Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics/Political parties/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Looking for Online Ambassadors with an interest in US Political Parties

Hi folks. I wanted to let you know that the Wikipedia Ambassador Program is working with a class on U.S. political parties and the development of the party system (and some other politics courses as well), and it'd be great to have some Wikipedians with interest in the area to support the class as Online Ambassadors. If you're interested, let me know.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:35, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Requesting an assessment

I want to have the article Progressive Party (Philippines) reassessed since I have made major revisions to the article since its last assessment. Where can I formally make this request? -The Mask (talk) 11:45, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Kiefer.Wolfowitz

Your input is sought at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Kiefer.Wolfowitz --Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:31, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Can i join NPP

I am from nothern region-west gonja district-Damongo and i want to join NPP as my party.What will be my procedure? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.84.1.23 (talk) 13:47, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Template broken since 2008...

May I direct your attention to Template_talk:WikiProject_Political_parties? The importance parameter is currently broken and seems broken since 2008...--Oneiros (talk) 21:48, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Parties and movements

I suggest that a category level of Category:Fascist movements be created as a parent to Category:Fascist parties, as the latter currently holds various members that were not parties. However, would that create difficulties or go against precedents for categorising political parties/movements? – Fayenatic London 10:16, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

In the absence of a reply, and having looked within Category:Political movements, I don't think there will be any problem, so I'm going ahead with creating this. – Fayenatic London 15:42, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Ideology issues

One of the most common problems I've seen across party articles is the definition of a party's ideology, especially when it comes to the pro forma infobox. On numerous articles users, especially anon ISPs, repeatedly edit war over what a party's ideology is with everything from the party constitution to the voting record of members in a parliament to the election manifesto to what journalists use to even the user's own opinions of what a particular ideology is being cited. A lot of this is dangerously close to original research but there doesn't seem any way to settle the problem except on the articles with the highest profile where sheer weight of exhausted numbers is the main force. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:47, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I advise using reliable, external, preferably academic sources. They often specify in one or two words which ideology parties have. For major Western European parties I find the discussions in Gallagher, Laver and Mair (2001) Representative Government in Modern Europe very useful. Other good sources are country studies such as (for the Netherlands) Koole (1992) Politieke Partijen en Partijenstelsel in Nederland or Andeweg and Irwin (2002) Politics and Governance in the Netherlands. For most (advanced industrialized democratic) countries there are volumes like this. Though perhaps a bit old Von Beyme's (1984) Political Parties in Western Europe can very useful. He did major work in studying and classifying party ideologie (see Institutionalism in political parties). C mon (talk) 21:53, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

C mon won't agree, but see also Parties and Elections in Europe, the most complete comparative study of European parties available in the Internet. --Checco (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Use of any sources other than a party's constitution is a critical evaluation and automatically carries a certain degree of bias. Every party should have a section on critical evaluation from outside, but its ideology cannot be identified by anyone except its constitution. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:22, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Protestant Coalition: far right?

User:Kezzer16 objects to the infobox describing Protestant Coalition as far right, a label that had been there for some time. I think it should stay, but I haven't attended to this to well and accept the current article needs work. (My apologies to Kezzer: I should have brought this to a Talk page sooner.)

Could project members help resolve this disagreement and offer any edits or advice on the page? Bondegezou (talk) 21:49, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

POV pushing from an anonymous IP editor?

Would someone from WikiProject Politics/Political parties please take a look at Special:Contributions/87.20.216.198 for 2014-08-27. This IP editor made 27 edits to 21 articles & 1 template, all of them concerning political parties. I think that there may have been some subtle but extensive WP:POVPUSH, but it is beyond my expertise. Peaceray (talk) 07:53, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention

This is a notice about Category:Politics/Political parties articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 22:51, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention

This is a notice about Category:Political parties articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 23:06, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

ongoing AFDs on UK political parties

There are about 14 simultaneous AFDs about UK political parties going on:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/4 Freedoms Party (UK EPP)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Britannica Party (3rd nomination)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Countryside Party (UK)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fishing Party (Scotland)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Free England Party
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Libertarian Party (UK) (5th nomination)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miss Great Britain Party
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New Nationalist Party (UK)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roman Party
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Common Good (political party)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patriotic Socialist Party (2nd nomination) (already deleted and closed)

• For this one the list-item notability of the Patriotic Socialist Party has been disputed, with deletion of its entry in the List of UK political parties by this edit.

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Independent Green Voice
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scottish Democratic Alliance
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yorkshire First

You may consider participating. --doncram 20:04, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Coalition of Left, of Movements and Ecology listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Coalition of Left, of Movements and Ecology to be moved to Synaspismos. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:31, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

{{Communist Party (UK)/meta/shortname}}

template:Communist Party (UK)/meta/shortname has been proposed to be renamed to {{Communist Party (Great Britain)}}, see template talk:Communist Party (UK)/meta/shortname -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 06:12, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

MUSLIM LEAGUE

Pakistan was created in 1947. West Pakistan & East Pakistan( now Bangla Dash) With the policies of West Pakistan< we last East Pakistan. It is History and no body can do anything about it. I am happy about our Ex Pakistanis. It was Muslim League party who fought for the creation of Pakistan, a separate home land for Muslims. Now some Pakistani leaders think that they are the favorite sons of Muslim League, thus there are countless Muslim Leagues in Pakistan. May I ask those Politicians, Who are you to divide and miss use the name of Muslim League. 86.1.85.223 (talk) 17:22, 18 October 2015 (UTC)SHAME ON YOU

Single-party state

User:Cybercobra has added Category:Single-party states to a bunch of countries. The category relates to Single-party state, which is almost entirely unsourced. For some of the countries - eg East Germany - the categorisation is problematic (it's not "Category:De Facto Single-party State"). Can someone comment or help out in dealing with the issue? cheers, Rd232 ^talk 10:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Went back, double-checked, and removed it from entries where the "single party" status is not mentioned by name in the country's article. --Cybercobra (talk) 10:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks, that helps, but the definitional issue for category and article still needs attention. cheers, Rd232 ^talk 14:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The category includes all country articles which explicitly identify the country as a "single-party state"; what more needs defining? If you have a problem, I'd say take it to the country articles you disagree with or to single-party state itself; if articles are changed to no longer say "single-party state", then they no longer belong in the category. The definition of the category is solid; the definition of the term, possibly less so. --Cybercobra (talk) 20:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

TherapyCat (talk) 18:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)User TherapyCat here. The following long sentence (3rd sentence under Concepts) is incoherent grammatically and not intelligible. Someone (the author?) needs to rewrite it. >"The Marxist theory states that political parties represent the interests, most of which, in a liberal system, respond to the economic power and are part of the system (the superstructure) where whoever wins there will be no substantial changes, once abolished class distinctions no place for the struggle for multiparty own economic interests, however, an organization that is able to formulate national policies and manage their reins to ensure the development of socialism is necessary, this organization is the only party to be the only existing single social class and the common interest of progress.[clarification needed]"< I also noticed that the key for the chart showing forms of government does not display the yellow and blue bars unless you click through to get more details. The key should be readable on the main page.

Green Party of England and Wales

There is currently an ongoing discussion surrounding wording and tone issues with the Green Party of England and Wales Please feel free to joining the discussions here. This will help to contribute to the general clean up of the article and improve the article. Sport and politics (talk) 06:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Adding percentage including those that did not vote

Why percentage which included those that didn't show up, is not the sort of thing that is reported ? It is understandable that politicians don't like it, but an encyclopedia should give a broader picture. Or not ? --Robertiki (talk) 05:27, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

New Wikiproject!

A few weeks ago, WikiProject Green Politics was born. The project's goal is to collaborate on articles relating to green politics and green political parties. We hope you can join us! At the moment, we are discussing a few things, including the target article of the month for March. Me-123567-Me (talk) 18:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Proposal for the infobox of italian parties

Hi, I have started a discussion (here) about the conditions of admission for the template of italian parties and particularly I have also proposed to insert the number of regional councillors in the infobox of italian parties. This proposal has been rejected by 2 users, but their reasons, in my view, are not so valid. If anyone is interested can join the discussion --Wololoo (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

RfC

The RfC located here may be of interest to members of this project. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:30, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Popular pages report

We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, Community Tech bot will post at Wikipedia:WikiProject Politics/Political parties/Archive 2/Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject Politics.

We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:

• The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
• The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
• The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to Mr.Z-man for his original Mr.Z-bot, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject Politics, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Election box for Momentum

A discussion is currently taking place about the election box for Momentum. --The Vintage Feminist (talk) 12:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Korean political parties

Four redirects related to Korean political parties have been nominated at RfD in the last two days. Your input to the discussions listed below is invited:

• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 8#Korean United Party
• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 9#Korean People's Party
• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 9#People's Party of South Korea
• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 9#United Future Party of Korea

Thryduulf (talk) 12:51, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review

I've currently opened a peer review for Indian National Congress . I think the article meets the GA criteria and I'm thinking about nominating it as a GA candidate. It would be helpful if other editors could comment on the article and/or offer suggestions, etc. Thanks.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 07:22, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Template question

{{MRN party}} displays the political party National Regeneration Movement (MORENA) as "MRN", which is an acronym not actually used in Mexico. Would it violate any standard guides to have this template instead read "MORENA" or "Morena"? Raymie (t • c) 04:29, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

RFC at Communist Party of China

I've started an RFC about the infobox contents at Communist Party of China please feel free to comment. Simonm223 (talk) 12:04, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party

Talk:Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party/Archive 7#RfC: Inclusion of expert opinions, views of pundits, activist groups, tweets, etc. may be of interest to project followers.Icewhiz (talk) 15:25, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Template:PolParsEstCat

I think this template is problematic. I recently used it to create this category and I think its categorization is all wrong.

This how it is currently categorized:

• Category:1843 establishments
• Category:Political parties established in the 19th century
• Category:1843 in politics
• Category:Organizations established in 1843

This is how I think it should be categorized:

• Category:1843 in politics
• Category:Organizations established in 1843
• Category:Political parties by year of establishment
• Category:Political parties established in the 1840s

I also think a similar templates should be created for political parties established in decades and in centuries and for political parties disestablished in years, in decades and in centuries. Charles Essie (talk) 21:00, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

RfC

Talk:Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party/Archive 9#RfC: Stamford Hill may be of interest to this project.Icewhiz (talk) 13:33, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Discussion on Antony Lerman of openDemocracy at the reliable sources noticeboard

There is a discussion on the reliability of Antony Lerman of openDemocracy on the reliable sources noticeboard with respect to the Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party article. If you are interested, please participate at WP:RSN § Antony Lerman at openDemocracy. — Newslinger talk 03:39, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Scope

The task force Scope section reads: Emphasizing consistency, global perspective, and neutrality, this task force aims to create good articles about political parties worldwide.

This doesn't seem to be limited to articles about parties themselves. Alexander Hamilton, for example, seems to've been tagged | for years. Presumably this would've been changed by now if it wasn't appropriate.

So what exactly falls under the scope of the project?

How about US party committees? The Republican National Committee is marked as part of the project, but not the Democratic National Committee. Neither of their conventions are.

What about other organizations directly tied to a party, like youth wings? Or factions within parties? (Would it matter whether or not a faction is somehow formally established?)

International organizations of parties, like the Socialist International?

—Languorrises (talk) 17:11, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Problem with political party templates that use <nowiki> and {{Graph:Chart}}

Hello. There is a compatibility problem between many (all?) of these political party colour templates and {{Graph:Chart}}. Please see Template talk:Graph:Chart#Problem with <nowiki> and this template. 202.159.169.45 (talk) 03:12, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Deletion discussion

This deletion discussion might be of interest to people here: wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Queerly_Bohemian/Userboxes/FreedomFighters.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 17:30, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Gender ratio on legislature infobox template

I've left a comment on the Infobox template for legislatures, regarding adding a parameter on gender representation, which might be of interest to project participants. --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:23, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

National Rally (France)

Members of this project may be interested in this discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Generation of Independence Party

Could somebody look at Draft:Generation of Independence Party? I don't know what our standards are for political parties, but it seems to me that a party that got 0.5% of the vote in an unrecognized republic is probably not notable. I do note that we cover quite a few minor parties in Artsakh, so I seek more expert opinion. -- RoySmith (talk) 16:50, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Political parties style guide

Do we have a general style guide for political parties? I think we should if we don't have one already. Many party pages end up being a mess of battleground edits by supporters and detractors. We could rein in this issue by having a standard for pages about political parties. For example, many fringe parties I check out have long winded pages breaking down every single election result for every election they have ever contested, criticism sections, relationship to other parties sections, weasely descriptions of their political position etc. whereas mainstream parties generally have fairly straight forward pages, with ideology, history, electoral highlights/overview - probably due to more editors working on the mainstream pages, more established histories and thus more sources being available. If we don't have a guideline for party pages, I propose creating one that gives guidance for what kinds of info should and shouldn't be presented and how it should be presented (ie summarise election results, no criticism sections etc.). Bacondrum (talk) 02:06, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

RFC

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I've been looking at a lot of political party pages and they lack consistency in terms of style and many read like they've been a POV battleground (I believe this is due to the inherently partisan nature of such subjects) I propose creating a style guide for party pages. Bacondrum (talk) 23:27, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

• Suggestion We have a basic political party page layout:

Lede - History - Ideology - political position - Voter base - Organisation - Election results - Party leaders - See also - Notes and references - External links

- WP:Criticism Discourage "criticism" sections and "relationships to other parties" sections

- WP:Accuracy Discourage having multiple political positions ie "The party is described variously as right-wing,[22][23] right-wing populist,[24][25] populist radical right[26] and/or far-right.[15][27][28][29][30]. Same with the info box, accurate descriptions rather than "Political position - Right-wing[19] to far-right[20]". I see this kind of dogs breakfast of positions a lot.

- Style guide would include info boxes. Bacondrum (talk) 23:37, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

So if different sources describe a party differently what are you suggesting people do? Giving a range like "right-wing to far-right" in the infobox seems useful and appropriate to me. The proposed layout doesn't seem bad as a guideline – the first two parties that popped into my head pretty much match it already. Could you give some examples of the kind of articles you think would benefit from this? ─ ReconditeRodent « talk · contribs » 17:42, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Merging sources is original research. If there's enough material for an article, there will almost certainly be a majority description, we should go with the majority view. Bacondrum (talk) 21:39, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

• I suggest the simpler but more widely usable approach of collecting of guidance and standards into an essay for eventually moving towards WP:Political guidance, rather than trying a mandated outline template. There isn’t a stated issue that would suffice to justify the massive work to remake every article or even a few dozen like the Labour party (UK), Bloc Québécois, Green party and such. Also, the POV battleground seems to often be done at a candidate page (whitewashed or tarred) or an event page so regulating the party page isn’t a block. I also think propaganda cannot and should not be excluded as it is the bulk of sources for any contended area and a large part of the party activities - coverage of it just needs to be more guided. Some candidate for guidance might include:

• simply urging stronger attention to NPOV for politic articles, have criticism show views in a diversity of sources (left and right and distant coverage) rather than favoring POV and especially not favoring a single source.
• urge attention to WEIGHT, to avoid over-emphasis of some minor talking point.
• urge restraint of RECENTISM, to avoid the story-du-jour or incomplete pictures and favor items of enduring attention.
• urge restraint of TRIVIA, favoring larger and enduring matters, trying to avoid trivia or personal nits
• urge attention to OFFTOPIC, valuing factual events over the common media attention for the inflammatory instead of informative — deprecate the GOSSIP and controversy and conflict and emphasize NOTNEWS
• place greater RS credibility to cites that pre-date the person’s campaign or post-date the issue.
• urge restraint and avoiding covering ongoing events to include the period just before an election. Even for significant current events, avoid anything beyond simply noting the current election or current event exists as even the simplest adjective is going to be a battleground invitation.
• point editors to TALK over issues, noting the common recommendations for such - things like CIVIL and talk WPpolicy not editor conduct, and dispute resolution
• recommend putting things in categories as politics or contentious where appropriate, and favor tag CN or disputed rather than deletion EDITWAR, and dispute resolution (for policy points more than who-wins usage)

Cheers Markbassett (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Markbasset Great suggestion, thank you. How does one go about creating such a thing?

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shortlived politics party splits

Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to handle cases of parties splitting for a time and then reunifying some years later? Often these can be quite messy with both sides carrying at least some of the national and/or regional apparatus and this can make all manner of tables very confusing as to what they link to. Sometimes we seem to suspend the overall party and link to articles on separate factions, at other times we seem to pick one side as continuity and the other as a breakaway and in one Australian case we have a split in a party within one state handled in a federal election by linking one side to the federal party and the other to the state party. And worse still we sometimes get a messy mix of articles with groups presented in one place as the mainstream continuing party and another as a faction.

Examples that spring to mind include the US Democrats in 1860 and 1948, the UK Liberals in 1916-1923, the Western Australian Nationals in 1976-1984/5 but I'm sure there are many others. Timrollpickering (talk) 22:07, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I reckon the best way to treat these kinds of political anabranches is within the parent party article. If they don't rejoin the parent party then that's a proper split and the split becomes a new party. Failing that temporary splits are just a part of the history of the parent party, IMO. Bacondrum (talk) 23:01, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Editor attempting standard layout changes

An editor is claiming that we should not have one political position "to" another in infobox's anymore and is removing to only leave one position. This is common formatting across political party infobox's on Wikipedia and I think we need a general overall consensus before editors go around making changes like this. Please see Talk:National Rally#Synthesis in infoboxes. Helper201 (talk) 12:11, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

well, it is a synthesis. Bacondrum (talk) 22:49, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

National Rally

There's a debate about weight of sourcing and the position of National Rally. The debate is stale and would benefit from a broader range of contributors. If anyone has the time it would be much appreciated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:National_Rally#Right_wing_populist Bacondrum (talk) 22:52, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Synthesis

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

If one reliable source says a party is A: "right", and another reliable source says they are B: "far-right" and we join A and B together to imply a conclusion C: "right to far right" that is not mentioned by either of the sources. Is this an improper editorial WP:SYNTHESIS of published material or WP:OR? Bacondrum (talk) 23:00, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

• No If we say "the party is described as right to far right", that merely is a summarization of existing sources. Furthermore, if sources disagree, it would be incorrect to simply call them right or far-right, and it would be OR for us to choose one descriptor over the other. The same goes for leftist, centrist, and all other kinds of parties. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 02:09, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Isn't a synthesis exactly this "a summarization of existing sources"? Don't we need a reliable source for a claim like "the party is described as right to far right"? If there are contradictory sources, shouldn't we apply WP:WEIGHT rather ignoring WP:SYNTH and making a claim based on merging multiple sources to state something not explicitly stated by any source? When does WP:OR matter? When do we need to use reliable sources? I thought we always needed reliable sources and synthesis was not permitted, am I wrong? Bacondrum (talk) 04:35, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

It is not OR to choose what RS-backed information to include in an article, in this case position on the political spectrum. It is merely an editorial question of applying due weight to the different statements, and as editors we make these decision all the time. ― Hebsen (talk) 07:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

I thought merging sources to make a claim not explicitly made in any source was synthesis or original research, why doesn't that apply here? The positions are wildly different, not more or less one and the same. Bacondrum (talk) 22:38, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

• Yes and No It depends on the context, the overall balance of sources and their relative status and date of publication -----Snowded ^TALK 04:48, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

So we can use multiple sources to reach a conclusion not explicitly stated in any source sometimes? When is a synthesis of sources okay? Bacondrum (talk) 04:57, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

• No. Synthesis in the Wikipedia sense doesn't mean summarising a range of opinions/descriptions. The political spectrum is a spectrum, and one which can't be objectively quantified. Treating overlapping descriptive terms like "right-wing" and "far-right" as separate, entirely self-contained categories is impossible, and independent sources won't stick to identical usage. I wonder if part of the problem is that "right" and "far-right" in particular have different connotations to you and so don't feel adjacent? ─ ReconditeRodent « talk · contribs » 11:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Indeed, they are significantly different things, right wing being mainstream and far-right being on the extreme fringe. My main issue is that no source makes such a claim, same applies to claims of a position going left to far left, these are radically different positions it's like we're are saying their political position is anywhere from that of the Republican Party to The National Socialist German Workers' Party This seems a massively contradictory statement to make without any sources that connect these wildly divergent ideologies explicitly. Surely applying WP:WEIGHT should resolve most sourcing issues. Bacondrum (talk) 22:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

• No, mainly from a practical perspective. The phrasing "right-wing to far-right" (an example) is the best way to sum up "some sources describe it as right-wing, and some sources describe it as far-right", when such information is to be presented in an infobox. When sources are split on the issue, it is way better to use this construction than forcing oneself to pick a single political position. I understand why this is brought up, but the question is partially mitigated by the fact that the political position typically are sourced, e.g. "right-wing[1][2] to far-right[3][4]", as this highlights that different sources say different things. ― Hebsen (talk) 07:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. I still can't get my head around it not being a novel synthesis. When we say for example left to far left it is like comparing the politics of Barak Obama to the politics of Abimael Guzmán. Left to far-left would pretty much cover the entire gamut of left wing politics from the mainstream to the fringe. Surely we need a source explicitly stating as much in order for us to make such a claim? Bacondrum (talk) 22:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

• Comment I think the deeper problem is that too many articles use casual RSes for political positions and often include what is really a passing comment in a general piece or a piece of commentary when there really needs to be a higher standard of consistency of looking to how reliable political scientists classify parties as. I suspect a lot of these debates would evaporate if there was a clearer standard enforced. Timrollpickering (talk) 23:07, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Very good point, I often find these wildly divergent A to B spectrum classification are due to one or two flimsy news sources being introduced that contradict much stronger academic sourcing or wider news reportage. Bacondrum (talk) 23:44, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Probably Not: While I can imagine cases where that would be WP:SYNTH, overall this seems like a clear case of WP:NOTJUSTANYSYNTH (as well as "SYNTH is not just juxtaposition" from the same page). Loki (talk) 23:14, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

But I can't see how it's merely a juxtaposition in the case of political positions that are so divergent. Seems more a novel thesis than a juxtaposition, that we go from sources saying A and B to C=A+B thus placing the parties politcal position across the entire left or right spectrum when no reliable source has actually done so. Bacondrum (talk) 23:44, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

But it's not C=A+B, it's just A and also B. If we had a source that said the sky is blue, and another source that said the sky is red, we couldn't say the sky is purple without SYNTH. But we could definitely say the sky is "blue to red". Loki (talk) 04:55, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

But the sky is blue, lol. Thanks, that makes sense. Thanks for your patience.

• No assuming that the sources in question are reliable, and that the array of sources justifies roughly equal weight to the two labels, we're not drawing a new conclusion not stated in sources, we're stating the conclusions expressed in sources. The concern that we're conflating the Republican Party with the NSDAP or Barack Obama with Abimael Guzman is a bit of a red herring: if linking a centrist party to a far-left or far-right position is outlandish, then RS won't call them far-left or far-right. An example of actually problematic synthesis would be, given that Source A says "Party Y is a far-right party" and that Source B says "far-right parties are fascist parties", writing "Party Y is a fascist party". _signed, Rosguill ^talk 03:30, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Right to far-right does seem outlandish hence the examples of contrasting parties and people who hold those positions. What if some reliable sources describe a party as left and other describe it as right, do we then claim party is "left to right"? Doesn't really seem like any more of a stretch. Bacondrum (talk) 03:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

The reason that sounds weird is that it's meaningless. "Left to right" means the party is somewhere on the political spectrum, which isn't something we even need to mention. If a source said they were center-left, and another source said they were center-right, we could definitely say they were "center-left to center-right" (but not "centrist"). Loki (talk) 04:55, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

For some parties, "left to right" may actually be appropriate, particularly if the party contains multiple distinct tendencies across its membership. This isn't unheard of, especially for particularist parties (e.g. Shas) that prioritize representing a particular demographic group rather than an ideology, or big-tent parties that try to unify disparate ideological groups under one banner either for a specific political goal (e.g. opposing a war) or to maintain some degree of diversity in political representation in the governance of a one-party state. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

• another question so I get what is being said now about my concerns regarding synth. If there are multiple claims presented in reliable sources regarding the political position of a party then it's okay to present both even if they are significantly different positions, that would not be original research per se. However, if one claim is cited with a couple of news reports and the other is cited with academic papers from political science journals or some such then the weaker claim would be undue? Bacondrum (talk) 03:50, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

  Probably, but it would come down to the exact context of the claims and sources involved. Another complication is that left- and right- as political descriptors are relative, and can mean different things in different historical contexts or different countries, e.g. the Democrats are generally described as a left-wing party in the US, but are largely politically to the right of many centrist parties elsewhere in the world; German Christian Democrats are generally considered to be right-wing today, but are left when compared to monarchists or fascists; and that's before even considering parties that largely defy the standard left-right binary or parties that have drifted positions over their history. I don't think you're going to find a satisfying answer to this question in the abstract. If there's an applicable lesson to be drawn here, it's that concrete statements about a group's ideology and program (e.g. Marxism, Liberalism, social-conservatism, anti-federalism, etc.) are more meaningful descriptors when summarizing a party's beliefs (although mentions of left- and right- may still be useful when explaining a party's position relative to their contemporary political spectrum) _signed, Rosguill ^talk 19:40, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Rosguill:Thanks for your considered responses. So, if a party's position is contested but we know for certain that they are say green, nationalist, Marxist, protectionist etc. could or would it be better in regard to accuracy to describe their position by their specific or core ideology rather than a vague range across the left-right spectrum? Bacondrum (talk) 23:31, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

@Bacondrum:, I certainly think so, and I think that on the majority of articles we already take this approach. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 23:56, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, that really clears things up for me. Bacondrum (talk) 01:42, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

• No Sources describe x as "y"(source 1) and "z"(source 2") when y and z are on a linear scale is functionally identical to saying "sources describe x as y to z(source 1 source 2), and as such just good writing, not synthesis. Hipocrite (talk) 10:02, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
• No but be very careful when determining what the source is actually saying. There's two different meanings of "right-wing" and "left-wing". The first, more specific usage, is "a place on the spectrum between centre-right and far-right". The second, more general meaning is "the entire right side of the spectrum inclusive of centre-right and far-right". It isn't hard to find a quality source talking about say, "Angela Merkel's grand coalition between her right-wing CDU and the left-wing SPD". That doesn't mean the CDU should be described as a "centre-right to right-wing" party; the author is using the second meaning of the term. --RaiderAspect (talk) 08:11, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notification about an RfC on Infobox Chinese at Democratic Progressive Party

There is an RfC here about whether Democratic Progressive Party should be one of the MOS:CHINA exceptions to including both Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese in the {{Infobox Chinese}}. The participation of interested editors is appreciated. — MarkH₂₁^talk 19:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Category:Politics/Political parties articles needing expert attention has been nominated for discussion

Category:Politics/Political parties articles needing expert attention has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Peaceray (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Splitting discussion for People's Socialist Party, Nepal

An article that been involved with (People's Socialist Party, Nepal ) has content that is proposed to be removed and moved to another article (2021 split of the People's Socialist Party, Nepal). If you are interested, please visit the discussion. Thank you. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:23, 26 July 2021 (UTC). AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:23, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Infobox changes?

A number of US State political parties are having their infobox changed from "American State Political Party" to the (more generic) "political party" which seems contrary to the purpose of having the former. Is there a movement (by this group) to eliminate the former for the latter? Is this someone not understanding the templates? Was there something in particular that did not work about the "American State Political Party" infobox? - Mjquinn_id (talk) 13:50, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Discussion about the new League of Matteo Salvini

Hi everyone. I report a discussion on the talk page of Lega Nord (Talk:Lega Nord/Archive 6#Is Salvini the Secretary?) regarding the transfer of information (from 2020 onwards) to the Lega per Salvini Premier page. From 2020 the only active party in the whole Italian territory is the Lega per Salvini Premier, however currently this page is just a stub. On the other hand, the Northern League is de facto no longer active, so continuing to update the page under that name is wrong. There are two possible options: historicize the Lega Nord page and implement the new Lega per Salvini Premier page (as done in it.wikipedia: it:Lega Nord and it:Lega per Salvini Premier) or merge the two pages under a new name, like "League (Italy)". At the moment there is a slight propensity for the former, but a broader debate would be welcome. Anyone interested is invited to participate.--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 18:16, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal of Lega Nord and Lega per Salvini Premier

Hi all. I invite everyone who is interested to give insight and comments on a merge proposal of Lega Nord and Lega per Salvini Premier. The discussion is at Talk:Lega Nord#Merging Lega per Salvini Premier and Lega Nord. Thanks, Yakme (talk) 09:05, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Left Party (France) far-left claims

The political position section of the Left Party (France) has been changed to far-left with any attempts to change this being reverted. I think the citations being used fall under WP:OPINION (editorials or opinion pieces) or WP:SYNTH due to not directly stating the party itself is far-left but perhaps elements, people or describing its manifesto as this. However, it’s difficult for me to gauge as I'm going off of translations as I am not fluent in reading or speaking French. It seems very disingenuous to simply enforce that this is a purely fa-left party and similar edits by the person seem to have been reverted on Europe Ecology – The Greens. What do other editors think of these citations and claims, including Autospark, Vacant0 and Vif12vf who were involved on the edits of Europe Ecology – The Greens? Helper201 (talk) 22:21, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

@Helper201: After examining that editor's contributions, I've noticed that similar edits, changing the political position to far-left, has been done on couple more articles, which has been also done on French Wiki too. It also has to be noted that the editor edit-warred without opening any discussions here, while the discussion on the french wiki seems to have been abandoned. I support revising the page version to the last stable one, and adding sources that actually describe the party's position.

• Left-wing: 1, 2, 3 (page 6), 4 (page 3), 5, 6
• Far-left: 1, 2, 3 (page 9) (note that most of sources that describe the party as far-left were published when Melenchon ran as president back in 2017)

Cheers. Vacant0 (talk) 22:38, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the article related to CPN (Maoist Centre)/Maoist/UCPN (Maoist)!

Hello fellow editors! I found three articles on same party or with some relation! The contents of Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), Unified Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) are mentioned even in the article Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist Centre). Well though I am unknown of what they all are related to, they seem same organisation. I request all of you here to check them once. Many a part of these articles seem to have been written by fan pov. I feel either a merger is required between these articles else the content of article Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist Centre) need mass trimming. I see this was previously done by someone and got reverted by @Vif12vf:. So, I did the same leaving reasons. Still he reverted even my edits. By views @Vif12vf: seems to be a Communist still I ask the editors here to have an unbiased look at this matter. I request even the healthy thoughs of @Vif12vf:!Krish edits675 (talk) 02:04, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

RfC notification

A request for comment that may interest members of this project has been opened at Talk:Donald Trump § RfC: Should the lead section have any citations?. ––FormalDude talk 19:51, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Modern Whig Party

There is a discussion at Talk:Modern Whig Party#Serious unresolved issues that may be of interest to some. -- Otr500 (talk) 15:01, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Colors

I don't work in politics on Wikipedia much, but I've noticed that political parties pages link the Wikipedia pages of the parties' colors very often. Just a heads up that this is almost always against MOS:OL, and links to color Wikipedia articles should not be linked. Not a big thing to worry about, but it is very systematically done in this project. TheGEICOgecko (talk) 01:33, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

New Infobox design - Political Movements

I am looking to create a new infobox for "Political Movements". The infobox for political parties is great but is lacking/inappropriate for certain articles. There are many articles covering political movements that would benefit from this addition. Just like with all infoboxes it would help readers by giving them a quick summation of a movement. Something along the lines of... Name Common Name Native Name Image-Symbol Image-Flag Caption Founded Status Year ended Key people Area Ideology Affiliation(s) Religion(s) Key event(s)

Its a work in progress but I am new to creating infoboxes and it seems like this is a good place to start. The HELP page suggests reaching out to project pages. Feel free to message me on my talk page as well with thoughts/concerns. Tpwissaa (talk) 21:36, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Iraq

Almost every article relating to political parties in Iraq is in need of urgent attention. They are out of date, poorly sourced and often incomplete and WikiProject Iraq has been no help. Charles Essie (talk) 05:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Socialist Party (disambiguation) § Requested move 11 March 2023

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Socialist Party (disambiguation) § Requested move 11 March 2023. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:47, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Featured article review Liberal Movement (Australia)

I have nominated Liberal Movement (Australia) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)