Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/Archive 7

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Some concern

An editor claiming to be from Curtin Uni claims that Tom Stannage has died - however there seems to be no online info re this - so I have reverted in the absence of an easily located WP:RS. In the event of this being a fact please find a wp;rs - thanks SatuSuro 12:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

seems like its true. Curtin uni website confirms it. I'd expect The West to have something tomorrow. The-Pope (talk) 12:36, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for confirming that - a wp:rs is what was needed.. the vc's blog is good enough for the moment SatuSuro 12:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Merge discussion: List of road routes in Perth, Western Australia and List of road routes in rural and remote Western Australia

The above articles, which are within the scope of this WikiProject, have been proposed to be merged into a single article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. - Evad37 (talk) 03:07, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts once again in this area - I have wanted to fix what I've considered a bloated and non-standard list since around 2008 but haven't really known where to even start with it. Orderinchaos 06:26, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of non-standard, does someone want to remove all of the excess bold, italics, and colons from those tables? (I'm too busy just now...) Mitch Ames (talk) 12:14, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

The proposed merged article, currently previously in my sandbox, does actually fix the formatting with MOS compliant tables - Evad37 (talk) 13:04, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Wireless Hill Park

I've "finished" the Wireless Hill Park article. If anyone feels like reviewing it to find all the mistakes that I've undoubtedly missed, I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, Mitch Ames (talk) 14:36, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Dante Arthurs

Western Australian Attorney-General, Christian Porter, has since revoked Arthurs' non-parole period, making him one of three Western Australians to have their papers marked "never to be released"

--article

The userbox and opening paragraph contradict Arthur's non-parole period. The legal proceedings section also makes an claim that I can't verify. Does anyone know of a source? In fact, one news article I came across had someone say in the comments "but Wikipedia says he is never to be released". Matthew Thompson ^{talk to me bro!} 04:51, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Huh, article doesn't appear to be under WikiProject Western Australia. Don't know why not. I'll copy and paste the above to the talk page.Matthew Thompson ^{talk to me bro!} 04:56, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

"Major Roads" lists

Are List of major roads in rural Western Australia and List of major roads in Perth, Western Australia now redundant? Moondyne (talk) 03:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

They are not entirely redundant, as there are some roads without route numbers listed there. Having said that, they definitely need some work done on them (at the very least reformatting). Another related article is List of highways in Western Australia, which has several non-highway roads included in the list. Perhaps all three can be merged and reformatted? - Evad37 (talk) 05:54, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

(also for those interested, this was previously discussed in 2006)

If they are kept, or merged, then there needs to be a defined selection criteria, as per MOS:SAL - Evad37 (talk) 01:58, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

List of major roads in rural Western Australia is now on a 2006 cleanup list at the AWNB - and with no references, is a prime Afd candidate if someone does not do something with it. SatuSuro 23:41, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I've added a couple of general refs and changed the cleanup tag to RefImprove. Evad37 (talk) 00:24, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I have also now started a new version in my userspace here, if anyone wants to take a look and comment or make suggestions.

The main differences are:

• Uses a new table format like in List of road routes in Western Australia
• Has an expanded lead section
• Uses new selection criteria - roads outside Perth controlled by MRWA - to define "major road" (which will be approx 140 roads)

Currently there are only four roads listed, but I will be progressively adding more. - Evad37 (talk) 03:49, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Swan Brewery

Given Lion Nathan's decision to close the Swan Brewery operations I thought it was a good time to update/improve the article on the company. Was hoping that someone might be able to go to the Canning Vale plant and get some photos before it closes for good. Dan arndt (talk) 08:20, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

There doesn't seem much coverage of some of the other breweries consumed by Swan/Emu eg Castlemaine, Red Castle, etc. Hack (talk) 09:15, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree, mind you Emu Brewery has a separate article but it would be good to either have separate articles or sub-headings dealing with those breweries (such as Kalgoorlie Brewing Company). It probably should have a list of all the beers that the brewery produced as well. Dan arndt (talk) 06:55, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I'd write it but it would all be from original research (hic). Cheers, The-Pope (talk) 07:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposed WA road routes navbox

Following on from my redesign of List of road routes in Western Australia, I have started designing a navbox to replace the old route tables at the bottom of road articles (eg Mitchell Freeway, Reid Highway). The template is in my userspace here, with examples of how it could be used here and here. I would appreciate any feedback on the design and/or the template code. Thanks, - Evad37 (talk) 02:47, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Like Moondyne (talk) 03:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

The navbox is now located at Template:WA road routes, and has been placed on most state route pages, up to SR87 - Evad37 (talk) 09:14, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

WA roads worklist

I have created a WA roads worklist in my userspace, as there are a lot of missing road articles, as well as a lot that need improvement, with quality generally being C-class and lower. Where should this worklist live? I could leave it in my userspace, move it to a subpage of this project, ie Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Roads worklist, or it could be created as a task force. What does everyone think? - Evad37 (talk) 09:30, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

No comments... I'll keep it in my userspace - Evad37 (talk) 03:13, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Either is fine (a task force is probably overkill). Most of those articles a few of us created in a bit of a blitz around 5½ years ago and they've barely been touched since. If you choose to keep it in your userspace, link it from the project main page so people know where it is. Orderinchaos 14:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done - Evad37 (talk) 01:58, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Perth open house

Very late notice but I got an email about the Perth open house that is on this weekend. Not the traditional open house, it actually is more an open buildings, including the new Perth Arena and City Square buildings. Might be an opportunity to get some decent photos from areas that normally aren't open to the public. http://www.openhouseperth.net/destinations/buildings for the details. The-Pope (talk) 11:30, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

even 2 or 3 wikipedians with a camera or three would have been a great idea... havent seen or heard anything from others about it, a probable lost opportunity... maybe next time around if there are still any enthusiasts left...SatuSuro 13:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I was out of town unfortunately, just got back tonight. Orderinchaos 14:21, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Arena freebie concert tonight. Parking $15. Had to queue at bar for 10 minutes. Acoustics ok. Seats quite comfortable but side ones are angled towards the centre of stadium floor, and not the stage (obviously designed for basketball). But aesthetically awesome. Moondyne (talk) 15:02, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Project Tagging

First - thanks to User:The Pope for raising the issue - for the rest of us for FYI - Template_talk:WikiProject_Australia#Perth_integrated_into_WA

It had come to mind as tagging new categories related to the work on the FreoPedia/Fremantle editing of recent as to whether WA=yes and Perth=yes were mutually indifferent to each other, or not - it would make sense that WA is the main activity area... Ar least with the template being tweaked - now Perth=yes are also part of WA=yes...

Anyone wanting to tag for the freo articles - WA=yes on categories, and WA=yes, and WA-importance=low on article talk pages. Well done to those working on the Freo articles and categories. SatuSuro 12:28, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks. I've been working through some of the cleanup lists (ie WA and Perth) and given that WT:PERTH redirects here and it's now listed as a task force I thought it made more sense to keep Perth articles as a subset of WA. Of the 1000 articles in WP:Perth, only 90 or so weren't in WP:WA already so it want really a big deal. The-Pope (talk) 13:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

wow that is some list - some price for productivity SatuSuro 00:27, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Good link; I've bookmarked it.  :) Sam Wilson 00:49, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

It sure makes one wonder - some of the cleanup categories are suprisingly large - lacking location coordinates looks like a big job to fix SatuSuro 02:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

By the way, road articles (and perhaps other linear features) should use an attached KML file rather than coordinates - is there a way to make a new cleanup category for this? - Evad37 (talk) 02:26, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

I've actually done most of the Perth related coords missing articles over the past few weeks, quite interesting searching through old maps for features that used to be there. The landgate website has some fantastic old maps going back to the 50s for most of Perth. I've only made one KML so far for the Polly Pipe. Not sure that there is that much of am issue to need to split out roads/KML needed from coords needed, at least not for the 150 or so WA articles. However the 1893 Australia related articles needing coordinates might take some time! The-Pope (talk) 05:01, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

List of streets in Fremantle instead of stubs?

As part of the editing related to Freopedia, relevant articles are being categorised into subcategories of Category:Streets in Fremantle. Some of those categories have had corresponding article stubs created for the road, ie Ellen Street, Fremantle. However, I don't think many of the streets are going to be notable enough, or have enough content, for their own article, so perhaps a list of significant streets would be better? (with pages redirecting to appropriate table entry) It could look something like List of roads in Baltimore County, Maryland.

Existing consensus elsewhere on road notability

WP:WikiProject U.S. Streets Streets are generally not notable. To be considered notable, the street should pass one of the following criteria: The street has become synonymous with an industry or organization (Wall Street, Pennsylvania Avenue, Madison Avenue, Fifth Avenue), The street was the site of an important historical event (Clark Street), The street has been mentioned by name in a major motion picture, song, television show, or other mainstream media (Wacker Drive, Santa Monica Boulevard, Sunset Boulevard) The street has been the subject of a documentary or an article in a major media source. It is otherwise notable, as described at Wikipedia:Notability. Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features) (draft guidline, but seems to be consensus on roadways section) International road networks (such as the International E-road network), Interstate, national, state and provincial highways are typically notable. Topic notability for county roads, regional roads (such as Ireland's regional roads), local roads and motorway service areas may vary, and are presumed to be notable if they have been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable and independent of the subject.

Thoughts? - Evad37 (talk) 04:14, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Freopedia [1], and the number of items listed at the heritage list [2] that is currently being worked upon will easily go past the threshold required as discussed above, if the editing over the next couple of weeks will be anything to go by...

Having been a visitor at some rather notoriously bad notability Australian based arguments (obsessed Google search engine parties on Afd) - I would suggest that the outline of possible consensual guidelines above is useful, but not really relevant - in view of the scope of the Freopedia aims and scope - there is adequate WP:RS information about all the features that are on the Heritage list, and invoking by paraphrase and bad memory the now Victorian resident (former western Australian historian) - Leigh Edmonds - the roads do have stories that can be of significance, and in the case of Fremantle, I would argue that the stubs, and categories are expandable to within a reasonable notability and sourcing that would justify the current range of stubs and topics considered. SatuSuro 04:39, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Also the notability re streets is very american, and culturally bound - for built up old urban areas, I can think of places such as London, Vienna and St Petersburg where almost every street in its historical context has buildings, events, and issues that do not fit into US cultural context which are notable... SatuSuro 04:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:People from Subiaco, Western Australia

Category:People from Subiaco, Western Australia, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. The-Pope (talk) 01:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Perth Concert Hall

Some more editors at Talk:Perth Concert Hall, Western Australia would be good … trying to figure out whether Wikipedia copied from the concert hall's website or if the website copied from Wikipedia. IgnorantArmies – 13:43, Sunday November 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think that is missing the point - we have a page that is more or less word for word identical with a web page that claims (c) - regardless of who copied from who, the issue is do we leave it (ok its been like that for four years...) something that is identical with text on a web page or do we revert to edelmans edits, or do we re-write? SatuSuro 13:57, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

AUSMIN

For the general interest level - AUSMIN is happening here at the moment SatuSuro 00:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Vincent Heritage

I have just found the City of Vincent's Vincent Heritage website. There's a lot of info there that can be used to improve City of Vincent and related articles. - Evad37 (talk) 01:24, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Dallas Dempster

This BLP article is being edited by a paid PR (see talk page) and IP editors in a way that aims to favourably promote the subject to the exclusion of his most notable WA Inc involvements. Heads up, please! Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 03:41, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Winthrop Avenue PRODed

Winthrop Avenue was PRODed earlier today. Any help in adding reliable sources would be appreciated, as would be any help in watching out for our other road articles. - Evad37 (talk) 06:07, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Where was it?

I've been working down the "coords needed" list and Graylands Teachers College has me stumped. The Landgate site has aerial photos going back to the 1940s, but I can't work out which buildings would be the teachers college. Anyone know, either from WP:OR or having an old street directory lying around? The-Pope (talk) 15:07, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

might be some help - mimosa street - graylands had a range of different institutionals located there - so take care! - check - Rielly, C. W. (Campbell W.); Graylands Teachers College (1979), The Graylands story, Graylands Teachers College, ISBN 978-0-908008-26-1 - http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/9608428?q=graylands+teacher+college&c=book&versionId=11150286 SatuSuro 15:42, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Freopedia

With Fremantle/Freopedia articles that will be linked to QR codes out in the streets should we add a Freo=yes to the {{WP Australia}} or should we create a new template so that we can tag articles to monitor as well as warn people the impact renaming, deleting or such actions may have or both. What do people think Gnangarra 10:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

There is already a {{QRpedia article}} template. We could however create a {{Freopedia article}} template, that would put articles into Category:Freopedia, with the message changed to

"This Fremantle-related article is linked to by one or more organisations, using QRpedia. Statistics are available. For further information, please see Wikipedia:Freopedia and WikiProject QRpedia." (or something similar)

I think that adding a |Freo=yes parameter to {{WP Australia}} would then be unnecessary. Renaming or moving shouldn't be a problem, as long as the QR-linked page is kept as a redirect. Deleting would be more problematic, but again, the QR-linked page could be turned into a redirect to a more general article or list, if they exist. - Evad37 (talk) 10:38, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Freopedia edit-a-thon

Just a reminder that the Freopedia edit a thon is today at the Fremntle library, from 12:30 until 17:00, hope you can drop in at sometime. Afterwards have a cold drink or two across the road at Rosies. Gnangarra 00:55, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

No article for Rosie's? Hack (talk) 04:39, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Hospitals

Hey kids, I noticed yesterday when reading the new Swanbourne Hospital article that we didn't have an article on Graylands Hospital, and was a bit shocked that we still have gaps like this considering the pretty massive detail of Perth articles generally. I was then even more surprised to find that we lacked articles on Joondalup Health Campus, Peel Health Campus, Midland Health Campus, Kalgoorlie Hospital, and a range of other fairly significant facilities. Would anyone be interested in taking these (and the rest of List of hospitals in Western Australia) on? The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:46, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Not only are we missing all those articles, but the ones we do have are generally just stubs. I found that out whilst creating the {{Hospitals in Perth}} navbox, which I've added to the existing articles. I intend to create some more articles (probably stubs) over the next few days to decrease the number of redlinks in the navbox (unless someone beats me to it). - Evad37 (talk) 08:53, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Brother Len

It seems that some editor who is not a local has created Leonard_Buckeridge, I have never ever seen reference to the individual it refers to in this manner,.. it would be interesting to know what the local rather wealthy grandfather figure should be known as... I would consider billionaires (?) do not have separate WP:MOS for their naming on articles.. sats 03:11, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done changed to Len per commonname - thanks to The Pope sats 08:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Looks like he was a little less publicity-shy in years past[3]. Hack (talk) 10:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

There seems to some confusion over the place of his birth. According to The West Australian's WA's Rich List 2011, he migrated from England however an IP claiming to be a child of Buckeridge has changed his place of birth to Australia. I've done a bit of searching and have come up with nothing. Any ideas? Hack (talk) 02:28, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

TAFEs

Another strangely large gap I've come across this week concerns TAFEs in WA - despite our immaculately detailed coverage of almost anything, we still lack articles on four of WA's nine TAFE colleges - Central West, Great Southern, Kimberley, Pilbara and South West Regional. Anyone care to take these on? The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:36, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The house on the hill

Should the house of ill-repute full of scoundrels, charlatans and snake oil salesmen be located at Parliament House, Perth; Parliament House, Perth Western Australia or Parliament House (Perth), or something else? The dab page at Parliament House seems to indicate that the , City form is preferred, but I would have thought the (City) format fitted better with the dab guidelines. The-Pope (talk) 10:36, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

I've moved the page back to Parliament House, Perth, for now—the missing comma in "Parliament House, Perth Western Australia" irks me, and "Western Australia" is probably quite unnecessary as well, given that none of the articles in Category:Scottish parliamentary locations and buildings could really be confused with the Australian building. I would probably prefer "Parliament House (Perth)", and standardising all of those listed at the disambiguation page as "Parliament House (city)", but I'm not too fussed either way. IgnorantArmies 11:24, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

support - change to Parliament House (Perth), please do not get carried away with instant changes or personal preferences, without checking other opinions as well, just remember what the word Perth alone can do for some... sats 14:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Since after great arguement, with some seriously stupid cabal railroading Perth has been declared by the "community" as needing no disambiguation so it should therefore be logical that when referring to Perth its totally unambigious and with out any further need for disambiguation. Though its not really Perth's Parliament House its actually Western Australia's Parliament house that just happen to be in Perth or is that West Perth on the totherside of the freeway? Gnangarra 06:17, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm assuming the debate is concluded but I personally think it should be WA, not Perth, as the parliament house belongs to the entire state and simply happens to be located in Perth. Orderinchaos 11:15, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Dallas issue

There seems to be a bit of bother with Dallas.[4] - had read part and wondered what was going on (have deleted a redundant observation on the process)- seems to be explained in part at Incident noticeboard sats 14:41, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

It is a fairly straight forward case of a person and his PR firm thinking they can use this site to "right the wrongs" of past media coverage by creating a generally positive article. When the PR guy couldn't get the job done, the boss stepped in today and tried. Hopefully they can work with us, and not just butt their heads against the virtual brick wall or fight back online like Edelsten has. The-Pope (talk) 15:10, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Everybody please check my work. I'm working through the article now, should be done in an hour or so, depending what I find. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 04:28, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Your edits look fine. Thanks for making such a big effort on this. If you put yourself in their shoes, with out any wiki experience, you would wonder why you can't just write the article yourself, just like you would a press release or profile for a conference. Have you seen the Edelsten wikipeedonya site? Hopefully we'll never end up there again, thanks to your call, our combined edits and hopefully him understanding that whilst he/his PR team can make suggestions, right blatent wrongs or remove vandalism, he doesn't have editorial control or veto over what is in the article, just like he can't control what journalists write. Cheers, The-Pope (talk) 05:04, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

I think he gets it. I haven't heard from him since the phone call. Thanks for correcting my "current project" in the lead, I agree for now, but if that solar project starts garnering a lot of coverage further down the track, it may warrant a mention in the lead then. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 05:25, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Going home. I'll continue tomorrow. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 06:24, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Meetup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/9

It has been too long since the last few meetups.. please make an effort and catchup!

See you there sats 07:33, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Help with source/s for Kwinana Freeway

As I mentioned in the section above, I am planning on taking Kwinana Freeway to WP:GAN soon. However, I'm having trouble sourcing the following info:

In mid-2006, the Bus Transitway was closed permanently in order to allow construction of the Mandurah railway line, completed in 2007. After rail services commenced, most freeway bus services ceased, however dedicated on-ramps, off-ramps and short priority lanes were provided for the remaining services between Canning Highway and Perth.[citation needed]

Can anyone here help? - Evad37 (talk) 06:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

• 22nd Aug 2007 The Perth to Mandurah railway is a step closer to completion with the first train being run through the New Metro Rail tunnel at the weekend.
• 23 December 2007 On sunday the 23rd December the mandurah line opens (Finally) the timetables say all routes will run as normal but theres still some questions left unanswered...
  • the first one is ok for what it is, it's a good starting point though it entirely missed the opening date of the mandurah line. Second one is poor on the RS stand point but its gives you a date to work with maybe some news papers will have more info... Gnangarra 16:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Main Roads major changes timeline, lots of freeway dates but alos other roads worth noting for those interested Gnangarra 16:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

• for the rail line constructions [ http://www.abp.unimelb.edu.au/files/miabp/3rail-background-report.pdf this looks the best starting point], its also details other reports, studies etc. Gnangarra 16:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, Gnangarra. The dates lead me to an ABC news report, and the background report lead to the new metro rail website (or rathern an archive of it I found at wayback machine). I also managed to find a Transperth page detailing bus service changes. And with a bit of rewording I've used the google maps ref as a source for the bus ramps/lanes remaining. :) - Evad37 (talk) 02:35, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Gentle reminder

Today is the day...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/9

It has been too long since the last few meetups.. please make an effort and catchup!

See you there sats 02:49, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

For the politics junkies

• Category:Barnett Cabinet - is now becoming increasingly unreliable - over 4 different line ups and there is no attempt in the category to identify that it covers all lineups - including former members, any thoughts..? sats 12:43, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Why not have separate catgegories for the different lineups? ie Category:First Barnett Cabinet, Category:Second Barnett Cabinet, etc - Evad37 (talk) 12:58, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Probably should be Barnett Ministry for the sake of consistency with most other references to the collective of ministers. I notice that in federal politics ministries end at elections eg the First Gillard Ministry ended at the 2010 election (or the prorogation, not 100% sure) and the Second Gillard Ministry began afterwards. If the Barnett category was split by first and second ministry, some value might be drawn from the categorisation. All of this assumes that the federal usage is correct... Hack (talk) 12:59, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
      • The responses are pointing to a breakup - into separate cabinets... sounds good - will wait a day or two in case there is any objection to such... thanks for the speedy responses... sats 13:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
        • A possible problem is that ministries for past WA administrations are only numbered on Wikipedia if the premier served non-consecutive terms (eg First Leake Ministry and Second Leake Ministry). Some of the longer term premierships may have gone through several elections, thereby increasing the number of discrete ministries. It may be worth checking to see how this started. Hack (talk) 13:17, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
          • only numbered on Wikipedia if the premier served non-consecutive terms... However, within articles on a ministry, there may be sections on a First and Second Ministry, such as in Court–Cowan Ministry, Scaddan Ministry, and Brand–Nalder Ministry. This can lead to awkward situations such as having two second ministries for James Mitchell: First Mitchell Ministry#Second_Ministry and Second Mitchell Ministry. - Evad37 (talk) 13:53, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
            • would it not be better to dab them by term or tag them by year ie Mitchell ministry 1921-1924 and Mitchell ministery 1931-1933, though cabinet would also work and be less ambiguous Gnangarra 07:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
              • Have Cabinet and Ministry always been synonymous in Western Australia? Hack (talk) 05:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
          • Re "how this started" - that is the official way the ministries are named in Western Australia (check Hansard and the yearbooks). I was undecided how to name the internal tags within articles at the time I wrote them, there's never been a legal term for different versions or incarnations of the ministry and some objected to the term "incarnation" at the time. FTR, I think using the category system to mark these is complete overkill. Orderinchaos 21:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Pollypipe drive thru

• driving through the Graham Farmer Freeway tunnel eastbound
• driving through the Graham Farmer Freeway tunnel westbound

Thanks to Sats for assisting we now have east and westbound drive throughs of the pollypipe, taken last night as work commences tomorrow to turn it into three lanes eachway. both videos have had the audio track removed and converted with Firefogg I have avi formats with better detail but they are too big to upload to commons. What I'd like is any thoughts about them, suggestions to improve etc and are there any other stretches of roads you'd like to see videos of? Gnangarra 04:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

James Street, Northbridge on a Friday night? Hack (talk) 05:10, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Only from inside an APC :) Gnangarra 06:04, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Reminded me of this episode from 1993. Hack (talk) 01:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

The videos look good! My suggestions for the next videos would be the Mitchell Freeway in Perth (Narrows interchange to GFF), Kwinana Freeway (crossing the Mount Henry Bridge), and The Causeway. These are our highest rated road articles at the moment (GA for Mitchell Freeway and Causeway, B-class for Kwinana Freeway – though I intend to nominate it for GA soon). Other suggestions would be streets in Fremantle (could tie in nicely with Freopedia), Great Eastern Highway in Greenmount (going by the truck arrestor bed), through Kings Park (Fraser Avenue), the hamburger roundabout at Alexander Drive/Morley Drive, the other bridges crossing the Swan River. I know that's a lot (and I could probably suggest a dozen more if you wanted me to), but any that do get around to filming would be greatly appreciated. - Evad37 (talk) 05:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Dogbones at Karel Ave n Roe, or Tonkin n Caufield as well.. Dog bone would be easy to just do a complete loop, but the Hamburger what approach, Morley dve from west/east into alexander then loop around back to the same direction on Morley dve or would say a right off turn morley onto alexander be enough... Gnangarra 06:04, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest a right turn from Alexander to Morley, and second "right turn" from Morley to Alexander (like this on google maps) - Evad37 (talk) 06:41, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Some suggestions - Northbridge - day time and night William Street from Bulwer intersection to Riverside Drive, Riverside Drive day and night from Causeway to Mt Eliza (and other way) before riverside drive gets more advanced development - also second the idea of the Freo streets sats 10:11, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Talking of Freo, it's worth checking out Micko's Horse and Cart Tour from 1982. It seems that boring videos only become interesting after about thirty years. :-) Sam Wilson 08:32, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Meet up reminder

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/10 - today, 1pm, Dome Maylands, which is in the Heritage-registered Penninsula Hotel opposite the Maylands Train Station. - Evad37 (talk) 01:30, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

More Videos

Here are some more videos

Kwinana Freeway travelling south from South Street, exit onto Roe Highway eastbound

Causeway southbound exit to canning hwy west

maybe a dolphin swimming in Fremantle harbour at sunset is more your speed

feed back always appreciated, thanks Gnangarra 11:58, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

another one Kwinana Freeway driving south bound across Mt Henry bridge Gnangarra 12:19, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

been busy another one driving north on the Kwinana Freeway through Como with Mandurah Line Train heading towards Mandurah Gnangarra 12:43, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Watchfulness on suburbs

Been away a fair bit lately and probably will continue to be ... but we have a troll making sometimes reasonable and sometimes blatantly ridiculous changes to directional boxes on suburb articles. The user uses various ranges of IP addresses as well as the username User:Moherwinkle. I reverted some of them this morning (I think all are now fixed) - worth being vigilant. Special:RecentChangesLinked/List_of_Perth_suburbs allows tracking. Orderinchaos 21:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

please - could someone else look as well ? sats 06:37, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Lee Steere (surname)

Should this be renamed just "Lee Steere" or "Lee Steere family"?

Bonus points for someone who can find a reference to link the 1848 High Sheriff of Surrey to the same family. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:21, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I found the Sheriff ref in Wikisource. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

well  Done = another feather in the cap sats 04:10, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Even more videos

Some videos I made of streets in Fremantle:

• High Street
• Queen Victoria Street (Fremantle Traffic Bridge)
• Mouat Street
• Stirling Highway
  (Stirling Bridge)
• Adelaide Street
• Henry Street
• Phillimore Street

I have a couple more videos almost ready, but commons takes ages to upload them. - Evad37 (talk) 10:02, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

6PR

Needs a watch - someone please...sats 13:03, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problems with unpublished photos that are PD in Aus

Came across this FfD linked from WP:AWNB. It seems we have to be careful if uploading old unpublished photos – apparently, for an unpublished work to be PD in the US, the author must have died before 1943 (70 years ago), or if that is unknown, anonymous, made for hire, etc. its not PD unless it was made before 1893 (120 years ago). - Evad37 (talk) 06:13, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd take the interpretation with a grain of salt, as the reference is to a site that quotes Wikipedia as its source.... neither the site nor Wikipedia quoted page actually refers to any case law to support this interpretation. I have yet see any case law stated that supported this POV, though there have been decisions that support the way we interpreted... Gnangarra 11:15, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Meet up reminder...

... Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/11 – this Saturday, 1:30pm, Aroma Cafe at the State Library of Western Australia. - Evad37 (talk) 11:05, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Waroona

Following fresh on the heals of Freopedia I been talking to many people one of the first to jump on board is Waroona. I'm happy to announce that on the 23rd November 2013 Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Waroona will take place. The Waroona Visitors centre is going to host a fantastic event for everyone who attends culminating in a BBQ at the end of the day. Hope everyone can make it. Gnangarra 12:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Going, going...

Apparently the Burswood Dome is being deflated today ahead of it's demolition. Anyone able to get a photo of it on the way down? The-Pope (talk) 00:21, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

gone well the roof anyway, I couldnt get there.. Gnangarra 09:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Perthnow

Just went to PerthNow and found its no longer freely accessible, you are required to login(free) but it also has a paid subscription service so as I'm not doing either can only assume that it should not be used as a source. Gnangarra 07:49, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Users citing PerthNow would just need to add a {{Subcription needed}} tag. It's still ok as a source per WP:PAYWALL. Hack (talk) 11:13, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Probably a question more for the Australian noticeboard, but has any official approach from WMAU been made to News Corp as to them opening up their archives to be freely available, as Fairfax have done, or at least have a 1 month expiry on articles for the need to be registered. They can do what they want with current news, but old news is really only useful to us. The-Pope (talk) 11:55, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

The Sunday Times (which shares a lot of PerthNow content) is available via EBSCOhost (With a National Library of Australia library card or SLWA library card) or Factiva (with a NLA card). Hack (talk) 13:01, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

South Fremantle, Western Australia

Whilst I am sure the South Fremantle community is very vibrant, the article for it probably doesn't need to be so glowing. - Mark 09:52, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

That is a hilarious article. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:05, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Mark, long time no see these whereabouts, thanks for the note - Drovers Wife, the operative point, it was - sats 15:56, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

LOL, that is funny! (Read an old diff and it's mad - even if not AS mad as the old Winthrop page from 2007, which is possibly my favourite Perth article on Wikipedia.) Orderinchaos 13:09, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Mandurah

Is Mandurah part of Perth? Should File:Perth from air.jpg be cropped? - discussion is at Template talk:Hospitals in Perth - Evad37 (talk) 13:50, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

the best to answer this is orderinchaos as he has had to deal with issues of what constitutes the metro area, perth, etc etc over the last 5 years or more... from a personal interpretation I would say no. sats 14:47, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

From someone who knows - Mandurah is not part of the Perth Metropolitan Region. Mandurah is part of the Peel Region which includes Mandurah, (Murray) Pinjarra, Waroona and Boddington. The boundary of Perth currently stops immediately south of Singleton. Dan arndt (talk) 01:55, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

The ABS Greater Capital City Statistical Area includes Mandurah as part of Greater Perth. I'd suggest the Metropolitan Region Scheme designation referred to by Dan is more meaningful though. Hack (talk) 02:28, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't question Dan's expertise on the matter, but it would be helpful if Perth#Geology and landforms included a direct reference to support its statement that "The metropolitan area extends to ... Rockingham to the south, ...". A map showing the boundaries would be nice.

(Also note my recent edit.) Mitch Ames (talk) 02:33, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

A3 map of the metropolitan area as per MRS. Link for ABS Greater Perth region.

From the Planning WA website:

"The Metropolitan Region Scheme (MRS) is a large town planning scheme for land use in the Perth metropolitan area.

This area stretches from Singleton in the south to Two Rocks in the north and east to The Lakes."

- "Metropolitan Region Scheme". PlanningWA. Government of Western Australia. Retrieved 25 July. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)

Hack (talk) 03:09, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I've cropped File:Perth from air.jpg. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I got here late but I agree with Dan Arndt's view. Orderinchaos 15:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Perth

Currently some enthusiasts are changing Perth, Western Australia to Perth as if they have no knowledge of the pendulum of the crises of the past. I would be interested if anyone here has an issue with that? I would have thought leaving the Perth, Western Australia link should be allowed to stay as is. Who knows when the pendulium might change... sats 05:51, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Can we have a diff link please, so we know exactly what edit(s) - or at least what article(s) - you're talking about. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:12, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I think sats is talking about changing links like [[Perth, Western Australia|Perth]] to [[Perth]] (see Special:Contributions/Schwede66, 00:15 – 00:24 5 August 2013 (UTC)). I seem to recall something else happening a few months (or more) ago, with someone changing [[Perth, Western Australia|Perth]], [[Western Australia]] to just [[Perth, Western Australia]]. I can't remember which article(s?), but there was apparently some guideline regarding consecutive links. - Evad37 (talk) 14:05, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

"... some guideline regarding consecutive links" - WP:SEAOFBLUE. Mitch Ames (talk) 22:33, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Meetup reminder

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/12 is this Saturday, in case anyone's forgotten. 1:30 pm, Aroma Cafe in the State Library of Western Australia. (I suspect some of the above topics will be talked about) - Evad37 (talk) 09:12, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Lead of Winthrop Avenue

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, place it just below the box.

---

A new user, Dagsorter, and I have been discussing the lead of Winthrop Avenue, particularly in regards to mentions of the suburb Nedlands, what with the road being in the City of Subiaco, and having nothing to do with the City of Nedlands. Would one (or more) of you care to go over to User talk:Dagsorter (where the discussion has been taking place) and give an opinion? Thanks, Evad37 (talk) 04:57, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

What's a mall?

I've just updated the Perth (suburb) page with a couple of malls not listed (James Street and Museum Street). According to the entry for mall, a pedestrian street could be classified a mall. For the purposes of updating the article, would inclusion of laneways that formerly carried traffic (eg Shafto Lane) be justified? Hack (talk) 05:55, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps it might be better to limit the entries to streets that previously carried a significant amount of traffic (eg Forrest Palce) and/or in which the mall breaks a significant vehicle thoroughfare (eg Hay, Murray). I don't know whether Shafto ever carried significant amounts of vehicle traffic. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:27, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps we need a list-type article, if anyone feels like creating a List of pedestrian malls in Perth (which could cover the whole metro area). - Evad37 (talk) 16:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Perth is on the Main Page

Moondyne (talk) 00:06, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

For those interested

A new project - a new 'Wiki Takes' - one that will stretch out over time and places, is the Wikipedia:Wiki Takes Western Australian Wheatbelt Railways 2013 - is in the process of being started up, with an initial 'takes' occurring last Wednesday.

Any suggestions, or offers of help - please contact satusuro 01:01, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Further takes events are about to happen over the next few weeks due to the imminent closures of lines ! Please contact the participants regarding the takes events or check the takes event pages satusuro 08:34, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Connected with the above: this is related

Rural Community Engagement - which is related to the larger Wheatbelt Project of which the above wiki takes is a component part.

Any comments, suggestions, support, etc for the two projects located here on WP en, - or the Meta wiki proposal (Rural Community Engagement) would be appreciated.

Thanks satusuro 13:21, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Meetup 13

I know we chose 18th January 2013 for meetup 13 but how about we move to two weeks later to 1 Febraury 2014, which will be the 7th anniversary of WA's first meetup Gnangarra 13:03, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Good idea satusuro 13:17, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay with me. Bahnfrend (talk) 15:10, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

No probs here... perhaps even appropriate that there is a change of date from January to February... but I don't know what the chances are of us blowing off the library and heading to a bar instead - Evad37 (talk) 07:52, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

This suggestion has been indicated at the meetup 13 page as well satusuro 08:01, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

January would have been better for me, but I can try for the February if I am not in Israel or Africa. 06:39, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Complete set of "Islands of Western Australia" sub-categories

A discussion was taking place on my talk page regarding the following. I'm moving the discussion here for anyone else that may have an opinion on the matter. Hughesdarren (talk) 22:44, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

I (Pdfpdf (talk)) am looking for a complete set of sub-categories into which I can plonk each of the 1,000+ Islands of Western Australia. My current preference is to add to the subordinate categories in Category:Islands of Western Australia to have a complete set. Currently that category already contains "Island" entries for 8 of the 10 "Regions of Western Australia":

• Category:Islands of the Gascoyne (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Goldfields-Esperance region (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Great Southern (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Kimberley (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Mid West (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Perth region (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Pilbara (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the South West (Western Australia)‎

I'm soliciting opinions regarding my opinion/suggestion.

I realise/acknowledge that there are a variety of options/alternatives. To me, the advantage of adding the other 2

• Category:Islands of the Peel (Western Australia)
• Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia)

and using these ten is that the other 8 are already there, already in use, and already populated. Any alternative / "better" scheme is yet to be defined, and will require a migration. So why not use this set until such time as there's consensus for a better scheme?

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:33, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

As the editors who were are around in the early days rarely visit here any more, I should put in 2 bobs worth - Islands and things were in a massive list - as we have a long coast.

Then some time later we had the article Coastline of Western Australia which showed that there are quite a few different ways of separating out the regions, some quite colourful marketing terminology (Sunset Coast?), and otherwise quite sound associative terms (Eucla Coast).

Also the coast regions exist in the IMCRA tyoplogy, but that is not a completed article, and at this stage doesnt clearly indicate the coastal regions for the punter.

The proposal above more or less completely ignores the possible coastal region names and simply ties in the related land regions as designated for the state. For the reader, if they are looking at an article about a regional subject, we do have the land regions as a category. As a consequence, with the reader in mind, the land region tying into islands off the coast does not create a serious problem, as if when a series of articles and or categories are ever created about the individual coastal regions, the fit is not that bad. It is manageable, put it that way.

In other words - ideally the islands should relate to coastal regions, not land regions - but if for the moment there is easy consensus I can see utility rises before actual existence of problematic things like South coast of Western Australia and other small interferences, which can be accomodated. satusuro 00:59, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Why not have categories for the coastal regions as well as the land regions? - Evad37 (talk) 14:00, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

As there seems to be a push for the keep it simple approach for the categories for the islands, and the drift towards sizing up against the land regions... as I have stated above, actual defined in WP:RS, coastal regions are another thing again.

I have the distinct impression that actually nutting out coast region categories, if anything like the current deconstruction of sources and meanings here and elsewhere, that the IMCRA and multifarious options offered by various bodies at Coastal_regions_of_Western_Australia might stretch out beyond practicality. I have a very decided personal preference for the BOM delineations, and think they would be the most recognisable, the coast region map even has the borders identified whatsmore. Ideally the coastal regions as defined by the IMCRA should be more clearly defined at the IMCRA article, it remains inopmplete. satusuro 14:28, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

It certainly seems more sensible to categorise islands by coastal region than by land region. If nothing else it eliminates the problem of the non-existent Perth RDCA region. But how will we categorise Heirisson Island? Mitch Ames (talk) 14:27, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

The problem is the coastal regions are obscure enough to not be recognisable to most readers - e.g. a report might say "from Bremer Bay to Israelite Bay" but most would not know that BOM internally call that the "Esperance Coast". Some of the land regions are, but others are ridiculous (e.g. Wheatbelt, whose coast is the Shires of Gingin and Dandaragan). My proposed solution is a mix - use the well known and understood Pilbara and Kimberley regions, but use Indian Ocean islands for the western coastline and Southern Ocean coastline for the southern, and a sub-category within Indian Ocean for the islands of the Perth metropolitan region (which is defined). It best accommodates the needs without either obscurely named or overly populated categories, and allows for interaction with the Category:Islands by ocean or sea hierarchy. Orderinchaos 08:24, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Mixing it all up like that imho just makes things messier. Consistency as evad has suggested is better in the long run. I dont think we should orient to oceans as Order suggests as it drags in the long term arguments about whether the southern ocean exists, and where the indian starts and finishes. As this is just about islands - the land based regions, are worth considering. As to whether any reader is confused - the map as put in the coastal region map - should fix it for anyone. it is good. satusuro 00:02, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Fair point re oceans, although kind of sad that it is that way on here! If we need a map to explain it to readers, it's already too complicated and we have failed the basic WP:CAT test. We're subject specialists, they're not. And "Islands of the Wheatbelt region" is more than a tad odd and would be seen as such to readers... especially given they're all in one short stretch of coastline from Perth's northern extent to Jurien Bay. The two shires in question are only allocated to the Wheatbelt region by the WA government due to their inability to fit into any other region when WA was divided up in 1983. One possible solution to keep a consistent region-based system is to break this one region up by shire. Orderinchaos 01:41, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you gentlemen.

• Orderinchaos: I shudder at your proposed "Wheatbelt" solution. Would/does: Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt region (Western Australia) address your concerns?

Gotta admit that I'm disappointed that in my absence you guys (who, after all, are the "topic experts"), have yet to come up with any solution at all, much less a simpler or a better solution than my suggestion.
Until such time as you can reach a consensus, I'm inclined to "get on with it", extend the current 8 to 10 categories, and start "plonking". When you eventually reach consensus, THEN (if necessary) things can be changed.

Are there any violent objections to me populating the 10 proposed (by me) categories in the interim period? Pdfpdf (talk) 14:12, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

There is no deadline on wikipedia and yes I do object, and if there was a post-creation CFD issue, XFD is not a nice place at the best of times, and threads can go haywire there very easily. Despite my suggestion that land regions might be useable, quite clearly there seems to be very little thought by any other editors of the ramifications of tying coastal features into land categories. It is a pity that the usual suspects in the wa project are simply not with us any more in discussions like this. There is an article called Coastal regions of Western Australia, I dont see any land regions being used there, to use land regions for islands will require a significant contributuon to that article to rationalise such an odd approach.

The recognisability which Orderinchaos has suggested over the more obscure (possibly) coastal regions names, as well his mention of the WP:CAT test, can from one perspective be seen as more or less keeping the whole thing unreasonably restricted on making assumptions about geographically challenged readers. The coastal regions exist - and could be tied in or mentioned at the land cat correlations, is a possible part solution, but I would suggest lack of any other editors comments means it is on hold. I created the coastal region article, as well as other articles that are connected in various ways, and the lack of any other comments other than orderinchaos means that I personally would have serious reservations about further urgent editing at this stage.satusuro 15:21, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I would suggest there is no need to get on with anything, and that there is indeed a wait to see if any other editors have any ideas

Pdfpdf, ((not violently of course, but) I object to the "10 proposed (by [you]) categories", assuming they are the previously discussed 9 RDCA regions plus Perth. As I've said previously, Perth is not an RDCA region; dividing the coast into 10 regions, 9 of which are RDCA and one that is not, may mislead the reader into thinking that Perth is also an RDCA region. There's also the problem that the "Perth region" is not (so far as I can see) defined. Actually, not all of the other 9 categories are defined either. Category:Islands of the Gascoyne (Western Australia) has a hat note referring the reader to Gascoyne (Western Australia), but Category:Islands of the Goldfields-Esperance region (Western Australia) has no such "definition". I think that, if we keep those categories (which I don't agree with), they should have a {{category explanation}} and perhaps {{cat main}}. {{category explanation}} is required because {{cat main}} alone is not sufficient - the article typically is not going to mention islands at all. Also there is the issue of whether the islands are actually part of the regions. The RDC Act, defines in Schedule 1 each region as a collection of local government districts. Can we state for certain that each of those islands is within the LGA? Mitch Ames (talk) 11:56, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

This is getting to be far too long, please will some very kind person archive this page when this is resolved. On a very careful thought of this issue and the time and space it is taking, I suggest that we do the following.

Create a set of five articles that link intrinsically to Coastal regions of Western Australia, then create categories that are eponymous with the articles, and the articles can carry all the various obscure naming issues.

• South coast of Western Australia already exists, so that does Eucla to Cape Leeuwin.
• Kimberley coast of Western Australia is self evident
• Pilbara coast of Western Australia is also a carry on from North West Western Australia as far as Exmouth.
• South west coast of Western Australia Cape Leeuwin to Perth
• Central west coast of Western Australia?? Perth to Exmouth

This way the articles and subsequent categories are linked with no unnecsarry playing with the actual coastal regions as found onthe IMCRA, or the land regions.

All the various obscure names and variants and issues can be contained in these articles and categories, and given time, could be much easier for the reader, who has no suprises when confronted by the real life complexity of the coastline... the map I like the most (and produced by WA planning commission) on has 34 separate segments, and I have been told on wiki and off wiki it is unfriendly to offer these to the reader as a possible template/schema for understanding the coatline. I think it is dumbing things down, but there we are a suggested solution. Trust this might get closer to a more acceptable solution. thanks satusuro 12:13, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

after a long search, found a very sensible coastal region pamphlet from 1980/1983, will pursue the subject further at the talk page of Coastal regions of Western Australia, if you dont mind - see you there, thanks satusuro 13:31, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

100 most notable western australian business persons

The west's latest 100 people - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Western_Australia/100_Most_Influential_Western_Australians satusuro 13:29, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Lets make Perth a GA again

It has been almost exactly 6 years since Perth was delisted as no longer meeting good article standards, and I think its about time that we get it back up to scratch and renominated. I've made a number of edits to the article today [5], is anyone interested in helping out? The biggest issue at the moment is sourcing/verifiability – there are a number of citation needed tags and unreferenced paragraphs. - Evad37 (talk) 10:59, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately most of the usual suspects at this page from that time no longer edit collaboratively in this project anymore, they dive in very rarely. It would be great if they could come back, but hey, for some it is almost years since they commented here. It would be really good if we could get the article up to a higher standard, but it (help) might be from only a few editors. sats 15:03, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

In my opinion it lacks focus and almost needs a rewrite. Orderinchaos 07:41, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I've rewritten the Culture section, which I think was the most problematic – before, after (though it could still use some tweaking, and I will be adding more refs). Other areas will probably be rewritten as they are expanded with more content, some such as the Governance section seem particularly short). Are there any other (hopefully slightly more specific) comments or concerns? Even if you (anyone reading this) don't want to fix it yourself, having a worklist with items that can be checked off might make things easier. - Evad37 (talk) 15:02, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I've added empty subsections for primary and secondary education. Any contributions to these or other sections would be appreciated. - Evad37 [talk] 04:16, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I have repurposed the previously mostly empty to-do list for Perth, any help (or any additional tasks) would be much appreciated - Evad37 [talk] 03:38, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Freopedia listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Freopedia. Since you had some involvement with the Freopedia redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). See also the entry above for the redirect Freopedia project. - Evad37 [talk] 05:16, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

How important are these guys?

There are only 17 articles – mostly bios & BLPs – with unassessed importance for WP:WA. If someone or someones would be kind enough to pass judgement over these poor souls, by filling in or adding the |WA-importance= parameter in the talk page banner, then we could have all articles assessed for both quality and importance for probably the first time ever. - Evad37 [talk] 15:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

• Talk:Ross Ainsworth  Done
• Talk:Jeremy Allanson  Done
• Talk:Andrew Beech (judge)  Done - Evad37 [talk] 09:11, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Browse Island  Done - Evad37 [talk] 16:00, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Michael Corboy  Done
• Talk:William Henry Drake  Done
• Talk:James Edelman  Done
• Talk:Stephen Hall (judge)  Done - Evad37 [talk] 09:11, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Lindy Jenkins  Done - Dan arndt (talk) 02:00, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Kenneth Martin (judge)  Done - Evad37 [talk] 09:11, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Robert Mazza  Done
• Talk:Carmel McLure  Done - Dan arndt (talk) 02:04, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Graeme Murphy (judge)  Done - Evad37 [talk] 09:11, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:David Newnes  Done
• Talk:Janine Pritchard  Done - Dan arndt (talk) 02:09, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
• Talk:Christopher Pullin  Done
• Talk:Hilda Turnbull  Done - Dan arndt (talk) 01:57, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

It's actually been zero or close to zero for quite a while now. I think one of the "old bunch" of OIC, Moondyne or Hesp (apologies if it was someone else) used to keep the unassessed cats empty. I gave it a whack back in November, and most of these ones were just tagged yesterday. The-Pope (talk) 17:05, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Usual suspects please (we happen to be a mix of old...and young, and yes it was Moondyne who used to...) happy christmas to them all (they do all have this on watch but are generally otherwise involved these days)... satusuro 00:30, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, in any case, we've collectively done well getting it down from 260 at the start of the year – I've been working at it slowly, just doing blocks of about 10 to 20 articles at a time when I feel like it. :) - Evad37 [talk] 09:21, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

 Fixed satusuro 15:40, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Perth Water and categories

Western Australian editors are invited to contribute to discussions at:

• Talk:Perth Water#See also
• Category talk:Perth waterfront#Category description, see also, main article

Mitch Ames (talk) 08:27, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Bored, break getting to you? dont want to converse, but do something?

Western Australian project watchers maybe you to could get a sense of getting somewhere by helping reduce the cleanup backup - http://toolserver.org/~svick/CleanupListing/CleanupListingByCat.php?project=Western%20Australia#Articles%20lacking%20sources - intiriguing what slips through the net with no one going back to articles from, yes 2006 and 2007... satusuro 00:56, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Categories

Very few people bave categories on their watch lists, quite wisely, very strange things happen on them at times.

[6] might be of interest to some though, a somewhat problematic over-reaction to a small (700 is small in wp en perspective) category collection, and unlikely to grow considering how few eds are creating new people stubs these days.

Wishing all fellow WA/Perth users (and the larger number of watchers) the best for the new year. satusuro 02:40, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Anyone (West Australians or others) who wants to see - and help resolve - some very strange Commons category things is invited to join in at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Categories_for_discussion/2013/06/Category:ISO_8601 Mitch Ames (talk) 15:12, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Perth Road AfD

Outram Street, West Perth whilst only a stub has been put up for deletion. If I had better access than via my iPhone I'd try and improve it - anyone else interested? Dan arndt (talk) 09:14, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Toodyay articles need help

Several Toodyay-related articles created by new user Machyl.Eberle need expansion with details to demonstrate notability, see Special:Contributions/Machyl.Eberle for the articles. - Evad37 [talk] 07:30, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I spent the day at Toodyay teaching the user how to create articles, basic layout, infoboxes, ref formatting etc he'll be teaching others so as to enable the creation of foundation articles for Toodyay's QRcoding projects, all help is welcome. Gnangarra 08:24, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Another user Elrebe56 has also started on article creation related to Toodyay, yes it is two different people, I was teaching them at the Toodyay Tourist Centre on 8th. Gnangarra 14:10, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Meetup reminder

The Perth 7th anniversary meetup is this Saturday Feb 1st, 1:30 pm, Aroma Cafe in the State Library of Western Australia. - Evad37 [talk] 11:05, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Second opinion needed

Slightly related to above discussion. See [7] and artwork tiled "Proposed Loretto Convent at Claremont". Is this a concept drawing of a completely new building, or of a renovation of the Osborne Hotel, or is it a poor quality photograph of the hotel? Moondyne (talk) 06:56, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I would say it is a concept drawing as SLWA's photo looks like this, which is similar to the image in the Loreto Convent article. Another image can be found here and here. Does that help? Dan arndt (talk) 07:19, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Cavanah & Cavanah

After seeing and creating articles related to Freopedia and Toodyay, I noticed that Cavanah & Cavanah appear as architects of a number of buildings ranging from 1890-1940's all of these are now heritage listed If any wants a challenge these guys would be worth looking into. Gnangarra 18:53, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Cavanagh & Cavanagh? Potentially useful online sources here:

• "Western Australian Architecture. M.F. Cavanagh, A.R.I.B.A. (London), and J. C. Cavanagh. Architects,". Western Mail (Perth, WA : 1885 - 1954). Perth, WA: National Library of Australia. 10 December 1897. p. 195 Edition: CHRISTMAS. Retrieved 13 January 2014.
• "Michael Francis Cavanagh" (PDF). Twentieth Century Impressions of Western Australia. 1901. p. 394.
• Dr Dorothy Erickson (2010). "Michael F. Cavanagh b. 1860 Beechworth, VIC". Design and Art Australia Online.

I think Michael was a PCC councillor in 1900. Possibly an MLA also but I'm not certain; can someone check Black and Bolton please? I'll have a crack at it sometime if someone else doesn't first. Moondyne (talk) 00:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Happy to give it a crack Moondyne - am partial to anything architectural - have started with Michael Cavanagh (architect) as he appears the more notable of the two brothers.Dan arndt (talk) 01:58, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Excellent work. Thanks mate. Moondyne (talk) 10:22, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Agree - very high standard kept up there... satusuro 10:35, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Awesome, Gnangarra 11:33, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.Dan arndt (talk) 09:31, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

• Dan why not WP:DYK it Gnangarra 00:11, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Check Talk:Michael Cavanagh (architect) - made the DYK today.Dan arndt (talk) 07:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Haha yeah I noticed should have checked that first Gnangarra 09:07, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

time machine

Just think in 1962 this was taken 50 years later we get to use it and a few more. I have about 1000 from that period to work thru... Gnangarra 09:09, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Bandicoot Bar, Ord river before construction of dam started

Whim Creek Hotel

In news that is more positive than the section above, it looks like the historic Whim Creek Hotel is going to be restored and reopened [8]. Anyone fancy writing an article? There's already some info to start off with in Whim Creek, Western Australia#Whim_Creek_Hotel (but its unsourced). - Evad37 [talk] 08:17, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Some refs ... Mitch Ames (talk) 08:26, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

The hotel's location is 20.840484°S 117.836219°E / -20.840484; 117.836219, 1km NE of the mine, according to http://crcleme.org.au/RegExpOre/WhimCreek.pdf, but a more direct ref for the exact location would be nice. (Google's streeview doesn't go there, but there's not much else in the satellite images that could be a hotel!)

Note that this is not consistent with Whim Creek, Western Australia#Whim Creek Hotel's "The building was erected at its current site on the banks of Whim Creek". Mitch Ames (talk) 08:50, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

tricky, the north west coastal highway when travveling north had a sharp left hand turn specifically at the hotel in the 1970s, the highway has since been re-aligned. I suspect we need to have someone who has personally experienced the building in the very recent to ascertain the specific location of the alledged hotel. There may be a number of things happen to either the hotel, the name of a building, and also the damage from cyclones that have passed through in the last 40 years... satusuro 09:43, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

aure your not thinking about Roebourne, Western Australia for the that turn.. Gnangarra 11:01, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

In 1970 the whim creek pub was at the corner of a 90 degree turn, and had a camel that drank beer. satusuro 11:49, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

A totally unreliable online source claims:

In 1870 an alcoholic camel stole so much beer that the townsfolk set up a pub to keep it out. Unfortunately, this flimsy tin building then got smashed by a cyclone by 1890, again in 1950 and again in 1996! The owners gave up hope and left, and the camel died of liver failure. wow the camel and beer story seems to permeate the story of the place. satusuro 11:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps alcoholic camels are endemic in that area. In 2006 a former owner mentioned a camel who liked his drink.[9] Hack (talk) 15:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Pictures in Cottesloe, etc

Hello. I am happy to take pictures in Cottesloe this week. Also possibly in Subiaco and Peppermint Grove (if I find an easy way to get there). I will look around and see where there is a lack of pictures on wikimedia commons, but you might know better, so feel free to make suggestions. I will also probably make my way to Freemantle and Rottnest Island, so could take more pictures there. Limited access to the internet, so not ideal to find good citations for now--but once I have access to the internet more, I will work on that too. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:41, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

You missed the meetup on Saturday the 1st - you could have had the pleasure of meeting with real live wikipedian editors. Fremantle does not and hasnt had 2 es. Message at your talk page. satusuro 04:03, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Transport in Perth, Western Australia

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Transport in Perth, Western Australia. (a proposed move to "Transport in Perth") - Evad37 [talk] 01:22, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Peters Ice Cream Factory

Just saw a post on Facebook that Perth City Council were considering a proposal to demolition the Peters factory (Michelides Factory), cnr Roe & Lake St, at a committee meeting tonight. Apparently it is only one of a handful of Art Deco buildings in Perth. Need to look at an article with photos before it goes.Dan arndt (talk) 08:31, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

agree an article is needed satusuro 10:49, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Created a rough stub at Michelides Tobacco Factory. Hack (talk) 12:44, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

While these buildings later became part of the Peters factory, it seems the Peters factory began at the corner of Roe and Milligan and expanded eastward toward Lake Street, taking in the Michelides factory after it stopped production. Also, can I upload any of the pictures at [10] (postcard-sized answers please). Hack (talk) 15:21, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

With regards to the photos, you have to make sure they PD in both Australia and in the US (unless otherwise suitably licensed, or covered by fair use / WP:NFCC). I made a table at commons:User:Evad37/sandbox that lists the different cases and the tags to use. - Evad37 [talk] 15:46, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

The building has again been approved for demolition.[11] Hack (talk) 02:17, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

A number of us will be in the area on Feb 1st, so that will be an opportunity to walk down and take some photos before its all gone. - Evad37 [talk] 02:39, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

The article should be appearing on the main page as part of DYK in the next day, Hack (talk) 07:13, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Missing people

looking through stuff related to Toodyay, I noticed that the Dempster family is poorly covered. Yet we have James Dempster who built the first buildings on Rottenest plus skipper of the Eagle which brought settlers to WA in 1829, father of Charles Dempster and Andrew Dempster both explorers notable for finding gold bearing country near Yilgarn and creating an overland route between Esperance and Perth, among other things. Anyway if you are of want for something to get your teeth into heres a starting point http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/dempster-andrew-3881 Gnangarra 09:43, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update

As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at tools:~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at toollabs:popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man) 05:33, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Bus trip -- reminder

Just a quick reminder Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/Bus 1, Toodyay is just 7 days away, if you havent already please send me an email and/or add yourself to the list if you want to join us. We have a full day planned in Toodyay including access to nonpublic areas of the museums and shire as well as locals who are keen to help and want to learn about writing articles. Gnangarra 12:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Perth

I think we should reconsider naming as it looks like Perth, Tasmania is the notable topic https://twitter.com/denhamsadler/status/446888251907780608 Gnangarra 12:50, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Ha! Terrific. And I hope they find something in the "seach area". Sam Wilson 23:50, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Meetup 15

Just letting everyone know that we have a place and time for WP:Meetup/Perth/15, Toodyay Bakery on the balcony where we had lunch during the bus trip Gnangarra 15:58, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Popular stubs

If anyone has the time or inclination, these popular stubs from the list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Popular pages (which I just discovered, and have now linked to in the To-do list above) would be good targets for expansion. The ones below had an average of between 70 and 1472 page views per day over March. - Evad37 [talk] 03:17, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

• Lake Hillier
• Matty B
• Pink Lake (Western Australia)
• Luke Steele (musician)
• Len Buckeridge
• New Holland (Australia)
• Pintupi Nine
• Operation Hurricane
• Fortescue Metals Group
• Bradshaw rock paintings
• Jasper Jones
• Tame Impala EP
• Western Australian state election, 2013
• Daniel De Silva
• Banjawarn station
• Pink lake - Disambiguation page or stub?
• Marron
• Thales Australia
• Tom Price, Western Australia
• Seville Grove, Western Australia

Untagged and struck Pink lake and Thales Australia -- not WA project specific. Moondyne (talk) 12:56, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to User Study

Would you be interested in participating in a user study? We are a team at University of Washington studying methods for finding collaborators within a Wikipedia community. We are looking for volunteers to evaluate a new visualization tool. All you need to do is to prepare for your laptop/desktop, web camera, and speaker for video communication with Google Hangout. We will provide you with a Amazon gift card in appreciation of your time and participation. For more information about this study, please visit our wiki page (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Finding_a_Collaborator). If you would like to participate in our user study, please send me a message at Wkmaster (talk) 03:00, 19 April 2014 (UTC).

Glimmer of interest -- help wanted

Jane Swain Adams (1851-1934) born in Toodyay, http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/adams-jane-swain-12765 looking for sourcing, settle in the Nungarin area 1875(35 years before town established) was known as Granny Adams. Gnangarra 10:55, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Here's a couple of links:

• "WHEATBELT PIONEER". The West Australian (Perth, WA : 1879 - 1954). Perth, WA: National Library of Australia. 24 January 1935. p. 9. Retrieved 20 April 2014.
• http://traces.duit.uwa.edu.au/list_property?id=785
• mentioned in speech by nationals MLC Mia Davies: http://www.nationalswa.com/News/Speeches/tabid/84/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1420/Hon-Mia-Davies-MLC-official-opening-address-at-Dowerin-GWN-Machinery-Field-Day.aspx

- Evad37 [talk] 11:52, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Google turns up a few results, including:

• http://www.raswa.org.au/agricultural-hall-of-fame/2003/adams-jane-swain.aspx
• http://adamswa.com/history/extract-from-the-book-the-golden-west-and-how-it-was-discovered-by-mr-dick-greaves/
• http://www.bradyfamilytree.org/genealogy/familygroup.php?familyID=F7973&tree=BRADY2008

(Best write the article soon, or at least get another article to link to it, lest someone notice this addition to a disambiguation page of a red link that isn't used in any article.) Mitch Ames (talk) 14:03, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Stub created. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, I have been expanding it Gnangarra 15:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

The History section of [12] (added to the Adams article) has some useful information on the Adams, as well as the homestead. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:27, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Categorization of homesteads, pastoral leases and stations

WA editors, in particular, are invited to comment at WP:AWNB#Categorization of homesteads, pastoral leases and stations. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:20, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

I fail to see why it need to go to AWNB. The 'fit' between the categorizations does not allow any easy fit, and should be left as is. satusuro 09:56, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

I raised it at AWNB because there are pastoral lease categories for other states whose content articles are also in redundant categories. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:27, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Robert William Hay

Hi. Feel free to expand this page I created for the namesake of Hay Street, Perth. Also if someone is able to add a picture with a copyright waiver, that would be wonderful. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:15, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Fremantle Quiz Note

Late notice - but also FYI for fellow Freopedia editors - Wednesday night... https://www.facebook.com/fremantleasitwas

also see for further discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiTown/Freopedia#Know_your_Freo_History.3F

may the best freoenthusiasts do well!! satusuro 14:49, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Clackline Bridge FAC

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Clackline Bridge/archive1. Any additional comments would be appreciated. Thanks. Evad37 [talk] 11:13, 15 May 2014 (UTC)