Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Role-playing games/Archive 7

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WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Deletion Review for Mazes and Minotaurs

I apologize for being late in bringing this to your attention; I should have sought your help when the article was initially up for deletion. The deletion is up for review here and any help is appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rifter0x0000 (talk • contribs) 04:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I saw this too late to do anything. I can put the article on my to do list to recreate it. Do you have any references to share? Please leave them on my talk page if you do. Vampyrecat (talk) 23:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people

Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:

1. supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
2. opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people

List of cleanup articles for your project

If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here

Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip

Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip

Ikip 02:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

LARP Taskforce?

Hi there. I would be quite interested in creating a taskforce for LARP (live action role play) games and culture. Would this be acceptable, and would anyone else be interested in doing so? ~ Baron Von Yiffington ^. _talk ^. _contribs 21:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd be interested in helping with any effort to improve the coverage of larp. Ryan Paddy (talk) 01:00, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot

User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects provides a list, updated daily, of unreferenced living people articles (BLPs) related to your project. There has been a lot of discussion recently about deleting these unreferenced articles, so it is important that these articles are referenced.

The unreferenced articles related to your project can be found at >>>Wikipedia:WikiProject Role-playing games/Archive 7/Unreferenced BLPs<<<

If you do not want this wikiproject to participate, please add your project name to this list.

Thank you.

Update: Wikipedia:WikiProject Role-playing games/Archive 7/Unreferenced BLPs has been created. This list, which is updated by User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects daily, will allow your wikiproject to quickly identify unreferenced living person articles.

There maybe no or few articles on this new Unreferenced BLPs page. To increase the overall number of articles in your project with another bot, you can sign up for User:Xenobot_Mk_V#Instructions.

If you have any questions or concerns, visit User talk:DASHBot/Wikiprojects. Okip 23:44, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Peer review of sister portal

I invite you to come participate in a peer review of Portal:Speculative fiction. You can see (and participate in) the discussion here. Thank you for your time. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Shock: Social Science Fiction

Not sure of the notability of RPG's, and if this fits the bill, maybe someone here could throw their eye to it thanks. Mo ainm~Talk 19:14, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Several editors have jumped in and I am trying to clean the article up a bit as well, if it needs more attention let me know. Thanks. Vampyrecat (talk) 23:05, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

New Goals 2010 proposal

I would like to propose some additional goals for this project.

1. Game Conventions- I would like to help create and edit RPG convention articles. There should also be a project template for game conventions. I would like to work on the template.

2. Artists- Currently the list of artists has a lot of redlinks.

A) Notability Standards for RPG Artists When creating biographies of living persons, we always run into the notability problem. I propose that we discuss guidelines for notability of RPG artists. I propose that the definition of notable RPG artist includes: artists with published cover art, artists whose art has been used in other media (e.g. both RPGs and video games or CCGs), artists who have won awards, artists whose art has appeared in any published work for which there is a wikipedia article. Please note that "published" is a broad definition that goes beyond traditional bound books and print journals.

B) Template for RPG Artists- There should be a project template.

Thank you for considering this proposal. Vampyrecat (talk) 17:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm this?

The death of John Eric Holmes has been reported, but of course we need a reliable source to confirm that. 24.148.0.83 (talk) 18:20, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Game development

There's a long discussion on the talk page there to rename the article, because it covers only video games. Editors who work in that industry are opposed. Pcap ping 00:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Basic Fantasy up for Deletion

[[1]] Have a look please.

• I've hunted down one article that would seem to be a reliable source. Can anyone find anything else and/or have the time to get that RS into the article? Hobit (talk) 19:58, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
  • By the way WW, it's good to see you around! Hobit (talk) 23:52, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Artix Entertainment

Would AdventureQuest and DragonFable be covered by this project? While they are credited as 'Massively Singleplayer Online Role-Playing Games' the scope of this project seems to be more about tabletop games and such, rather than the kind they are. I noticed that the DF article was tagged with 'Role-playing game stubs' so I thought I should ask. If you don't cover it, should I replace the stub template with the normal {{stub}}? Harry Blue5 (talk) 22:16, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Role-playing game articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Role-playing game articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Sunday, November 14th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of November, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

If you have already provided feedback, we deeply appreciate it. For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 16:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 20:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Clean up needed

This whole project needs a serious clean up. Just a casual glance at the importance scale of the articles is a joke. There were multiple character classes from a single vampire based game set as high articles, while a game as important as Runequest was mid and Chivalry and Sorcery and Space Opera were low. Vanity projects and games designers of vague heritage are set as high importance, while articles such as 'dice' is a mid importance article. Please be brave and change articles which need changing. FruitMonkey (talk) 03:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Just because one editor disagrees with the importance rating doesn't indicate a "joke". The ratings are decided by consensus, and it just so happens that more WP:RPG editors play (or played) World of Darkness than they do Chivalry and Sorcery. -- RoninBK _{T C} 05:18, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Has anyone thought of taking a more broad view of the subject? Something based on the history of RPGs in general and not just current consensus? Seems to me that priority should be based on something closer to that and not just current play trends and/or groupthink. But that's just me....Intothatdarkness (talk) 13:54, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Merge help needed big time

There are a whole lot old merge tags and I don't know about this stuff to do the merges. We have Dark Ages: Inquisitor, Dark Ages (World of Darkness), Dark Ages: Werewolf and Dark Ages: Mage. And maybe a couple others. Please comment on these at Talk:Dark Ages (World of Darkness). D O N D E groovily Talk to me 05:44, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

New article for a LARP convention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyrd_Con It is posted for speedy deletion, but I only created the page so that I could add the convention to see also section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game please advise me how to proceed or if I should just let it get deleted. Ozien (talk) 02:10, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Has Wyrd Con been covered in any media articles? If so, then add a link to the news article to the Wyrd Con page and the deletion request may go away. If not, then Wyrd Con probably isn't notable, and nothing you do will stop it getting deleted (you can only delay the inevitable). To have an article on Wikipedia, a subject needs to have been discussed in some depth in reliable sources such as journalistic or scholarly articles or books. You need those sources so that users can verify what the article says about the subject for themselves. Ryan Paddy (talk) 02:21, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Nice work finding some references. Ryan Paddy (talk) 00:40, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Damage over time, at Health (gaming)

There is a discussion on Talk:Health (gaming) about 'damage over time' - the term, well-known in WoW and Everquest, is a redirect to that article, but there is no mention of the concept there. Could someone address this please? I think it would be a useful addition to the article. Elizium23 (talk) 19:29, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

J Hunter Johnson

browsing through the pages in your project found this J. Hunter Johnson there are several issues with the page I wanted to see if he was known to RPG or whether Afd is warranted.Tetron76 (talk) 22:18, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Are we going through this again? I was the one who cleaned up the article last time. What exactly is the problem other than someone posted that it needs inline citation (which it has plenty of)? What exact issues are you referring to? Turlo Lomon (talk) 13:36, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Biography criteria

I don't know how active this project is, but i would suggest that you draw up some inclusion criteria for which you feel would make someone worthy of having an article. While this may be still overturned by other criteria it would make life easier as I see multiple articles have been AfD simultaneously.Tetron76 (talk) 16:03, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Biographies and people in categories

See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Board_and_table_games#Biographies and people in categories

I am hoping to build guidelines for notability criteria for what makes someone notable in the games field i.e. Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)#Curling. Especially games players that I feel needs to have a section similar to the sports and athletes. An example of a question that has just arisen is does winning the first scrabble world championship count as just WP:Oneevent. Combined contribution issues also need defining.

The other conversation is do we want to have category inclusion criteria does a certain threshold need to be met before we add someone to Category:Chess players. Should Ben Afleck count as a poker player?Tetron76 (talk) 15:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

RuneQuest

I've just done an edit to the RuneQuest article. I'd like to see the article get a good status at some point (though it's far from ready). ZedZed77 (talk) 22:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of S. John Ross (writer) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article S. John Ross (writer) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. John Ross (writer) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.

Requested move of Role-playing game (pen and paper)

I've requested for Role-playing game (pen and paper) to be moved to Tabletop role-playing game. The format of the current title is clunky, "tabletop" is in more common use judging by Google hits (not exactly a scientific method I know, but it's a large difference in hit numbers), and the suggested title is much more concise. Your opinions would be welcome at Talk:Role-playing game (pen and paper). Ryan Paddy (talk) 23:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey guys... fiction

Hi Guys, I'm not sure if this project is still active, but I'm looking for some help expanding the role-playing parts of collaborative fiction. Anyone fancy popping some text in? AdamCaputo (talk) 21:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Dungeon Squad

The article Dungeon Squad has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references failed to find significant coverage in reliable sources to comply with notability requirements. This included web searches for news coverage, books, and journals, which can be seen from the following links:
Dungeon Squad – news, books, scholar
Consequently, this article is about a subject that appears to lack sufficient notability.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Spshu (talk) 17:27, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

RPG icon

Hey guys, I was messing around with Inkscape and I made an icon for tabletop role-playing games. Nobody needs to use it, obviously, but its at Commons just in case. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 10:14, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

That looks cool! Thank you for doing that. Jclemens (talk) 17:05, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Request for review of Adventurer Conqueror King System and Old School Renaissance

Could an experienced editor advise on whether Adventurer Conqueror King System should have its own page? It's a new fantasy role-playing game that has done over $35,000 in Kickstarter revenues for its core rule and first supplement; was one of Sean's Picks of the Day on DriveThruRPG, sitting as #1 on Hottest Small Press and becoming a Gold Best-Seller; and it has been nominated for a Three Castles Award.

Similarly, what about a page for the Old School Renaissance movement? This is a burgeoning movement within the RPG subculture/medium that has directly impacted how the 5th edition of Dungeons & Dragons is shaping up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BaronAdventurer (talk • contribs) 23:28, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Adventurer Conqueror King deserves its own page. $35,000 isn't honestly that much on kickstarter - it's way behind Hillfolk, about level with Alas Vegas and only twice what Inverse World managed for instance, and is a tenth of the big kickstarters (Fate Core, Numenera, WoD). And I'm not sure the Three Castles Award is itself notable. The OSR on the other hand definitely does deserve a page. Neonchameleon (talk) 11:46, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Just to add to my previous reply I've created a page for the Old School Revival/Old School Renaissance, and put in a request if anyone wants to show that ACK passes Wikipedia's notability guidelines (I don't think it does, so haven't added the page). With a recommendation from The Escapist it's close, but I can't find a second Reliable Source. Neonchameleon (talk) 18:38, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Fantasy Craft

Hi,

I saw that Fantasy Craft had barely any Wikipedia presence, and I've had a go at upgrading its section under the Spycraft article. It really deserves its own article, however, since it is a separate game in its own right now even if it was originally envisioned as an expansion. Would anyone be happy to work with me on this project, as, although I've done a bit of editing before now, I've yet to make a new page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Procrastinator supreme (talk • contribs) 20:48, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Updating the Spycraft article and creating a Fantasy Craft article are on my to do list. Before we can really create a stand-alone Fantasy Craft page, we need to make sure we have enough secondary sources to establish notability, otherwise it will probably get shot down in short order. - Sangrolu (talk) 12:56, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The links to the prizes the main release has won make a pretty sound case for notability in themselves; otherwise, there's a bundle of reviews etc. linked from Crafty Games' Products page http://www.crafty-games.com/product_catalog/fantasycraft, plus there have been podcasts about it etc., such as this one http://rpgcountdown.com/2009-08-26. Procrastinator supreme (talk) 16:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, would being a gold-rated bestseller on DriveThruRPG count for anything in that regard? http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/metal.php Procrastinator supreme (talk) 17:43, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure. The thing that seems to count the most is articles by sites with editorial oversight (i.e., not just "anyone can submit a review" affairs) or third party books or magazines covering the subject. I think some of the podcasts that FC and SC 2.0 have seen by independent sites would work, as would awards by notable bodies (I think both the ENnies and Diana Jones awards have been defended as notable.)

I'm happy to work with you on a prospective new article or updating the SC article. By the way, I'm Psion over at the Crafty boards. - Sangrolu (talk) 18:33, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Great, thank you. I think the next thing would be to start knocking a draft page together, but I'm a bit swamped at the minute. BTW, as you may have guessed, I go by Paddyfool when I'm over there. Procrastinator supreme (talk) 14:24, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Pathfinder

Sales of Pathfinder are reportedly equal to or higher than the current edition of D&D. I suggest it be upgraded to high importance, from low.

I'd say that some actual sales figures might be in order first. "Reportedly" doesn't seem like enough to me.Intothatdarkness (talk) 16:26, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Holding the burden for proof a little high, aren't you? I'd say for a talk page, we can meaningfully discuss this unless someone has reason to doubt. Reports from both Paizo themselves and Comic Shop retailers' guides show Pathfinder products usually in #2 position and occasionally in #1 position.
Certainly, they are the bestselling RPG that don't have their own wikiproject. I've taken the liberty of upgrading the importance to high. - Sangrolu (talk) 16:33, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how asking for sales figures to demonstrate that Pathfinder sells more than D&D is setting a high level of proof. If you're going to make that claim, it's worthwhile to back it up with evidence. Seems pretty basic to me. Intothatdarkness (talk) 16:45, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

There are stronger sources I'm sure, but here's one. - SudoGhost 16:59, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. I was originally responding to the unsigned bit. Intothatdarkness (talk) 17:03, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Scope Guideance?

Recently, a number of RPG articles have come under attack under the auspices of WP:GAMEGUIDE. Which is well enough, but there seems to be video game specific guidance at WP:VGSCOPE that at least one of the would-be deleters are banking on as policy to delete RPG articles.
I think that tabletop RPGs and LARPS have many distinctions from RPGs in how many of their elements are treated than in Video Games; books about elements like opponents and places are typically the focus of RPG products, whereas in Console and PC RPGs, the game itself may be the only product. Accordingly, RPGs are a step towards literature when in comes to how articles should be evaluated for scope.
I would think more clearly defining the scope of RPG articles on Wikipedia would assist in creating a distinction from video games in how they are approached.
Thoughts? - Sangrolu (talk) 16:41, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I think there are some clear and major differences between actual RPGs and the computer version. Maybe some links to the articles in dispute would help folks see what you mean here. Intothatdarkness (talk) 17:37, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Polaris (role-playing game)

Can someone take a look at Polaris (role-playing game)? It is not a dab and contains three unrelated games. jonkerz ♠talk 13:02, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Request for review of pbp/simming/text-based online rpgs

I'd like some assistance from an experienced editor concerning three articles with enough overlap that they essentially describe the same thing. Two of them I'm quite certain are exactly the same thing. The articles I'm looking at are: Play-by-post_role-playing_game and Simming. These are both instances of Online_text-based_role-playing_game (and a merger was proposed a while between simming and this which never happened but didn't get much discussion). I would like to propose a merge, but also have someone help me with it by reviewing any organizational changes I make to the articles. Anyone? --Frugen (talk) 18:02, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Requested move of White Wolf to White Wolf Publishing

FYI, I'm leaving a note here to mention that I've requested that White Wolf be moved to White Wolf Publishing, so that White Wolf can redirect to arctic wolf. Though gamers may not be surprised to find the publisher at White Wolf, it is my feeling that the average person is looking for a wolf that is white. The discussion is here. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 21:38, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

It seems to be a disambiguation page. We can delete this? Neonchameleon (talk) 14:03, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Wikiproject D&D and its scope

I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons#Scope Expansion/Rename Proposal that involves this Wikiproject. In short, two of the three possible alternatives I've set forth envision that Wikiproject, with or without a rename, to be moved as a task force underneath the WikiProject RPG umbrella. Similar changes have been made in the past with WikiProject Video Games, but I would encourage commentary from active WP:RPG participants at that discussion. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 21:07, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Dungeons & Dragons: A Documentary

I've created a stub article for Dungeons & Dragons: A Documentary which is almost through its Kickstarter period. I was hoping to put it in the ginormous D&D template but there does not appear to be a place for it, so for now it's an orphan. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 16:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Paul Hume article

I received a notice that Paul Hume (game designer) has been proposed for deletion due to "no sign of notability - unreferenced." I have disputed these grounds on the article's discussion page. In addition, as noted above in the discussion of the proposed deletion of the article on S. John Ross, I believe that Mr. Hume is also at a disadvantage as his games were produced prior to the promulgation of the worldwide web. AusJeb (talk) 21:51, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

More Articles Up for AFD

Heads up. Two AFDs that concern me. Trying what I can to defend them. Turlo Lomon (talk) 13:42, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aftermath!
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bushido (role-playing game)

Adding some more. Turlo Lomon (talk) 13:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert N. Charrette‎
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daredevils (role-playing game)

Doing what I can. Web Warlock (talk) 18:24, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

I chimed in on a couple as well. Given that there were only a handful of RPG magazines in the early 1980s, some of the user's comments about RS reveal a clear lack of understanding about RPGs in general and the status of the hobby in the early 1980s in particular. Intothatdarkness 21:13, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Daredevils still needs some help, the other two were Snowball Keeps. Web Warlock (talk) 11:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Chipped in some. Also wondering why he's referencing RPG/N when it's tagged as inactive and archival...Intothatdarkness 21:57, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Added quite a bit to Daredevils. Could use some more to the article itself. Thanks! Web Warlock (talk) 03:26, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

RS for Imagine Magazine

Hey, all—I'm looking for help with reliable sources for the Imagine (AD&D magazine) article (particularly to replace the forum source). Take a look and please add a few citations if you can. Thanks czar · · 21:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Dragonlance characters

Can anyone find any additional sources for Goldmoon, Raistlin Majere, Caramon Majere, Tasslehoff Burrfoot, Tanis Half-Elven, Riverwind, and Kitiara uth Matar? We are trying to make sure we meet the WP:GNG at minimum, and preferably exceed that and truly improve the articles. Thanks in advance. BOZ (talk) 23:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)