Talk:2023 Allen, Texas mall shooting/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Photographs

I have discovered a photograph of victims' corpses online, though I haven't uploaded it here because I don't know if it passes the image upload guidelines. I would support including such a photograph, because it would clearly illustrate the shooting, and we use similar photographs on articles such as Katyn massacre, My Lai massacre, and Shadian incident, among others. CJ-Moki (talk) 06:35, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Your "photo", which I have removed, does not show any relevance to the article, let alone an appropriate copyright clearance. WWGB (talk) 06:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

text

Before quotations, take that out. You can insert that between believe and he. 130.51.141.135 (talk) 17:32, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done (but more context would be appreciated in the future - mentioning particular sentences is really helpful) Tollens (talk) 18:03, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know! 130.51.141.135 (talk) 20:50, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

To add to the text of the article

To add to the text of this article (in an effort to make it more properly encyclopedic): the type of weapon that was used. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 15:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2023

A few hours after the shooting occured, The Stonebriar Mall in Frisco, Texas was evacuated after a shopper called 911 that they heard gunshots in the food court. Police searched around the mall for any weapons, but has found nothing, and no one has been wounded or injured. 2600:1700:70D1:8D50:B8D0:994F:4DF5:5C62 (talk) 09:41, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:11, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Since nothing happened, nothing to add to this article. WWGB (talk) 10:30, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Suspect

According to the BBC, the suspect is a male dressed in black. As of this time, his age, name, date of birth, where he originally lived, and early info were not released yet. I knew it was going to be another one of these male suspects shortly before it arrived. Newly-released info from WFAA said that the shooter is in his 30s (according to the FBI), lived with his parents, and lived in the northeast side of Dallas at the time of the shooting, but was unknown how long the shooter lived in Dallas. 2600:1702:5225:C010:304D:114:91CA:FC34 (talk) 12:27, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Very strange how after a day we still don't know much about the shooter, especially with how high profile this incident is. Onion1981 (talk) 17:58, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

?????? Yes we did. Obviously not as much as we do now, now that a few days have passed, but after a day im pretty sure the shooter’s identity was released with a well amount of information about him. B3251 (talk) 11:58, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Who is Mauricio Garcia?

Just wanted to note that The Washington Post is reporting that the acronym mentioned was "RWDS" for "Right Wing Death Squad." Dumuzid (talk) 20:47, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Added. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 00:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you also add his 2008 U.S. Army removal due to Garcia's mental health concerns as well? 2600:1702:5225:C010:A46D:FF24:3135:67F9 (talk) 14:40, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

time zone

Please add CDT to the infobox. 130.51.141.135 (talk) 16:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: The time is already noted as 3:36 p.m. (UTC−5), with the UTC offset indicator reflecting the difference between local time and UTC, and linking to Central Daylight Time. General Ization ^Talk 16:22, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 May 2023

Add information about the aftermath including related shooting threats or false calls, such as the one at Stonebriar Centre or the threats made at Lowery Freshman Center, or Frisco ISD schools that made attendance to those schools optional. Shuwus (talk) 18:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC) Also, that there were other memorials of people gathering outside of the closed shopping mall yesterday that a lot of videos have been shared from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shuwus (talk • contribs) 18:32, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

There's some new known victims, including the pair of siblings that went to school in Wylie. Sofia and Daniela Mendoza. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/texas-mall-shooting-live-updates-rcna83297 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shuwus (talk • contribs) 18:36, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Information about "related shooting threats or false calls" is not particularly relevant to this article. Nor is information about "memorials of people gathering outside of the closed shopping mall yesterday", which is a fairly common reaction by a community to mass shooting events. Some of this content may end up in the article as it evolves, but it should be kept in mind that this is an encyclopedia, not a newspaper. Our focus right now is and should be on the facts of the event itself, not color commentary. General Ization ^Talk 18:41, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 8 May 2023_2

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

2023 Allen, Texas outlet mall shooting → 2023 Texas mall shooting – Per WP:CONCISE. There is not other mall shooting in Texas as of the moment. In the slight chance there is another one, we can disambiguate PalauanReich^🗣️ 22:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose It ain't broke; I see no need to fix it (and having multiple RMs in progress simultaneously is generally a bad idea). General Ization ^Talk 22:24, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Oppose As above, I simply think leaving out "Allen" loses more in precision than it gains in concision. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 22:24, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2023

in the first paragraph, consider changing "5" to "five" as all other numbers listed in the article are full length and not numeric. 38.66.73.5 (talk) 15:52, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done General Ization ^Talk 15:54, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Possible title move: 2023 Allen, Texas shooting

Does 2023 Allen, Texas shooting work as a better, more concise title for the subject? I read the above discussion and understand that the article shouldn't be moved until a decent amount of agreement or time, but in the meanwhile I'd like to evaluate a possible title. OfTheUsername (talk) 05:57, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

If you look at Category:Attacks on shopping malls, most of the titles include reference to a mall or shop name. WWGB (talk) 06:17, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah, thank you, didn't see that. OfTheUsername (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

If anything, it might make more sense to rename this "Allen, Texas outlet mall shooting" or "Allen Premium Outlets shooting", since there isn't another such shooting in another year requiring disambiguation. If you look at other attacks at shopping centers, like Westroads Mall shooting, Trolley Square shooting, or Morumbi Shopping shooting, no year is used in favor of the name of the specific mall. Paris1127 (talk) 16:12, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The year is included regardless of the need to disambiguate, per WP:NCE. —Locke Cole • t • c 16:33, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

From WP:NOYEAR (further down on the WP:NCE page): Some articles do not need a year for disambiguation when, in historic perspective, the event is easily described without it. As this is a judgement call, please discuss it with other editors if there is disagreement. Paris1127 (talk) 17:09, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

in historic perspective *checks watch* It's been less than 24 hours... —Locke Cole • t • c 17:29, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the naming convention for categories, but... that seems very poorly named. Nobody is "attacking" a "shopping mall", if anything they're attacking people in or at a shopping mall. As to the mall name being included in the title of related events, I'd be curious what the sources refer to those events as. I can't imagine they're all using the shopping center name, as that seems far too specific (unless you're a local familiar with that specific mall/outlet/etc. and know it's located in X country, Y city, etc. then it's just a name with no context for the reader of where, generally, the event occurred. —Locke Cole • t • c 16:36, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Allen suspect's Dallas home

The FBI and the Dallas Police Department is currently investigating the suspect's home in Northeast Dallas but was unknown what area or neighborhood the suspect is in before traveling up I-635 and Highway 75 for the shooting. Also, thanks to the video up above, it could be similar to what totally happened in Atlanta a few days ago.

A bit of a possible note that the suspect had suffered mental health problems and reports of unusual behavior, so that gave us a clue. 2600:1702:5225:C010:C10D:B04B:F352:D690 (talk) 16:13, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

We only report what reliable sources state. Not adding. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 16:17, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, but I was just reminding. 2600:1702:5225:C010:C10D:B04B:F352:D690 (talk) 16:18, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The name of the 33-year-old suspect: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mauricio-garcia-allen-texas-mall-shooting-suspect-what-know-rcna83242 173.88.246.138 (talk) 18:39, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

CBS and NBC are both reporting that they were, separately, provided the name—NBC cites "two senior law enforcement officials"; CBS says "multiple sources". I think that's enough to include the name in a statement that officials identified the shooter as the name, but I usually work on articles about really old criminal cases, and I'm not sure the extent to which WP:BLPCRIME applies via WP:BDP, so I'm going to hold off until another editor can offer input.--Jerome Frank Disciple 18:55, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, another user added it.--Jerome Frank Disciple 18:56, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I know, it's identified as 33-year-old Mauricio Garcia (October 24, 1989 – May 6, 2023), a Northeast Dallas resident who lived in a Northwest Dallas motel prior to the time of the shooting. 2600:1702:5225:C010:C10D:B04B:F352:D690 (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Gun control debate

The shopping mall where this shooting took place bans guns.

Source: https://www.simon.com/legal/code-of-conduct

Kyle Becker tweeted, "The Allen Premium Outlets in Texas have a gun-free zone policy. So, we can stop blaming Texas gun laws for the mass shooting tragedy today. We can instead blame the murderer and ask the better question: If there were armed Texans there, would he have been killed sooner?"

Source: https://twitter.com/kylenabecker/status/1655070810061545472

Compare this to the Greenwood Park Mall shooting, where a law abiding gun owner killed the would be mass shooter just seconds after he started shooting. We'll never know how many lives the law abiding gun owner saved.

I think this should be included in the article.

I realize that better sources will be needed. But I wanted to get this discussion started, and to ask people to please be on the lookout for better sources.

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted: "End Gun free zones and allow Americans to protect themselves and others."

Source: https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1655202757119291393

SquirrelHill1971 (talk) 20:41, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

This article is not a vehicle to advance any position, pro or con, on a political issue. Please stay focused on improving the article through the use of reliable sources. Dumuzid (talk) 20:44, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Filmed killings?

The first 30 seconds of this shooting were captured on dashcam video, should the article be included in "Filmed killings" category? Yodabyte (talk) 08:09, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Given the ubiquity of surveillance cameras, dashcams, body-worn cameras and other cameras in public spaces, nearly every killing in such spaces is "filmed" in some sense. I believe the intent of that category was to include killings that were "filmed" or broadcast with intention by the killer(s) and/or sponsors of the killing. I would not think the mere existence of video that captures all or a portion of the killing in this case would justify the inclusion of this event in that category. General Ization ^Talk 14:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Requesting more information about Garcia

Although an officer shot Garcia, do we still count it as "Suicide By Cop?"

Also, can you add Garcia's date of birth (October 24, 1989 – May 6, 2023; according to a Twitter post) in the perpetrator section, as well as Garcia being a Northeast Dallas resident who lived at a Northwest Dallas motel at the time of the shooting, and his 2008 U.S. Army removal due to his mental health concerns?

I know this is not a biography but the page forgot to add a little more of his history, his whereabouts, and where he lived at the time of the shooting. 2600:1702:5225:C010:C10D:B04B:F352:D690 (talk) 02:22, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. voorts (talk/contributions) 02:55, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The citations are listed in blue above. Click on one and it will take you to the page. 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 13:23, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I declined your request for a few reasons. The main reason is that your requests are not in the form of "change X to Y". That is, you should provide suggested wording with proper wiki markup for the cites. See WP:ERSAMPLE for a properly formatted requested edit. Additionally, the first sentence in your comment—"Although an officer shot Garcia, do we still count it as 'Suicide By Cop?'"—is not a specific request. If you'd like other editors to address that question, I would recommend starting a new topic on this page. Finally, a Twitter post is not a reliable source.

Once you've resolved those issues, please feel free to reactivate your request.

Best, voorts (talk/contributions) 21:11, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Just a bit of information

I wanted to note this Twitter thread from a researcher associated with Bellingcat. Obviously nothing usable there currently, but I'd be very surprised if that information doesn't start showing up in reliable sources very soon. Figured some here might like to peruse for an idea of where coverage might be headed. Cheers, all. Dumuzid (talk) 19:33, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

In furtherance to the above, NBC News has now reported some of the details. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 21:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Is this time-line correct?

The article states: The shooting began on May 6, 2023, at 3:36 p.m. CDT. ... The Allen Police Department said that calls from the mall came in at 3:40 p.m., ... and tweeted that law enforcement was at Allen Premium Outlets at 4:22 p.m. It took police almost an hour to arrive? That does not seem correct. Is it? Thanks. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 04:37, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that struck me as strange, and most likely incorrect. WWGB (talk) 06:48, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The tweet stating that law enforcement was on the scene was sent by APD at 4:22 pm CDT. The tweet did not state that LE arrived at the mall at 4:22 pm CDT. One can imagine that tweeting was relatively low in the priority of tasks APD was handling between 3:36 pm and 4:22 pm. General Ization ^Talk 13:36, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

OK, that makes more sense. The tweet itself was sent at 4:22 pm. The current wording makes it sound as if the tweet -- whenever it was sent -- indicates that the police arrived at the mall at 4:22 pm. I think it should be re-worded more clearly. In other words, the time of 4:22 p.m. is not particularly relevant ... if it only refers to when the tweet itself was sent. Mention of the specific time would be relevant if the police arrived at 4:22 pm. Thanks. 32.209.69.132 (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Shooter’s social media use

According to [1], Garcia preferred to use Odnoklassniki for his social media activities, likely because of its lack of moderation. He also identified as an incel, and praised the Nashville shooter (which is a little surprising because you wouldn’t ordinarily expect a Nazi to praise a transgender person). 2600:1014:B06D:AF70:3989:309A:D16C:B2FF (talk) 02:14, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

This link has even more details about the perpetrator, including what appears to be a photo of Garcia taken from his OK profile. I’m not sure if it would meet the “fair use” standard for inclusion in this article, though. He posted “Go Tell Aunt Rhody that everyone is dead” right before the shooting. 2600:1014:B06D:AF70:3989:309A:D16C:B2FF (talk) 02:28, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

More Garcia info

• According to a CNN article, Garcia joined the U.S. Army in June 2008 right after he graduated from Bryan Adams High School in the Casa View section of East Dallas in May 2008.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 22:52, 8 May 2023 (UTC) After his removal, an Army official told CNN that Garcia was removed from the Army in September 2008 because of designated physical or mental health conditions after three months.

• The Dallas Morning News reports that Garcia is born and raised in Dallas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 22:43, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

• At the age of 25, Garcia worked as a security guard in 2015 for Northwest Dallas-based Ruiz Protective Service, but the company’s head, Hector Ruiz, told CNN that Garcia resigned after a few months. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 07:17, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

• Garcia did have some arrest history from neighboring Garland and in his home in Dallas according to The Dallas Morning News. Although DMN said that Garcia has no history of incarceration within the state prison system, Texas Department of Criminal Justice Director of Communications Amanda Hernandez confirmed. He had an active misdemeanor warrant for drug paraphernalia in Garland from 2020, according to police records. Another source said that his last arrest was in February 2022 for unknown reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 22:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Also can you re-add his date of birth? 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 22:25, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

That is not a reliable source. WWGB (talk) 22:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

What reliable source? CNN, Twitter, TDMN, or all of the above? 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 22:41, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

You have edited the above since WWGB's reply, but I believe the meaning was that the Twitter link was not reliable to use for the date of birth. --Super Goku V (talk) 23:19, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh. Well I'm still looking for other sources than Twitter to see if the DOB is correct. 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 23:46, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

References

Victims

There have been many sources about the victims, such as CNN(https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/08/us/victims-allen-texas-outlet-mall-shooting/index.html), BBC(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65527487), among other trustworthy sources that could be added to the page. My idea is to add, listed on many other Wikipedia pages, as bullet points with name, then age. An example is:

• Kyu Cho, 39
• Cindy Cho, 36
• James Cho, 3
• Daniela Mendoza, 11
• Sofia Mendoza, 8
• Christian LaCour, 20
• Aishwarya Thatikonda, 27
• Elio Cumana-Rivas, 32 Poiwert (talk) 11:09, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done. There is a discussion underway at Talk:2023 Allen, Texas outlet mall shooting#List of victims. WWGB (talk) 11:50, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

In the news

The ITN close seemed premature. It's one of key news items other than the coronation with major global coverage this week. Might be worth re-nominating, or making a DYK with the hook of being the second deadliest US shooting this year. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:44, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Mass shootings are so common in the US that they're only ITN-worthy if they have a double-digit death toll or are carried out by terrorist groups. It's worthy of DYK. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Time of shooting

This dashcam video shows the shooter getting out of his vehicle at 2:55pm local time.

https://twitter.com/dannyc_dc1111/status/1654985455467651072?s=46&t=elPZGTF_qPcwJSpYCtweSg Zifted (talk) 02:11, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't use this video as an official source. Especially because it's entirely possible the dashcam's time is not correct (I've seen videos, even from police dash/bodycams, that have blatantly incorrect times - so it's possible that the driver hadn't properly updated it to account for previous daylight savings, etc.). SuperbowserX (talk) 02:30, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

The time on a dashcam can be set manually and possibly the driver did not set the time correctly. Thus it can not be a evidence of the shooting time. In fact, I was walking by the gate of H&M by 2:55 (I have a receipt from a store near H&M on around 3:00). If the shooting start then, my name might already on those crosses. The shooting must start on or after 3:30, as then I was in the Coach store where I was hiding when the shooting started. Zhangrudian (talk) 15:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Newsmax aired photograph of wrong Mauricio Garcia in segment about shooting

I’m not sure if this is notable enough to put in the Reactions section or not. It does seem potentially problematic for Newsmax from a legal standpoint (could it be considered defamatory to the man whose picture they posted?) The segment also seems representative of a broader right-wing tendency in the USA to downplay the role of white supremacy in mass shootings, in this case by denying that a man named Mauricio Garcia could possibly have been motivated by such ideas. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2298 (talk) 07:09, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Per WP:DAILYBEAST, There is no consensus on the reliability of The Daily Beast. --Super Goku V (talk) 16:38, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Odnoklassniki Profile Source

All of the sources for the Odnoklassniki profile seem to come from Aric Toler on twitter, who in a now deleted tweet admitted to not confirming if it was the same person [2] and in another tweet said there were 50 different possible matches for people in that area with his birthday but that the profile was "my first choice of checking if it was him." [3] There's also the fact that the pictures on the profile don't really look like the shooter.

Also to mention the skimming over the praising of a transgender school shooter in the article , which would seem to somewhat contradict the "neo-nazi views" JH2903 (talk) 18:31, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

RS does say that the shooter praised the Nashville assailant: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-mall-shooter-shared-extremist-beliefs-jews-women-apparent-social-rcna83336 Lettler^{hello • contribs} 18:46, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

The shooter also wore the same kind of “RWDS” patch that was prominently featured on the profile. Those patches aren’t exactly a popular fashion statement, they are only ever worn by adherents of a fringe ideology. Also, the shooter appears to have had the same tattoos as the man on the profile as well. There have been several cases (such as on Newsmax, see above) where photos of someone else were incorrectly reported as being of the shooter, so that could explain any reported discrepancies as well.

As for the issue of praising Hale, I agree it seems weird, but consider the source. Garcia admitted to having mental issues, and shortly before the shooting he bemoaned how expensive it was to see a psychiatrist.

I think the article should go into more detail about that side of the shooter’s personality, as well as his self-described incel status (he once said that even if he did find a “perfect” woman who really loved him, that he could never possibly love her and would only want to inflict pain on her). That too is not historically typical of Nazis (Hitler doesn’t seem to have viewed Eva Braun that way). The fact that it’s so common among contemporary far-rightists demonstrates just how much cross-pollination there has been between the far-right and the incel subculture.

Being a Nazi and being a mentally unstable incel are not mutually exclusive, and the latter fact might explain any perceived inconsistencies in his worldview. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2298 (talk) 20:42, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Garcia's social media history

I found more sources on Garcia's social media history according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, featuring newly-released information about how he did before the attack and how he became part of Neo-Nazi white supremacism. It also includes when he joined ok.ru during the COVID-19 pandemic and how he got some extremely horrifying YouTube experience beforehand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:5225:C010:4456:68FE:6CFD:584 (talk) 2600:1702:5225:C010:895:66D5:EC93:455D (talk) 22:27, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

References

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. ––FormalDude (talk) 01:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Musk promoting conspiracy theories

Welp, it looks like the world’s second-richest man is engaging with conspiracy theorists who were calling this shooting a psyop. Does this belong in the Reactions section? 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2298 (talk) 16:17, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

If it gets more pickup, then probably. For me it's a wait-and-see, though there's an unfortunate sense of almost WP:MANDY to it. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 16:20, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

BBC has now picked it up as well, see: [4] 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2298 (talk) 21:40, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Musk is not the richest man in the world anymore, doesn't that makes him less credible than before? Otherwise, why not cite other billionaires like Gates, Buffet, etc.213.230.87.220 (talk) 02:01, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

It's a question of notability rather than credibility. Unfortunately, he is a man with a very large metaphorical megaphone, and reliable sources have a tendency to report on what he says. If enough do so, it would meet the threshold for inclusion (wherever we decide that is!). Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 02:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Might be more appropriate at Elon Musk. ––FormalDude (talk) 02:18, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Or Views of Elon Musk. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Musk is not an expert on mass shootings or conspiracy theories. His opinion here is irrelevant. WWGB (talk) 03:29, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Unless he gets such a share of coverage in reliable sources that it demands inclusion. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 03:36, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Sources appearing to be more covering Twitter overall than Musk alone in relation to the incident: CBS News, BBC, CNN, The New York Times. (Additionally, Vice falls under WP:VICE: There is no consensus on the reliability of Vice Media publications. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:18, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Perp born in Dallas County in 1989

See [5]. I think it’s worth including, because some right-wing figures have been (falsely) claiming the shooter was an immigrant, or was in the US illegally. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:2298 (talk) 16:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks like this could work. Do you have a suggested sentence to add or one in the article to amend? --Super Goku V (talk) 21:10, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

How about changing the opening sentence of the perpetrator section to: Mauricio Martinez Garcia, born 1989 in Dallas County, Texas, perpetrated the shooting. His age could either be mentioned earlier in the article (possibly in the lead), or else removed entirely since his birthdate implies his age range. 2600:1014:B06D:AF70:E89E:17:5A9C:9842 (talk) 22:43, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I have tried it and we will see if it works and see if there are any issues with that or with the formatting. For the moment, I have left the age out. --Super Goku V (talk) 00:05, 11 May 2023 (UTC)