Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Piracy/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Atacked ships

Hi, I have been working on List of ships attacked by Somali pirates for some time. I hope to compile lists for other acts of piracy. There are stub articles for each year with almost no information on them and I intend to expand these individually. This is an overwhelming task so I would welcome any assistance. -- Cat ^chi? 18:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

What kind of help are you looking for? - Adolphus79 (talk) 02:37, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Project update / cleanup / work...

I was looking at our projects main page just now, and was thinking it could use some updating... I was thinking about the following changes:

• Goals - Make a nice clean list of the project's goals (see the list of goals that I originally wrote for WikiProject The Simpsons for an idea of what I'm talking about)...
• Parentage & Descendant WikiProjects - Parentage does not specifically mean just the history of our project, but also our "parent" projects... we should figure out exactly what our parentage is (as well as cleanup the history snippet a little)...
• Formatting - our articles should follow the Manual of Style no matter what, no exceptions... formatting should be an important part of each of our articles, as that is an important part in assessment... whether we follow the standard MoS, or decide to modify it for our own uses, we should focus on a nice uniform format (all the biographies looking the same, nicely organized lists, etc.)
• Scope - we need to clarify this a little, maybe just organize how it is worded and cleanp the prose a little...
• Guidelines - We have no guidelines? Why not? We should... exactly what constitutes whether a person is a pirate or privateer? What is the definition of participant (as far as the project goes)? etc...
• Participants - Go ahead and seperate active, semi-active, and inactive editors (as discussed before)... not based solely on their Wikipedia edits & activity in general, but based on their work within the scope of this Project...
• Articles - Organize the articles section, maybe remove the redundant missing articles list (we could just transclude Wikipedia:WikiProject Piracy/Wanted articles), stuff like that...
• General cleanup - Just go through and copyedit the page as a whole, making the text flow a little smoother... maybe even some fancy formatting here and there (tables, etc.)... remove the parts of the boilerplate project page that we don't use (collaberations, etc.)

I think if we clean up and organize the project, it will be a lot easier to keep up on the articles that we cover... make this page more user-friendly, where those of us in the project can find the information we're looking for, and people new to the project can quickly and easily gain an idea of what's going on... after the Project page gets cleaned up, then we can start focusing on other things, like article assessment, templates, transclusions, etc...

First, though, we need to figure out what to do with the above... those who are active (I don't know who all is active at the moment) need to discuss these changes and ideas here, then we can make the changes on the main page... What does anyone else think of this? Any other ideas to be added to the above list? Any volunteers for specific jobs? Discuss amongst yourselves... and don't worry, this isn't something that happens overnight, we will work on it over time (as I did with WikiProject The Simpsons)... - Adolphus79 (talk) 03:12, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

With no activity or comments from anyone else, I've started making minor changes here and there... just trying to organize the project and articles, and cleanup the projectspace and make it a little more efficient... if anyone ever does check in, feel free to leave comments... - Adolphus79 (talk) 06:22, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group

Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot (Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 06:17, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Do we have a coordinator? - Adolphus79 (talk) 15:45, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts

This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the display=none parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

Message sent by User:Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:33, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

New Somali Pirates Event

I'm not sure if this is where the project members would like this, but I haven't seen an article or update on the most recent pirate attack on a Japanese ship off the Somali coast. Anyone on this? TeamZissou (talk) 18:54, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Is it notable enough for it's own article, or does it belong on WikiNews? (see WP:NOTNEWS...) - Adolphus79 (talk) 19:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

It looks like it was added to the list of attacks article, I guess that's good enough for it as it wasn't particularly notable Observer31 (talk) 21:58, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Pirate Ship

is being discussed at here, if a member of the project would like to comment. Benea (talk) 22:14, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Current event: Somali pirates capture German owned ship

The Comcast website has a story about a German owned, Maltese flagged ship taken by pirates off Somalia:

Piracy off Somalia--DThomsen8 (talk) 14:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikiproject advert

Howdy. I've removed adverts for this wikiproject (Template:Piracy) from a handful of articles. While I love the project (who doesn't like a good aaah-haaargh every so often), and in particular the great quality articles coming from it, WikiProjects are part of the 'plumbing' that underlies the main encyclopaedia and as such shouldn't form part of it unless they themselves become encyclopaedic. CHeers. - TB (talk) 12:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

It appears that an IP editor mistakenly (AGF) added that template to a number of articles... that template should not be used in article space, only in user talk space... - Adolphus79 (talk) 17:27, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Treasure Island GAR notice

I have conducted a reassessment of the article as part of the GA sweeps process. The article needs some work to meet WP:GAC so has been delisted. You can find details of issues that need addressing at Talk:Treasure Island/GA1. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 00:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Arrr...

Arrr... a cheer to all you scurvey slags, this fanciful day! - Adolphus79 (talk) 18:44, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Privateering project?

I stomp in, slam down my tankard on the wooden table, and like Robert Surcouf DEFY all twelve armed drunken soldiers here to say why there ought not to be a privateering project, instead of just pirates? Pirates were not romantic colorful handsome attractive and sexy in a bizarrely effeminate way, like Johnny Depp. They were filthy diseased louse-ridden toothless murdering raping stealing wretches. Not good role models. Privateers on the other hand swashbuckled just as much--more so in fact, since they didn't have to run from the authorities, didn't risk a hanging if captured (usually) and often would stand and fight and not skulk away if the odds were against them. Granted some like William Kidd or Harry Morgan or Luke Ryan or the Lafitte brothers crossed the line on occasion, but most privateers would be insulted if you called them pirates. We need a privateering project, maybe to convert this one--and HANG the pirates from the nearest dangling participle.FrederickFolger (talk) 19:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Privateering should indeed be covered by a Project, and I see no reason whatsoever why it shoulldn't be covered by THIS project. In fact, given this project's recent struggles to sustain itself, anything that broadens its remit is a good thing. The question should surely be: in a merged privacy AND privateering project, does the name need to change?Metabaronic (talk) 08:44, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Well. In six months, one reply. All the pirates are too groggy to speak? Talk about a long hangover. Bringing in privateers does have this drawback: the emblem of this project is a skull and crossbones flag. I note historically pirates usually sailed under false colors, this country or that. When the time came they'd hoist a simple red flag, solid red, blood colored, to signify "surrender or we give no quarter." But the skull and crossbones, the Jolly Roger? Edward England and John Taylor, maybe; none of the others used that. And no privateer ever did. Even if sailing under a false flag, a privateer had to haul it down and hoist his true colors before firing the first cannon. Or risk forfeiting the prize. So. Privateers may not be over-eager to find themselves identified with this lazy drunk dissolute skull and crossbones riffraff. FrederickFolger ⚓^(talk) 19:11, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

One man's privateer is another man's pirate. And a fair few pirates covered by this project would have at various tiems called themselves privateers or even innocent seafarers. :) That sets the scope of this prohject pretty wide, but I reckon privateers should be in. Euryalus (talk) 23:49, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Have you got a plank ready?

Because Dropbuiltdoes (talk · contribs) may be in need of a walk along it! Seriously, he's been tagging articles with this WP, but using code that marks the article as A class and top importance. Would members from this WP please check his contributions and make the necessary corrections. Mjroots (talk) 07:52, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

The tagging is of very tangential articles, and based on reasoning such as this. I admire the enthusiasm, but think its created an article list that is both unwieldy and not directly related to piracy. Captain Hook, for example, is correctly tagged as a piracy article, but Hook is not (even though so tagged). Also, the tagged articles are not all of top importance, or A-class. Will correct these review comments as I go.

I've removed the tags from some articles per WP:BRD, but would welcome any discussion and/or contrary opinions on the ones I've done. A list of removed tags will be posted here soon, or can be seen in the interim here. Euryalus (talk) 00:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

OK. Removed the project tag from Cannon, Julius Caesar, Alcohol and Sailing. Left the tag on Doubloon, Treasure, and Cutlass because the article content contains substantial pirate references, but reassessed as other than “Top” importance. Also reassessed some of the pirate-themed computer game pages – they’re pirate-related articles but they are hardly of the same importance as, say, Blackbeard. Comments, disagreements welcome. Euryalus (talk) 01:07, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

List of ships attacked by Somali pirates

It has been proposed to split this 176k long list into four lists. Comments at the talk page please. Mjroots (talk) 09:32, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Signpost report?

Is this project still active? If enough editors are interested, we could fulfill the project's request for a WikiProject Report in the Signpost. Please respond if you would like to participate. -Mabeenot (talk) 01:02, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Piracy articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Piracy articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:28, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

US Piracy trial

I heard on the news that the first US piracy trial in over a century is commencing. Details, please!--DThomsen8 (talk) 12:40, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

You misheard slightly. The first piracy trial in the USA in 100 years just wrapped up (the accused was found guilty and sentenced). We have an article on it here. Another piracy trial in the USA has just started as 14 pirates were indited on March 11 in a court in Virginia [1]. It doesn't appear that we have an article on that yet, though I think an article on the SY Quest incident could stand to be created. i.m.canadian (talk) 16:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Wokou

Wokou is requested to be renamed, see Talk:Wokou. 65.94.47.63 (talk) 05:56, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

To be a bit more precise, there is an ongoing rename discussion at Talk:Wokou as to whether the article should be renamed from "Wokou" to "Wako". If you are familiar with the topic, feel free to join the discussion. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Turgut

Hi, everyone. When you have time, could you control this attempt (Turgut Reis) ? Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello

I've been doing some work for the project in recent weeks. This included reorganizing the "Requested articles" list and contributing missing (i.e. "red linked") names on List of pirates. I wrote Francis Verney via AFC, however, my other submissions have since been rejected. I didn't have time to do hard research for these biographies, using sources listed on the main "List of pirates" article, but I did find Dutch-language books which looks to have substansial material on these men. One editor claimed the main cited reference I used, M. Bruyneel's Isle of Tortuga, was an unreliable source. A second editor removed an in-line citation and, oddly enough, rejected the article for having no in-line citation. I'm not going to argue the point but if someone wants to add to these biographies here are the links. Someone should also de-link the names from the "List of pirates" article.

• Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jan Marinus van Sommelsdijk
• Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Meinart Dircxsen
• Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Filips van Zuylen
• Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Jacob Janssen van den Bergh

71.184.38.227 (talk) 04:25, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Henry Every

The Henry Every article seems very thorough and well-cited. Perhaps we can make a push to good article status? --50.46.252.252 (talk) 00:05, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Split proposal for Piracy in Somalia

This is a notification that I've proposed a split of Piracy in Somalia. Please see Talk:Piracy in Somalia#Split for details and to voice your opinion. Thanks, BDD (talk) 21:57, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

TAFI

Hello, Please note that Adventure Galley, which is within this project's scope, has been selected to become a Today's Article for Improvement. The article is currently in the TAFI Holding Area, where comments are welcome about ideas to improve it. After the article is moved from the holding area to the TAFI schedule, it will appear on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Today's Article for Improvement" section for one week. Everyone is invited to participate in the discussion and encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thank you, TheOriginalSoni (talk) 07:41, 27 January 2013 (UTC) (From the TAFI team)

Wokou

There's a dispute at Wokou (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and Talk:Wokou, that was brought up at WT:JAPAN. -- 70.24.250.103 (talk) 06:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Proposed removal of "Importance" categorisation in Assessments

Returning to WP:YAR after a couple of year's break, I'm struck by how arbitrary the "importance" categories are in the Assessment process. A project like this that covers millennia, continents and some of the world's most enduring myths, sayings and folklore, cannot be easily rated in terms of the importance of every article. And while the article quality can be objectively assessed, the importance ratings tend to be exact mirrors of what other projects have rated them as, which is a nonsense in the specific context of piracy.

I propose to follow the lead of WP:SHIPS and remove article "importance" from the WP talkpage tags, leaving only the quality scale. I doubt this will diminish any readers' understanding or exploration of articles in the project, and will address the current arbitrary assessment processes.

Other views welcome as always. Euryalus (talk) 11:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Done. Not Done as I'm too rusty on template use and don't want to risk error across that many pages. Will read up and try again at a later date. Euryalus (talk) 04:31, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

About the tally of "captures"

I have been reading some of the pirate biographies while working on a related page. During the course of this project, I noticed that when a certain captain commanded a pirate fleet, the total number of ships captured that is attributed to him seems to actually be the combination of those that he captured directly and the ones that other ships in his fleet captured. This is ambiguous, because some of these pirate captains actually employed pirates that went on to become infamous by themselves. Yet the credit of the captures seems to always go to the "one in charge" at the moment. Should we differentiate (or at least clarify) the ones actually captured by the captain's flagship from the ones that were captured by his other ships? - Caribbean~H.Q. 07:09, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

"Mark Read"

The usage of Mark Read (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is under discussion, see talk:Mark Read (singer) -- 70.24.244.161 (talk) 06:57, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Piracy At Wikimania 2014

Are you looking to recruit more contributors to your project?
We are offering to design and print physical paper leaflets to be distributed at Wikimania 2014 for all projects that apply.
For more information, click the link below.
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Discussion relevant to this project

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Piracy Oiyarbepsy (talk) 14:52, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Piracy in Somalia move discussion

Hi. There's a discussion taking place here about whether to move and rename Piracy in Somalia. The discussion partly concerns consistency of naming of articles on piracy, so input from editors involved in this project would be welcome. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:42, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Ahoy there (again)! Another move discussion is now taking place about this article, following a failure to reach consensus on the previously suggested move. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Category:Pirate hunters

Should be created. We have categories for the other two types, "pirates" and "privateers", but we are missing the third player. 24.41.138.145 (talk) 00:43, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

German pirates needs expansion

[[Category:German pirates]] only lists 8 pirates. Would be nice to see an expansion. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 18:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

German pirates needs expansion

[[Category:German pirates]] only lists 8 pirates. Would be nice to see an expansion. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 18:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Factual issues with Forbes' "Top Earning Pirates"

This piece by Matt Woosley is being given a lot of prominence in some of our articles, in particular in the quantification of the wealth of these pirates. However, there are clearly some issues with the certainty that the author lists the subjects, even when the currency conversion was more or less accurate (in 2008 USD). First of all, it is completely missing Henry Every, whose Ganj-i-Sawai heist would certainly place him at or near the top of the list. Second, it is way too anglo centric. Within the Wikipedia biographies that have a "wealth" cited, there are at least two Caribbean-based pirates that would make an accurate "Top (20)Earning Pirates" list.

The first is Miguel Enríquez, whose 500,000 peso fortune would translate to 150-160 million today, which is more than any of the pirates listed by Woosley (who includes Drake, a fellow privateer). The 4,000 pesos cited in Roberto Cofresí would be around 4 million, meaning that even the remnants of his fortune would place him within the top earning pirates if the figures in that list are accurate. There are others that do not have a cited "wealth", but who surely earned more that a million, such as Samuel Hall Lord and Jean Lafitte, who are nowhere to be found in Woolsey's article.

Due to these issues, I think that we should avoid saying "#[1-20] Forbes' top-earning pirate" in the lead of the biographies. We can certainly keep their conversions, but unless they are willing to publish an updated list, we should avoid repeating the order that Woolsey is pushing due to the aforementioned omissions (and those we are likely missing in biographies without cited "wealth"). With talk like a pirate day upcoming, they may be interested in doing so if we contact them. 107.77.216.100 (talk) 10:41, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello, Please note that Spanish West Indies, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article was scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:06, 22 August 2016 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject

The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template {{Transclude lead excerpt}}.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background

On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you.    — The Transhumanist   07:51, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Notice of Move Request

At Capture of the Anne. See here for discussion - wolf 02:26, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!

A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.

– Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

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