the proposal --evrik 17:04, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

What happened to this proposal? It seems to have been closed. MapMaster 04:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

It was approved, Mapmakers stars may be given. Kmusser 14:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Locator dots

The now deleted template:Infobox U.S. City had a "pin coords" parameter that was used with absolute positioning CSS to put a location dot on a mostly blank map. The replacement template, template:Infobox City does not have this parameter and, instead, a map per location is being used. Does anyone know of any good reason not to use CSS absolute positioning for this purpose? I can imagine support for absolute positioning might vary by browser, but haven't seen anyone complain about this anywhere which makes me think it's supported by relatively current versions of at least IE, Firefox, Opera, and Safari. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:45, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Does silence mean "I don't know of any problems" or "I don't know what you're talking about" or no one watches this page? It's a little hard for me to tell. If anyone watching could say something (anything) that might help. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 15:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

One consideration I've thought of, but don't know how legitimate it might be, is that it seems a "pre-dotted" map (unique map for a location including the dot) might be friendlier for Wikipedia:mirrors and forks. On the other hand, templates are getting so complex these days (with m:ParserFunctions and all) that I suspect it's getting to the point that non-MediaWiki mirrors are having a hard time consuming alot of Wikipedia content. I'm still looking for comments. Even "I don't know" would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

If anyone would like to see an example of a template using this technique, Template:Ie citytown infobox seems to be the origin of the technique. Essentially all articles using this template plunk a locator dot on top of a blank map of (a county in) Ireland. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

One idea is that the CSS method requires the underlying map to remain the same; if the image is changed, the placement of the dots may be incorrect. But overall it seems to me that having a single "map" image is better, as it enforces consistency. —Bkell (talk) 04:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected areas uses a dot on a common underlying map for all protected areas, e.g., Yosemite National Park. One minor problem is that Safari on OS X displays the dot about 2 or 3 pixels from the location displayed on Windows browsers. But, if you simply want to indicate the approximate location of the feature, it works fine. Walter Siegmund (talk) 04:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I honestly don't know. It would be nice to use dots, but only if it can be consistent across all browsers. We also have to keep in mind that text-based browsers, where people would download the image separately, cannot use it. But that's a minor issue as far as I'm concerned, because the info is still there to generate the image themselves. As for "do people know a reason not to do it," the best answer I can give is ask the Technical Village Pump (WP:VPT) about using CSS in this manner. --Golbez 04:46, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I prefer the superimpostion templates. It's saves on the trouble in creating locator maps for each and every town. I'm not sure about Mac and Linux browsers, but it works fine in the Windows browsers. I don't think wiki mirrors would have too much of a problem rendering the content: The underlying base will always be the standard XHTML/CSS, and all browsers can implement them. =Nichalp «Talk»= 12:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but I just wanted to point out that, IMO, we should never care what is best for the mirrors. If they can't handle it, oh well. --Golbez 23:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I like the templates, but there is some value in the individual maps - perhaps if you wanted to copy/print the locator map. this came up before with the australian template. Maybe use individual maps for main cities and the template for smaller locations? --Astrokey44 06:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Request for replacement

Image:Gulfislands.JPG is a fair use map that should be failry easy to replace, but I also believe it to be rather uninformative. Looking at it, I find it difficult to precisely locate the archipelago in my mind. Also, it should properly identify the surrounding water bodies, I believe. Any taker? Circeus 01:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Image:Montaguemaps.jpg was uploaded by the same user. It is a "public domain" photograph of a copyrighted map (with nasty flare from the flash too). Mike Dillon 01:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Is it bad that I find that image hilarious? Wonder what article it illustrated... Circeus 01:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I uploaded a similar map: Image:Gulf Islands map.png. I might have overdone the shading, and the overview inset is too colorfull, but I can modify that if you have suggestions--Qyd 01:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC).

A request for three maps of New Zealand

Is there anyone with the appropriate mapping software and (ideally) the background in Wikipedia standards who can make some maps of New Zealand. There are freely available local government boundary files.

What we need are three maps that we can colour/put dots on:

• A blank map of New Zealand (for dotting with placenames)
• A map of New Zealand showing territorial authority boundaries (from the boundary file above)
• A map of New Zealand showing regional council boundaries (also from the boundary file above)

A few of technical notes for anyone who does attempt this:

• Territorial authority boundaries typically (but not always) follow the coastline
• Regional council boundaries extend beyond the coastline
• We probably don't want to see the boundaries beyond the coastline
• I don't know where to get coastline data but maybe mapping software comes with coastline data or someone else knows where to get it
• Don't worry about the Chatham Islands, they are too far offshore to be included in the map

Thanks in advance for anyone who does help! This came out of a discussion on Talk:Wellington.

Ben Arnold 11:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I think "freely available" comes with one minor caveat here. Statistics NZ require that they be acknowledged as the source of any information coming from them.[4] A shapefile for the NZ coastline is available [here http://www.ollivier.co.nz/atlas/adminbdy/nzcoast.zip] (under the GPL, as far as I can see[5]). -- Avenue 15:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

You're probably right, but it's also possible that the NZ Government has made these boundary files freely available (they aren't statistical boundaries) and Statistics New Zealand is doing us the favour of putting them up on their site. I've e-mailed Statistics New Zealand to find out what license they're under. Ben Arnold 17:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I forgot to say before that these 3 maps would be of use to quite a number of articles: the region map: about 17 articles; the territorial authority map: about 75 articles; the other map: hundreds of articles. If you helped out, it could make you famous! Ben Arnold 17:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. :) --Golbez 15:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi everybody. I made two NZ, SVG maps for the article List_of_New_Zealand_railway_lines. They might be a good starting point for this request. manu3d 01:30, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Map Collection: WikiAtlas

I started a longduring project to build a WikiAtlas. This would lead to a collection of entries in Wikipedia (like Maps of Anguilla). More info can be found at Portal:Atlas. Electionworld (prev. :Wilfried) (talk 13:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Just started: Trains project Maps task force

Over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains we've just initiated the Maps task force to work on maps for articles related to rail transport worldwide. We've tagged many of the articles on US rail subjects that need maps with {{TrainsWikiProject|...|Mapneeded=yes|...}} (and some use Mapdetails= to provide more information about the map that is needed), which adds the articles to Category:Trains project articles needing maps. I've gone through Category:Wikipedia requested maps to retag those that are rail transport related articles. We've identified a few hundred articles that need maps, and there are likely several hundred more as we look to historical and worldwide rail transport subjects.

If you're interested in railroad maps, you're welcome to join in and help out. I've made a few (such as on California Southern Railroad and on Wisconsin Central Railway), and I plan to work on many more based on our task force work list. Slambo (Speak) 19:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

City maps

Hi all,
I've been working on a map of Kinshasa for a while and here's what I got so far Image:Kinshasa large nolabels.png. I'm using the recommended colours but I was wondering if there's any specific for city maps. Any suggestion is welcome. Cheers. --moyogo 20:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think we have any guidelines yet for city maps. Just a comment though - Are all those little orange specks in the east and northeast parts of Kinshasa? If not, then this looks more like a map of the Stanley Pool region, and perhaps should be focused only on the lower left. Looks good so far. --Golbez 21:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Are all those little orange specks in the east and northeast parts of Kinshasa? Yes and no, the rural communes or districts are much larger than the map, the urban communes are grouped in the southern part of the Malebo Pool. Image:Kinshasa-communes.svg can give you an idea of what the City-Province is like. The two eastern parts in the top overview are the rural districts, the western part is the urban districts with residential one. The map I made is just a start, I guess we could have two maps, an large one with less details but the whole administrative City-Province and a smaller one with just the lower part of the Pool. --moyogo 22:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

How can I help??

While I am a relative newbie, account-wise, I have been using Wikipedia and contributing the odd anonymous edit for some time now.

I have finally decided to join the ranks of the registered because I am frustrated by the low quality of many maps on Wikipedia. I love the idea of standard colors, but no one seems to be using them as much as they should. I love the idea of standard outlines (e.g this map of India) but they seem to be the exception.

My personal dislikes are:

• The red/pink maps such as used in Albania.
• The standard plain-and-ugly country maps, which use only green/gray. What's up with that, anyway??
• The maps which highlight a county/ward instead of providing a decent map of the city (e.g. Podgorica and Duxbury).

So, how can I help?? MapMaster 04:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Go through the requested maps page or requested maps category and pick something to work on. Some maps are intentionally made very plain to facilitate their use in other language wikipedias. For cities and other small geographic areas I think ideally they'd have at least two maps, a locator map to show where it is in the country/state/whatever, and then another more detailed one of the area itself. Thanks for joining. Kmusser 13:51, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look at the list later this week. MapMaster 13:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, not all the people who make maps know about the project and not all who make maps are knowledgeable in the field of cartography. Most of us are just amateurs here. There's no one leading the process. And let's face it, while creating neutral articles is hard already, creating beautiful maps is even harder because aesthetics come into the picture which is entirely subjective. For the moment, the important thing is that the maps do serve some informative purpose, no matter how ugly they are. Improving the maps can always be done later. How can you help? If there are articles that need maps but don't have them yet, feel free to create one. Regarding the maps you dislike, what are examples of maps that you do like? That can be a starting ground for collaboration. =) --seav 14:07, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I did mention that India map. Let me look for other maps. In general, the best maps here in WIkipedia:

• will be sharply defined and clear (way too many maps are nothing but a jumble when viewed on the article page)
• will have colors based on those at the top of the page
• will not require a magnifying glass and maxi-zoom to read the details (way too many maps IMHO try to cram way too much into a single map)
• will be easy to interpret
• actually look like they were designed to accompany the text in the article.

Thanks for listening, MapMaster 13:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Morwen and I are almost entirely responsible for the red/pink color scheme. If you have a suggestion on how to make it better, I'm willing to listen. --Golbez 16:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

My own personal preference is a scheme that is less glaring and less "primary" than red (and pink). Perhaps a color scheme based on the suggested colors at the top of the page, in particular variations of the Light yellow (#FFFFD0), would not only be less excitable but would help towards standardizing map colors. Thanks for listening, MapMaster 13:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The yellow would be one color, but what would the 'highlight' color be? --Golbez 12:41, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Bigger map required

I need a political map of Europe, for the Eurovision Song Contest article, but it needs to display all parts of all the countries on this list (i.e. North African nations). At the moment this one is the closest, but I think that a new map needs to be created. Hopefully WikiProject Maps can do something to help. If a new map were to be created, would it be sensible to wait until Kosovo becomes an independent nation, so that this particular map would not be needed to be changed? RedvBlue 13:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why do you need all parts of all countries displayed on the map? Greenland isn't displayed completely, and parts of the Kingdom of the Netherlands are missing, as well, and so on... —Nightstallion (?) 19:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Eritrea Road Map

Hey guys, I wanted to make a map of Eritrea's primary road network. I have the coordinates (path) for most of the roads, but in some cases I will be relying on what I can find on Google Earth's maps (which are surprisingly hi-res). Anyway I was wondering if you guys would be able to help me make it. For instance I am not quite sure if that meta system for making maps on the fly ever got off the ground. Also I am not sure what program would be best to use. This would be my first map so I would prefer a program that didnt have a ridiculous learning curve (the GIMP), unless of course I could be shown the ropes quickly. Most importantly if I already have a map of Eritrea is there anyway to put geocode reference points so all I have to do is put the geodata into the software and it draws the map? I know this is asking a lot and I was not particularly brief but I would really appreciate any help I could get. Thanks! --Merhawie 22:55, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That's hard. If your data is a bunch of coordinates, you should use some GIS software to place the data. Normal graphics editing software (like Photoshop, GIMP, Illustrator, Inkscape) won't cut it, unless your base map is in a Plate carrée projection/Equirectangular projection, and even then, it's a lot of work. I don't have any extensive experience using GIS software so I can't help you with that. --seav 11:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Corrected map needed of West Bengal, India

This is regarding the map in the article West Bengal — Image:India West Bengal locator map.svg. West Bengal currently has 19 districts while the map shows 18. Midnapore District was divided into East Midnapore and West Midnapore. And I have not been able to find out a proper map on the web. However, I have found out a way ro build a proper map.

See this map showing the assembly constituencies of all the districts of West Bengal. Now go to this website, and download "List of AC Name" from "Download data". An excel file will be downloaded listing all the assembly constituencies with their districts. From this data and the map, a map showing east and west Midnapur can be developed. Another website — this one — has relatively simpler map showing the sub-district entities of the previous district of Midnapore.

I do not know how to create maps. So I request the participants of this project to kindly see into the matter and help develope a correct map. Thanks a lot. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 17:20, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

SVG has poor font support

Either the SVG translator has very poor font support &/or I don't know what I'm doing in that format.

I used Inkscape to edit this Spanish-language map of the archaeological site of La Venta -- and I think I did a good job turning it into this map. But when I tried to load my map as an SVG image, I got this. It seems that Wikimedia supports only 1 or 2 fonts in SVG format. That is, any font you use in an SVG will be dumbed down to a plain serif (Times Roman) or non-serif (Arial, Helvetica) font. Is this any way to publish a map? As you can see, I finally uploaded it in PNG format.

I like the ease with which I built upon Yavidaxiu's map, but font control (a choice of fonts) is critical to a quality map.

I did investigate the SVG maps available in Wikipedia, and it seems that some mapmakers make their way around the issue by turning their words into pictures. That's a lot of trouble, methinks, and defeats some of the advantages of SVG format.

Any thoughts here? MapMaster 04:06, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Limiting the choice of fonts is a good thing (tm) typographically. You wouldn't complain about wikipedia articles always using the same single font all the time either, would you? --Dschwen 07:49, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Not true with maps. The problem with maps is that text in maps needs to have strict positioning and dimensions. For simple maps, any font will do, but for other cases, the choice of font is important especially if you want the text to be legible and wont overlap other texts or graphical elements. --seav 11:13, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

In addition it is common in maps to use different fonts to help differentiate different types of features (i.e. to help tell cities apart from regions). We could have a discussion here about standardizing fonts for maps, but you'd still want a choice of at 5-6 to choose from. Kmusser 14:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly right, seav. And as an example, Kmusser, in the map under discussion, I used two different fonts to distinguish between the monuments and the altars (I also coloured the fonts differently and put a different shape around the font too).

Text blocks are utilitarian, and are meant to be read (and quickly). You might as well argue, Dschwen, that we should use only one size of font on maps or use just black-and-white on our maps, like we do in our articles.

Maps are very visual documents and the typography is an element of that, and I would like a bigger palette here. Who do I see about getting the font support improved?? MapMaster 14:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I really don't want to bash your efforts, but that map is exactly what I'm talking about. Use of non standard fonts in way that doesn't make sense typographically. coloured the fonts differently and put a different shape around the font too says it all, it's too much! Either use font or color or shape, and since the fonts you chose look faily similar, and with greyscale reproductions in mind, I'd stick to shape. Look at professional maps, and you wont see more than two fonts (those being serif and sans-serif). Hey I'm not arguing against different font sizes, thats useful, and common practice in maps, as is color. But if you cannot make a map with the two standard fonts you might want to check if your are cramming too much information on the map. More fonts makes maps too complicated and hampers their usefullness to the viewer. --Dschwen 16:51, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Taking a look at my latest National Geographic map I count 6 fonts, 2 colors, and lots of different sizes. Professional maps usually use font (and occasionally color) to distinguish type of feature and size to distinguish importance - the only maps that restrict themselves to two fonts are ones that only have two kinds of features on them. I'd argue for using different fonts rather than colors because of the greyscale issue and to be kind to our color-blind users. Kmusser 18:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

So, following Kmusser's lead, I went through a stack of my National Geographic maps and I found the same patterns. Plain geographic maps tended to have 2 or perhaps 3 fonts, but other map (e.g. resource, changes over time, multiple focuses) had many more. Moreover, the historical maps tend to use historical-looking fonts, a look I was going for in my La Venta map.

I need increased font support if I'm going to publish maps in SVG. Anyone know how?? MapMaster 20:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I wrote an email (actually two) to the wiki-tech list a few weeks ago which was more or less ignored. Check out bugzilla, and try submitting your request as a bug there. This might yield better results. --Dschwen 11:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks like there are already two open bugs. And no statements from developers. I see now that the situation is unsatisfactory if even basic font support is not working properly. --Dschwen 11:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates. Is there anything I can do to help? MapMaster 16:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I encountered this same problem when I made Image:First century palestine.gif I guess part of this is that I am a graphic designer by (*ahem*) trade and the difference between Univers 47 and Arial, or the difference between Adobe Caslon Swash Italic and Times Roman is MONUMENTAL to me. Why spend 5 hours tracing a map, 5 hours researching and placing historic settlements, when the final version is going to have a poorly designed face that is going to be imprecisely placed (just look how the title in MapMaster's Image:La Venta Site Plan.svg runs out of the boarder, or compare my map to the SVG version Image:Iudaea province.svg. There are antialiasing problems, it rendered everything in the same sanserif, with no italic, the placement is off, and its just aesthetically not pleasing).

Possible solution, you could outline the fonts, but then the text is no longer selectable. And because of the nature of fonts, if you embed a font, or possibly even the outlines of a font, you could be violating copyright laws. (but embedding fonts isn't a problem because wikipedia doesn't render these SVGs correctly anyway). So it is a major issue that really isn't going to go away. There is no perfect solution, you have to settle for the 2 default faces, and work around them, or you have to choose another format, or do something to your type that renders it useless for selection/future editing in SVG. I don't have the answer, which is why I am reluctant to work more on vector illustrations for wikipedia.--Andrew c 21:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I have since attempted to embed the fonts as "paths" in Inkscape, which seems to work decently well, although I still find that some general features are not translated well. As Andrew c points out, changing the fonts to just-another-graphic does somewhat defeat the ideal of SVG in the first place. I'll let you know if I find another solution. MapMaster 01:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Coordinates grid for blank world map

I am preparing a map for a 17th-century naval exploration and would find it very useful to have a detailed coordinates grid for blank world maps like Image:BlankMap-World5.svg, to assist in positioning. Something like Image:BlankMap-World2.svg, but with lines every 1 or 5 degrees, to keep on a different layer and discard when finished.

Rather than interpolating the available grid by hand, it would be much easier to re-generate it from the original source. Any pointers for a quick way to obtain such a grid, or someone willing to do it? Thanks, --BrokenArrow 13:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

SVG newbie question

I'm working on creating maps as part of the Former Countries WikiProject and I would like to use SVG. The maps that I am currently working on (using Inkscape) are location maps and so they need a lot of elements. The only problem is that the files are too big (1.7MB in one case). My attempts at simplifying the images result in unusable borders. Is there any way to reduce the file size, or should I just use the SVG to create high-resolution PNGs (which would have a smaller file size) and upload them? Thanks. - 52 Pickup 12:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

1.7Mb is not too big. Please make the SVG source available. --Dschwen 13:38, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Alrighty, here is an example of my work. At the moment, I have been making location maps for the provinces of Prussia (see: here) in PNG format and I would now like to make SVG versions of these. So far, I have uploaded one SVG image: Image:Map-Prussia-LowerSilesia.svg, which is 1.3MB compared to 139k for Image:Map-Prussia-LowerSilesia.png. The SVG version is clearly better quality, but the file size is 10 times larger. This might be okay for just one file, but I will be putting up heaps of images like this. So if there is any way to keep the file size down, I would like to do that now before I make a heap of other files. - 52 Pickup 09:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

How do you get Inkscape to load a file that big? When I try, it craps out :( --Golbez 12:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

My computer is pretty powerful, maybe that helps. At first, Inkscape crashed a lot for me too. No idea. I wish I could make these files smaller, though. - 52 Pickup 12:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

So's mine, that's the thing. When my old PC (AthlonXP 1800+, 512mb) couldn't do it, that could have been the computer. But when my new computer (Conroe, 2gb) can't? Are you using the release version of Inkscape or a development version? --Golbez 18:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm using v0.44.1 (9 sep 2006 build) - 52 Pickup 09:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I just looked into the source code of your svg file. It looks like most of the file size comes from ridicolously precise coordinates, something inkscape is responsible for. I.e. this is one of the coordinates in one of the file's path blocks: 50.600647. That's 50 pixels and 600647 millionths of a pixel. In other words, to make it in any way meaningful to have that kind of precision, you'd have to scale the shape in question, a one-million-fold to see any difference between 50.600647 and 50.600648. Unfortunately I do not know of any easy fix other than writing a little script in perl, python, tcl or even php, to strip all numbers of all or part of their decimal digits. Further optimization can be achieved using CSS styles rather inkscape's style attributes, but this specific file won't gain much in terms of file size reduction. It would, however, gain quite a lot in terms of editability as you'd have to change only few lines to do major changes to the map. An example of what I mean is available here. Have a look at the source code of the SVG file. The CSS style are right at the beginning of the file. manu3d 02:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately my programming expertise is too miserable to write any useful scripts. There's now way that this precision can be reduced within Inkscape itself? - 52 Pickup 09:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently not. I did find however a little extension that is intended to do just that. Unfortunately it doesn't work for me. I suspect because my inkscape installation is not on drive C. You might want to try it though. You can find it here: http://blog.subverted.net/?p=619 It just requires you to copy the files in the correct directory, and you'll then find it available in the Effects Menu. Give it a try and let us know if it works for you, please. manu3d 15:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It works! If you set the number of decimal points to 2, the file size reduces from 1.35MB to 993kB. Reducing it to 1 point brings it down to 871kB. Removing all decimal points only shaves off another 1kB. Nice find. - 52 Pickup 16:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, eventually I also managed to make it work (sort of) and I've noticed the same size reduction. The size isn't reduced any further setting to zero the precision because it doesn't actually eliminate the last decimal digit, but just resets it to 0. Glad I could be of help. manu3d 18:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

An important thing I noticed: all path names must have standard characters (i.e. no umlauts, slashes, etc) otherwise it won't work. - 52 Pickup 08:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 14:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Historical atlas

A new project has started, Wikipedia:WikiProject historical atlas. We want to create a historical atlas for Wikipedia. Can anyone help us to find (free) systems for the creation of maps, so our software programmer doesn't have to do work that already has been done.--Daanschr 08:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

WP Former Countries, Cartography department

The Former countries WikiProject has been established to improve the quality and accessiblity of articles on now-defunct states. For each entry, we would like to have (at least) a location map for the country in question (for use in our infobox). The project is still starting up, but we should soon have a big list of entries that require such maps. If you are interested in helping out, sign up here. This department will work closely with WP Historical Atlas. - 52 Pickup 08:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

How could I 'join'?

I have made several maps for Wikipedia, including the maps for the Rowley Island, Loks Land Island, and Antioch articles. I figured I should join this project if I were to continue contributing maps, but I don't know what I need to do in order to become a member. Could someone point me in the right direction? --CommKing 19:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Add your name to the list. That's it. :) --Golbez 20:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Final decision on two-color map colors

OK, before I start converting my maps to SVG, I'd like a final consensus on what color they should be. Mine have all been pink, with red for emphasis; Morwen made some like that, and some with green, with light green for emphasis; and then we have the country locator maps, which are grey, with dark green for emphasis; and then the USA state locator maps, which are white, with red for emphasis.

So... which style should I use for my province locator maps? I've gotten a couple of complaints about the pink/red system, so I open it up to y'all. --Golbez 00:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with pink/red or grey/green maps, but if you wanted them more in line with the color scheme laid out here you could use tan/yellow which is what I've been using for river basins. I do like any of those better than the white/red maps. Kmusser 17:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Kmusser. I think that the pink/red maps look garish and non-professional while the grey/green maps bring an unwelcome darkness to the page. Like Kmusser, I use the colors listed at the top of this page whenever possible and have found that the tan/yellow combination is almost universally useful. Do you have a gallery showing your work?? MapMaster 22:22, 11 December 2006 (UTC) - - P.S. If in doubt, I look at a good historical and see what colors they are using. I find that they generally use muted colors, except for small areas of importance, where they will often use a yellow or red.

The chart at the top of the screen has nothing for two color maps. As for a gallery, I have a rudimentary one here. --Golbez 22:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Well I don't think the pink/red maps look garish, but the color scheme here is definitely useful for two colors - using primary area of interest (yellow) and surrounding areas (tan). I think the Thailand maps (Chiang Mai as an example]] are some of the nicest province locator maps and they use the scheme here, although they go to 3 color (adding red as "point of interest") instead of 2 to include adjacent countries, which I think is a nice addition. I'd probably use the lighter red-orange than the dark red though if you go that way. Kmusser 17:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

San Francisco

Hello all. I'd like to make a map for each of the Neighborhoods in San Francisco, California that highlights each neighborhood, so that people can see at a glance what area that neighboorhood covers. I'm completely new to mapmaking, so what would be the best way to go about this? The best resource I've found would be a map at the SFMuni website. Thanks in advance for your help. - Zepheus <ツィフィアス> 00:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Request for feedback

Similar to an above thread, I would like some feedback regarding colour schemes. I have been busy with the creation of location maps for historical states, currently working on German states, starting with Prussia and its provinces (gallery). There is already this map: Image:Deutsches Reich (Karte) Preußen.svg, but I wanted to make a different one because I was not happy with the colours used and the absence of neighboring countries or water. So my version is here: Image:Map-DR-Prussia.svg, which mostly follows the colour scheme proposed by this project - the only difference is the dark blue that I used to mark Prussia (this came from my initial desire to use Prussian Blue). So I've got two questions:

1. For other German states, I'm not sure what colours to use to mark out the states: either a relevant colour for the state (eg. green for Saxony, red for Hesse (eg. Volksstaat Hessen), light blue for Bavaria) or just red for all of the others, I'm not sure. For some of the smaller states, this is not so easy (eg. Saxe-Meiningen). What do you think?
2. With subdivisions within Prussia comes another level of complexity. The earlier PNG maps that I did look like this: Image:Map-Prussia-Hanover.png, but I want to convert them to SVG and I'm not too happy with this scheme any more. My first attempt with SVG for province maps is here Image:Map-Prussia-LowerSilesia.svg - here I did use Prussian Blue for the bulk of Prussia but, as you can see, it is too dark. My current attempt is here: Image:Map-Prussia-Hanover.svg. I'm still not too sure about this yet. Any thoughts? Thanks. - 52 Pickup 14:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

On #1 I think you should keep the other states all the same color, it'll look really busy if you make them all different. I wouldn't use red though, not if Prussia is your subject, red will distract unless it's really light, more of a pink. I think it looks fine as it is.

On #2 I think the last one of Hanover looks pretty good. You could keep the tan for the non-German surrounding area you used on the main Prussia map. May try yellow instead of orange for Hanover, either is probably fine though. Kmusser 17:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Although I worry about too much red on a map, I think that it serves well on the Volksstaat_Hessen map, particularly given the small size of the map and the small size of the Hessen state.

Regarding the Saxe-Meiningen map, the problem is that some states/provinces are just too tiny. It's always been difficult to highlight Prince Edward Island on a map of Canada, or Washington, D.C. on a map of the US. I think the Saxe-Meiningen map size etc is just fine.

Regarding the color options for these 2 maps, I would suggest swapping the orange/tan used outside Germany with the gray used inside Germany -- the orange/tan color draws more attention than the gray (and perhaps the gray might be less dark).

2 Regarding the provincial maps, I am concerned about the strong colors (see the quote in the section below). In my opinion, black should not be used as a map area color -- nearly all maps use a black or brown as a border color only. I'm also concerned about the different border colors used in Image:Map-Prussia-Hanover.svg.

I would suggest that a lighter or less intense Prussian Blue be used as the color for Prussia, that the particular province use a richer perhaps darker version of Prussian Blue, that the rest of Germany use an attractive light color (like the basic light yellow shown above (#FFFFD0), and the border states use either a light gray or the browns above (#D0C0A0 or #A08070)). Although I haven't tested any of these out, though.  : )

Here are some "locator maps" I like:

• Image:India-locator-map-blank.svg - a Featured Picture
• Image:Abruzzo Provinces.png - part of a set showing the provinces of Italy, a project almost exactly like yours
• Image:Golden Horde 1389.svg - a two color locator map of mine

Hope this helps, MapMaster 01:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all the good ideas. I'll give them a try and get back to you later. - 52 Pickup 14:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

After taking on your helpful advice, and a bit more experimenting, here are two new attempts at a German state map (Image:Map-DR-Hesse.svg) and a Prussian province map (Image:Map-Prussia-Pomerania.svg). Swapping the tan and the grey made a big difference, as did using the light yellow. With using different shades of blue for the provinces map, it was necessary to set the water to white - but it turned out better to set the water to white than the surrounding countries (as i did in the Hanover example). I think these new drafts are better than my previous attempt, but is there anything else that I could do to make these even better? - 52 Pickup 13:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Traditional color schemes for german provinces are often connected to the old ruling houses. The Wittelsbach heritage is traditionally in different shades of green while the Wettiner heritage (Saxony and the small states west of it) is between brown/orange, the Würtemberg yellow. Wandalstouring 21:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, using these colours for each state was what I had in mind earlier on. Unfortunately, I have not been able to come up with a default background scheme that would accomodate all of these different colours - so I'll probably have to stick with just one or two colours. - 52 Pickup 16:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

You could consult the "Putzger. Historischer Weltatlas" ISBN 3-464-00178-4 for advise. Wandalstouring 16:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

A thought on colour selection

"Pure, bright, or very strong colors have loud, unbearable effects when they stand unrelieved over large areas adjacent to each other, but extraordinary effects can be acheived when they are used sparingly on or between dull background tones. . . . If one limits strong, heavy, rich, and solid colors to the small areas . . . then expressive and beautiful patterns occur. If one gives all [areas], especially large areas, glaring, rich colors, the pictures have brilliant, disordered, confusing, and unpleasant effects" Eduard Imbof, Cartographic Relief Presentation, translated by H J Steward.

Vectors cant adequately show coastlines

The western edge of Ireland on svg world map. Razor-sharp lines, yes, but does it actually look like a coastline?

I think the convert to SVG templates on world maps should be removed. Vectors are supposed to be used on a curve or a line where it uses less space to use the equation rather than the bitmaps. The closer in you get the more detail there is - there is no equation which can make it simpler, and any attempt to do so just makes the file ridiculously large: A perfect SVG world map would have an infinite file size. SVG is definately better for diagrams, street maps and rail maps, but not for showing coastlines. See also the concern about using SVG raised here [6] --Astrokey44 02:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It may not be perfect, but is SVG adequate for the needs here? No map can show coastlines perfectly, whether using SVG or another format. (SEWilco 17:05, 15 December 2006 (UTC))

Raster graphics can at least show the coast accurate to the scale it depicts. The SVG world maps are good and useful, I just think it is going too far to keep adding convert-to-SVG templates to all the PNG world maps when the SVG is twenty times larger and wrong even in theory. If anything there should be commons:Template:Coastline SVG --Astrokey44 02:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

In this case, the advantage of raster graphics is that when enlarged their pixels grow larger and the limit of their resolution is retained. When vector graphics are enlarged beyond their precision the lack of accuracy may not be obvious to viewers. Does SVG have a "fuzzy line" type? (SEWilco 04:50, 16 December 2006 (UTC))

Pioneer 10 plaque

I'm a fan of SVG, but also believe that every image format has its place. For example, the accompanying featured picture of a famous plaque should never be replaced by an SVG "reproduction". Yet I once had to fight off someone trying to do just that. An analogy would be changing the spelling or punctuation of an excerpt from a Shakespeare folio of Hamlet. That said, government mapping agencies seem satisfied to switch over to vector formats instead of rasters, so (except for historical reproductions) it's hard to argue that Wikipedia should not.

I hesitate to say this (because of beans), but an SVG file can include a raster image. Thus we can have a composite image, part raster and part vector. Full SVG also includes image processing (like Gaussian blurs) and even 3D lighting effects, but the pitiful ripper adopted by Wikipedia omits these. --KSmrq^T 01:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Range Maps?

Are there standards for the range maps in the taxa-boxes for animals? I've started making a few and have been using the various versions of the classic gray on white svg maps as a base. But there are lots of different types floating around out there. If there is already a discussion about this, please point me to it. Thanks. --Cody.Pope 21:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I tryed to set up one there Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Maps Yug (talk) 15:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The Graphic Lab and the WikiProject Maps

Hello, I builded a Graphic lab/Maps which appear to be redundant with the WikiProject Maps. But, I think they are good points in both.

• WikiProject Maps :

1. you were the first
2. you have a team, and you have the expertise
3. you already set up a standart palette of color
4. you are the most able to improve the carthographic norms on wikipedia.

• Graphic Lab and Graphic Lab/Maps

1. it is more attractive because...
2. ...it is more visual (Graphic Lab/Maps & Graphic Lab/Images to improve)
3. ...it is more simple

I encourage you to simplified your wikiproject pages, like the Graphic lab did. Take all the best ideas, and then set up a redirect.

Main page-Maps-Images

.

Yug (talk) 15:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)