Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine/Football

Pryvit, Welcome!

This area has been designated as Talk about Ukrainian Football.

In particular, any discussions on how we can make the topic of Ukrainian Football better in terms of reference with the Encyclopedic nature of Wikipedia. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 16:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Questions on Ukrainian Football

Pryvit Xloptsi!

I'm sending a query to the group of current active Wiki Ukrainian football participants about doing some editing to make some of the information more seamless. However, to do that, I really need to get your opinions because I haven't participated here for too long and I don't want to give the wrong signals and put any antagonizations amongst us - there are enough out there already.

Also I like the work that has been done here already and although there needs some solid proof reading I think that that will come.

So here is my suggestion -

One of the areas that I would like to work on is getting all the tables both historical (past seasons) and current weekly updates to be similar. One area is that Druha Liha has 2 different styles for Hrupa A and Hrup B. Of course this stems from that 2 different authors are working on this. The data seems to be ok, but the presentation is not consistent. I would like to get both Druha A and Druha B standings to be the same style. And this is where I would like a consensus to go on because these areas may be "pet projects" and I don't want to offend.

I would prefer to do the standings in the style that Alex G. has initiated them. For me its easier to convert all RSSSF standings (I'm YKPAIHA's representative and update those standings weekly http://www.rsssf.com/tableso/oekr09.html) into a text format that simply plugs in. I have scripts that already automatically do the standings update for RSSSF and I have just recently done the same kind of scripts for Persha Liha and Druha Liha A.

I would like to do the same for the standings of Druha Liha B and Vyshcha Liha as well. The results part I would not touch and in fact would like to get set up some time for both Persha Liha and Druha Liha A

Opinions? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 15:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems like the one used in the Ukrainian Premier League 2008-09 article is more widely accepted. For example, I was glancing through England, Spain, Germany, Netherlands, and Italy, which were all the same one.

Personally, it easier for me to edit the one with used in Persha Liha but, although it may be more work, the table used in the Ukrainian Premier League looks more organized and may easier to keep track for a reader. I think that the one in the Ukrainian Premier League should be used. --Boguslav (talk) 05:44, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I was also glancing across different federations in Europe and noticed that this is the more widely used standings table.

However, there are some things I disagree with and this the notes for Qualification and Relegation while a season is in progress. No team has qualified for anything yet!!! That should be removed. The color coordination to signify potential outcome of a season is ok. I place delimiter lines for relegation and promotion hopefuls during the season for RSSSF but no indication of what the team has qualified until they have really qualified.

I think that probably this table in historical terms is the way to go - but the team templates need to be modified to expand the team name fully with the town or city attached. I think is extreme duplicate work when the club already exists - Why do you need anudder replication of a template name with the team name in it.

Once I get my script to create this kind of table from a RSSSF standings I'll see its limitations.

Maybe the best solution would be to uses Alex G. style (Persha Liha) during the season and on completion use the Premier League style OR How about Premier League to be the standing only in the style it is already while Persha/Druha/Amateur be in straightforward Alex G. style? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 12:41, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I would be nice to have all the tables the same, but I think I would agree having Alex style tables in the lower leagues, since it is easier to use them, and then converting them back to the premier league style at the end of the season. That way for the lower leagues, we wouldn't spend as much time updating them. On the other hand, if we stay consistent with the premier league style tables, then we save the work we would have to do at the end. However I'm open with whathever decision we decide. I don't particularly favor any one over the other (as long as they are updated).--Shustfan (talk) 18:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for Ukrainian. Може краще це обговорювати на якійсь одній сторінці, а не писати одне й те саме на десятку сторінок обговорення? І тоді всі користувачі будуть бачити думки інших.--Ahonc (Talk) 21:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Ніколи не стидайся рідної мови! A як це зробити, щоб ті що занімаються Ukrainian Football мали своє місце на балачки? Some portal? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 21:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Well... we can form a WikiProject to discuss various Ukrainian football issues. Example: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ukrainian Football or something like that. --BoguslavM 22:30, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I started to do the table for Bruha liha B that way because I wanted to make articles about Kremin similar to Chelsea and Arsenals articles so I copied how Premier League table was. I think it is easier to maintain tables sat up this way. Ceriy (talk) 18:51, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Just an observation - I think that what you have in Druha Liha B is template based and that if one is to maintain it they should have a good working understanding of how those templates fb, cl, cl2 etc interact. I also think that the qualifications area while the season is in progress is a misnomer and that it should not have an entry - because the season is in progress and qualification is not until the team has actually captured that position. Also, the team names are template based - Druha Liha A has the whole team name including city or town in the standings while Druha Liha B only has the team name.

I do see that you have an extensive input in Kremin - which compared to any other YKPAIHIAH club is dwarfed and that is commendable but what it does is set the standard that all clubs should have this kind of reference data available. That is highly unlikely because the level of detail is enormous.

Do you generate the standings for Druha Liha B or do you manually update the standings?

Would you have problem with having both standings in Druha Liha the same? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I manually update the standings. I wouldn't have a problem with making them the same. I don't do a lot of work on football related articles, only when I feel like doing it, so I will not have a problem with following the decision that you and other users who do most of the work, will come up with. Ceriy (talk) 19:30, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Ceriy, thanks for your input. I would like to hear what the others have to say. I beleive that your input is quite substantial in the football area and consistant and would not like to interfere with you curtailing that input because of my views. I will also attempt to create a script to generate Druha Liha B style standings. (but that like other things I need time for.) Cheers! Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:49, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I can make template for standings which will be universal for different wiki (for example: user will update table in uk-wiki and then copy the table and paste it in articles on ru-wiki and en-wiki without changes).--Ahonc (Talk) 19:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I've got scripts working for both styles here on en-wiki and will try them out this weekend.Brudder Andrusha (talk) 00:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

What scripts? What do they do?--Ahonc (Talk) 18:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

They update standings by creating the wiki code from standings that I organize for RSSSF. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 20:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

About historical seasons: I wrote some articles in uk-wiki: uk:Чемпіонат України з футболу 1992 is good article there. Article about UkrChamp 1995-96 is not ended now. Article about last championship has tables with all results (except of Турнір дублерів).

About RSSSF.com: Я там зустрічав помилки (наприклад, там написано, що минулого сезону Нафтовик грав у Сумах, але він грав в Охтирці. Іще в кубковому матчі Верес - ФК Львів (КУ 2006/07) рахунок не 2:0, а 0:2).

About the second league: Я створив таблиці з результатами в українській Вікіпедії для двох груп. Оновлюю їх після кожного туру. Можна було б їх перенести і в англійську Вікіпедію, але там команди посортовані за алфавітом, а англійський алфавті відрізняється ваід українського, оому порядок команд тут буде інший. P.S. В українській Вікіпедії зараз стаття uk:Волинь (футбольний клуб) номінована на добру. Було б добре якби хтось переклав в ен-вікі.--Ahonc (Talk) 20:45, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

And also about championships: Я знайшов сайт, де є всі результати матчів усіх українських чемпіонатів по лігах. Треба ті таблиці конвертувати у вікірозмітку. [1]--Ahonc (Talk) 20:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Ahonc - Thanks for info about RSSSF. I don't have access for immediate corrections but will give them to the administrator when they contactable after summer vaction. Also the early table at RSSSF are quite poor and I will be tackling them some time in the future as well.

About Volyn - we'll get to that as well. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 21:16, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

About tables of results:

There are three variants of tables (by arrangement of teams):

1. teams sorted in alphabetical order (Arsenal Kyiv, Chornomorets, Dnipro Dn, Dynamo Kyiv, Illichivets...);
2. teams sorted by places in previous championship (Shakhtar, Dynamo Kyiv, Metalist, Dnipro Dn, Tavriya...)
3. teams arranged by place in current championship.

Third variant is difficult to realize if ch/ship is not ended. I prefer the first one (and use it in uk-wiki): it is easier to update it. But for historical championships third variant is preferrable if we use table from other web-sites.--Ahonc (Talk) 18:52, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

You may have noticed that I have started to get Druha Liha A and B in synchronization in terns of how it looks. I still need to get the results table inserted into Hrupa A. Just a quick question about the results matrix - is there a tool to generate the script to create an initial results matrix?? The manual effort to do such a matrix is painful! Also template creation is pain in the sr*ka!Brudder Andrusha (talk) 10:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

In uk-wikipedia I created a template which generates empty table 18x18 with team names and comments to each cell (you can see the tables in uk:Чемпіонат України з футболу 2008—2009‎#Друга ліга) and then I fill tables manually after each tour of ch/ship. --Ahonc (Talk) 16:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Also the standings tables are starting to evolve from the scripts that I already have for RSSSF. Generation is quite quick. There is some debate going on with some folks outside this YKPAIHIAH group.Brudder Andrusha (talk) 10:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Ukrainian National Team

I noticed today that someone by the name User:Fasach Nua has gone in an tagged that out list of famous players needs to be verifiable. I think this guy has a bit of a problem because I noticed on his User talk page he seems to do this all over the place. Whats our approach? All of the players are notable in terms of them being famous and that were sometimes in their careers played for the Ukrainian National Team. Or do we need a specific source ( and WP:ProveIT ) needs some English source.

I think this is a waste of time but I'll let you guys guide since you might have more experience with situations like this. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 14:54, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Round by Round to be deleted

After some discussions by the so called experts in Wiki Football they have decided that the Round by Round information in the 2008-09 Premier League is going to be deleted. Typical of goes on here in Wiki Football. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 16:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

WP:FOOTY

I'm not sure how aware you guys are of the main football WikiProject, but it occured to me that it may be in the interest of the Ukrainian football editors to join up with the football editors. You could possibly even create your own Ukrainian football taskforce that would encompass all of the same information you're handling here. I think that any time we can bring together editors it's good for WP because everyone can get on the "same page" in relation to guidelines, MoS, etc. Thoughts? JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 17:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Ukrainian Football articles

Hi all

I placed a message on all the participants pages so they would know about this

I have been doing clean-ups of the Ukrainian project pages trying to fix class/importance and realised that many of the amateur Urainian football articles are full of redlinks and some other pages have simple problems such as class/importance not added.

Can all of you on this list of participating members please have a look at

• 1 Things such as Ukrainian Cup 2001, 2002, 2003 could all be merged into Ukrainian Amateur cup : 2002 Ukrainian Amateur Cup : 2001 Ukrainian Amateur Cup and it appears that a lot of the indiviual amateur club pages have been deleted. The main reason is that other projects have had amateur pages deleted also as per claims of not notable such as Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2010_June_23#Club_Cultural_Casma) and I do not think that these deletionists are going round fixing the mess they are creating with redlinks and broken links etc inside articles related to the ones they are deleting

• 2 Class/Importance - The 2009 UEFA European Under-19 Football Championship is an example of where no-one has bothered to put the Class or Importance details in the Ukrainian Project box on the article talk page. This is the main problem for me as I am trying to get all the ??? fixed but have run into literally hundreds of Ukrainan football articles without them being done. I am not a football fan, let alone know anything about football or Ukrainian Football and so I would not know which players or teams or leagues were HIGH MID or LOW importance or not (well apart from Dynamo Kiev being a bit important lol)

• 3 Maybe make a plan for action on each seperate sub division such as Players, clubs, leagues & stadia for further action. You could for example list them all and then delete the individual entries once they are done,

Can you all spend 10 mins every day you edit to maybe go through some of these articles please and do this ?

thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 17:21, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Lviv FC Squad

I noticed this template no longer matches the FC Lviv article's Current squad section. --Rpyle731^talk 02:10, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't surprise me at all. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 04:26, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Халтура

А що оце за халтура?

• 1996–97 Ukrainian Second League
• 1997–98 Ukrainian Second League
• 1998–99 Ukrainian Second League
• 1999–2000 Ukrainian Second League
• 2000–01 Ukrainian Second League
• 2001–02 Ukrainian Second League
• 2002–03 Ukrainian Second League
• 2003–04 Ukrainian Second League
• 2004–05 Ukrainian Second League

Однакові турнірні таблиці для всіх груп, тільки змінені назви команд. Треба руки повідривати тому, хто це писав, і гнати його з футбольного вікіпроекту…--Anatoliy (Talk) 20:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm well aware of this nonsense. History of the pages probably tells us who the culprit was. I slowly started 2005-06 and 2006-07 and will get to the others when I get time. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 22:18, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

But you are one of main Ukrainian football contributors here.--Anatoliy (Talk) 23:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I contribute and so do some of others including yourself (as volunteers). It would be nice if some of those who contribute would be a little bit more accurate. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 00:30, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:25, 27 October 2019 (UTC)