Talk:2G spectrum case

Concerted attempt at POV pushing

It seems that there has been a concerted attempt by some individual(s) to strongly reword articles referring to controversial bureaucrat Pradip Baijal. Substantial sections of the text were reworded in a clear case of vandalism and POV pushing.

Sample of the text changes seen on this page:...

- despite the fact that several new policies were announced in the interim period

(Justification being provided for his controversial advice, but without any references provided)

further: The houses and offices of the bureaucrat were recently raided by the Central Bureau of Investigation as part of their investigations into the Telecom Scam was changed to The houses and offices of the bureaucrat were recently raided by the Central Bureau of Investigation as part of their investigations into the Telecom Scam which is unfortunate as it has put a black mark of 35 years of strong service for the country.

and so on.

Need to keep this article on a watchlist to prevent this kind of vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashlonerider (talk • contribs) 12:42, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Request lock on edits

2 users User:Amitchandra123 and User:Arjunagra have been resorting to blatant vandalism and POV pushing with regards to articles referring to Pradip Baijal. Request that this article be LOCKED until these vandals are dealt with!

--Ashlonerider (talk) 13:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Unless there is a serious problem the usual response is to revert the changes and invite the users to the talk page to discuss why they are doing what they are doing. Since these users have only made a few edits I think they must be new users, and I propose that we just assume good faith that they were trying to contribute in a way they felt was appropriate. I do not support a lock at this time. Blue Rasberry 20:29, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge stuff from Radia tapes controversy into here

Some of the material in Radia tapes controversy, especially Radia tapes controversy#Arrests and Chargesheets is more suited to this page than that one, since the arrests and chargesheets pertain to the larger 2G spectrum scam rather than the more specific Radia tapes aspect. Similarly, a significant part of Radia tapes controversy#Public Accounts Committee (Parliament of India) and Radia tapes controversy#Investigations can be moved here. Oops daisy (talk) 17:42, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I support that. In principle, the material in Radia tapes controversy should be restricted to the calls and the context around the recording: e.g. the legal basis for it and the claims about Nira Radia being an agent of a foreign power. All the broader stuff about the alleged scam belongs here. This is analogous to the distinction between Watergate tapes and Watergate scandal. I suggest you raise this at Talk:Radia tapes controversy. If you do, I will repeat this response there. - Pointillist (talk) 19:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

• Merged Oops daisy (talk) 05:27, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

kisan baburaow hazer involved in stoping 2g scamp

aana hazara is aganist corruption which will help stop such scamps — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.109.65.84 (talk) 04:37, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Latest TRAI Report on 2G pricing and CBI setback

2G loss? Govt gained over Rs 3,000cr: Trai

In the first week of september 2011, Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) has submitted its report on the investigation and estimation of losses incurred by the government to CBI special court. TRAI has told the court that it is not possible to estimate the loss at any grounds and it has also testimonied that Raja has followed the policies. Based on the TRAI facts that the accussed in this case would likely to get bail and it is considered as the biggest setback for the CBI Here is the summary on the same.

As per Times Of India (07 September 2011) and economic times,

The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) has told the CBI that former telecom minister A Raja master-minded allocation of 2G spectrum has earned profit between Rs 3,000 crores and Rs 7,000 crores for the government. 

When the CAG estimated Rs 1,75,000 crore loss to exchequer due to irregular spectrum allocation in 2008 and Union minister Kapil Sibal claimed "zero loss", the CBI pegged the loss at Rs 30,984.55 crores in its first charge sheet filed on April 2. On August 19, exactly after seven months, TRAI gave its response to the CBI.

The regulator said: "Given the scant data that is available to us, it is also not possible to estimate the standard of errors or the confidence of intervals for our estimates," TRAI clarified.

"It is therefore not possible to predict with certainty the precise values of spectrum that would have emerged in an auction. The risk of error in estimates increased since the exercise is carried out retrospectively and with meager data," it said.

Please refer to the following links;

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/2G-loss-Govt-gained-over-Rs-3000cr-Trai/articleshow/9890803.cms http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-09-05/news/30116023_1_trai-report-spectrum-case-2g http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/not-possible-to-quantify-2g-losses-says-trai-131732 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sivanesanvet (talk • contribs) 03:42, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

thanks for the links. i have added the info--Aryan wiki (talk) 20:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Copyvio investigation

I've had to blank and tag the article because of numerous copyright violations, most of them single sentences or even smaller phrases that have been taken from sources directly. Examples are:

• "the CBI arrested Mumbai based Dynamix Balwas (DB) group managing director Shahid Usman Balwa in connection with the 2G spectrum allocation scam" + "CBI has evidence from the Income Tax department that Shahid Usman Balwa, considered close to Raja, was instrumental in channelling the kickbacks allegedly received by the former telecom minister" from [1]
• "the CBI arrested Asif Balwa (younger brother of the arrested former Managing Director of DB-Etisalat Group, Shahid Balwa) and Rajeev Agarwal for their alleged involvement in money transfer to the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam's (DMK) Kalaignar TV channel." the source says "the Central Bureau of Investigation on Tuesday arrested Asif Balwa and Rajeev B. Agarwal here for their alleged involvement in “money transfer” to the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam's Kalaingar TV channel."

Many individual sentences are likewise taken from cited and uncited sources. Some of them may be backwards copies, so an investigation will flesh these out, or an earlier version of the article which did not have these copyvios will be reverted to. —SpacemanSpiff 15:34, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I am unsure of what I should do here. The issue is that this is an important political topic in India and a lot of people who use this article are non-native English speakers with no sense of copyright law. I started the article on solid ground but could not keep up with it while it was a hot topic. I would clean up the current version, but the notice says that only users with special permission should do this. Could someone give me the go ahead to do this, or is it really necessary that an admin or WMF designee do this? Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:10, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

There are three options right now:

1. Wait for someone who handles copyvios on a regular basis to take a look and clean up the article (likely a week or so), failing which the article will be reverted to an earlier version which doesn't have the copyvios.
2. Go through the article and check each sentence to see if it's a copyvio or close-paraphrase (I've found over five so far) and remove or completely rewrite them in your own words.
3. Open the show link at "Otherwise, you may write a new article without copyright-infringing material. Click "Show" to read where and how." on the copyvio notice and rewrite the article at the temp location by creating the temp page at the provided link. You can use all the sources already listed in the article but write it in your own words.

I would not suggest the second option -- that is what I was trying to do at first and it gave me a big headache already. 3 seems best IMO. Also note that there are some BLP vios within the article too. cheers. —SpacemanSpiff 16:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. User:SpacemanSpiff asked my feedback here (I regularly work copyvios), and I think under the circumstances we can do a kind of modification of 1 and 3. I've gone ahead and reverted back to a point that we know is clear, User:Bluerasberry, because it was really the last point before your clean base began to expand. Ordinarily, I would rev delete at this point, but I'll leave the copyright problems in the history for a week in case you or somebody else wants to look at the sources that were used and the information to expand this article with clean text. Please, please, be very careful in adding text that was put in by anyone else. At this point, much of it must be suspect. :( --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 16:36, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for leaving it. I will assume all of it is suspect, but I would appreciate the time to pull the sources out and get a general idea of what kind of information other users thought they should get from which sources. I will post updates on this page and I think I can work on this today. Blue Rasberry (talk) 17:33, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Hype is covered and Real issue is suppressed

Nowhere in the article three main points related to corruption are mentioned: 1. Arbitrarily changing (advancing) the deadline to suit only some companies. 2. Changing the definition of First Come First Serve from the application submission order to draft (monetary instrument) submission order after the applications were submitted to favor some companies in getting the spectrum ahead of others. 3. Allowing the front companies to take spectrum for other telecom companies - e.g. DB realty for Reliance and Loop for Essar when license condition does not allow it.

I added it right now. thanks for sharing ur views--Aryan wiki (talk) 20:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Here comes my opinion on what can be proved in court and what can't be: These 3 crimes can be proven with right witnesses, collateral material etc. For the spectrum given at lower price, it is a policy decision and until a person/company can come and say, we were eligible, wanted to pay higher, were earlier in FCFS, but were denied, nothing can be charged in court of law. It could be a crime in court of people, but not court of law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hindicreator (talk • contribs) 06:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

A Myth

Hey guys this is a myth. Don't Believe this page. The case is pending even in its trial court. Its totally a mass beleif which need not to be correct. The media hyped that there was some scam. But no such. Thanks

Rox........ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.59.94.223 (talk) 08:00, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Move of page

User:Ohconfucius just moved the page from 2G spectrum scam to Indian 2G spectrum scam. Ohconfucius, could you please explain here why you did this? I do not like this move. The United Arab Emirates with Etisalat Norway with Telenor were intimately involved in this scam. Definitely this scam had a lot to do with corruption in India but it also involved other countries knowingly stealing from India. I would prefer that you move this back to the place where it was before then request comments by the process at Wikipedia:Requested_moves#Requesting_controversial_and_potentially_controversial_moves before you did this. Calling it just an Indian scam seems to me to blame the only the country of India for the problem, and even then just because it was a few politicians I would not like to blame the entire country. Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:53, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

• I felt that the article title was too non-specific to be of any benefit to readers looking for it. I asked myself to carefully consider what the subject was and how the reader might search for such an article. I reason that the central subject the allocation of 2G spectrum applications within India, and such telecoms licences (in India and elsewhere) typically involve foreign bidders, and Etisalat and Telenor were merely parties to the corrupt dealings, so I did not see how their involvement may have any incidence on the title. The move reflected my first choice for a genuinely descriptive title. A second choice would have been"2G spectrum scam in India". As there appear to have been so many parties involved, it would be too cumbersome to name them all in the title. I had also considered using "Indian Government" in the title instead of "India" – as the government was equally central, but we get caught in the failure to name other parties and other potential NPOV traps. -- Ohc ^¡digame!_{¿que pasa?} 22:57, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
  • I'm inclined towards Blue Rasberry's view here, against that of my good friend OC. There's the issue of creating nation-based odour (sometimes unavoidable, but not here), and the fact that without the country-name it's still unique and identiable—probably what searchers would type into google. Tony (talk) 04:54, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
    • Well, yes and no. Whilst it's true that a search simply for "2G spectrum scandal" for the very topic seems to be easily searchable, it's clear from the hits that the search is contextual – most are from Indian press. The problem I have with "2G spectrum scandal" is that the context is completely absent, and we are left with no clues whatsoever as to where and/or what part of the 2G spectrum there is a problem with. We don't know whether it's a technological scandal or a political one. Chances are that this is not the only scandal involving the 2G spectrum, although it seems to be a significant one. I feel that adding "Indian" scopes it adequately. It's no longer ambiguous, and nobody is left with any doubt about the subject. As to nation-based odour, I don't see why it needs to be avoided – India's corrupt politics is one of the political world's worst-kept secrets, and that whiff comes off immediately from reading the article. -- Ohc ^¡digame!_{¿que pasa?} 23:51, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

There is no "American" or "British" or "Australian" attached to almost none of the scandals from there however minor or major. Assuming that we should put "Indian" on what is one of the biggest scandals in the world (in scope) is patronizing and wrongly assumes that Wikipedia English has some sort of default "home" country from where India is "outside" of. -Loginnigol (talk) 21:54, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

• An incorrect move was just done. I support the intent, but I reverted it to maintain the history which should not be split - see wp:MOVE and WP:RM/CM for what should happen. An administrator needs to move this if the article is to come to 2G spectrum scam. The original move by Ohconfucius was out of procedure and without consensus, and now this move has incorrectly left the history at Indian 2G spectrum scam. Here is what needs to happen -

1. If Ohconfucius wishes or anyone else wishes to call for comments about the move, then that should happen.
2. If there is no call for a move, then the article should return to the stable name of 2G spectrum scam (without the word Indian) and needs to be moved there by an administrator.
3. Whatever the article's name is, the history should be with that article.

Because I do not want to split history and only for that reason, I am moving the article back. Loginnigol, do you understand what is happening and see the problem with the way you did it? Let's give others time to comment, and if there is support, then we will move it by the instructions. Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:43, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 04:09, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

---

Indian 2G spectrum scam → 2G spectrum scam – 2G spectrum scam is the name for this event. It has been proposed that the name should be "Indian 2G spectrum scam" to give context to the event per WP:PRECISE, but I find this argument lacking because calling it Indian does not give it useful context because without knowing of this event no one would know what a "2G spectrum scam" might be just with the context of it being Indian. Additionally, it is not even accurate to call it Indian since it was an international conspiracy involving entities from other countries robbing India with Indian conspirators. This event is known in media as the 2G spectrum scam and not the Indian 2G spectrum scam. It might be appropriate to add context to the title but using the word Indian is not the way, and using the word "Indian" applies a political blame to a crime which might be better placed on individuals than a country. There is no other 2G spectrum scam or any other spectrum scam event in the world- this is the only one. While adding context might be nice, there can be no confusion about this "2G spectrum scam" and anything similarly named. Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:57, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I don't see the acribing of political blame to India at all, all I see is the description of the jurisdiction involved, India. -- 65.94.76.3 (talk) 00:16, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
• Strong support per WP:PRECISE Red Slash 09:16, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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User suggests Tamil content

A.Pugalenthi just added content in Tamil. This looks like a copypaste and so might be a copyright violation. I am not sure if anything here could be translated to English. Blue Rasberry (talk) 11:39, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

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Reverted name change

The name was earlier changed after a requested move above .Hence another requested move is required to change the name.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:32, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 11 January 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was:  Done moved to 2G spectrum case, and created redirect with the alternative title to it. (non-admin closure) Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 20:14, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

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2G spectrum scam → 2G spectrum case – The court has acquitted all the accused in the case, stating in its judgement that "Absolutely no hesitation in holding that the prosecution has miserably failed to prove any charge against any of the accused" , and virtually saying that there was no scam. Therefore, a name change is necessitated. Continuing to use the word 'scam' may be a case of WP:Libel. The media have also mostly stopped referring to it as the '2G scam'. As a side note, the word 'scam' should also be avoided in articles of the accused, including Manmohan Singh, A. Raja and Kanimozhi, as this may be a violation of WP:BLP. The Discoverer (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

• Agreed move to the suggested title or perhaps this one 2G spectrum allocation case.  samee  ^talk 10:36, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
• Support. The 'scam' title is inaccurate and tendentious. Move to 2G spectrum case (or 2G spectrum allocation case per Samee) Mortee (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - As the nominator, I am ok with both titles: 2G spectrum case and 2G spectrum allocation case. When applying the principles in WP:TITLE here, I feel that 2G spectrum case is more suitable in terms of precision and conciseness. The Discoverer (talk) 11:19, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The blame has been put on A raja only

It looks like the writer wants to put all blame on A raja only but actually whole upa was culprit. Its not that they sold spectrum at lower cost but rather they made spectrum much costlier than it should actually be, since internet is quite economic today they are trying to take advantage, but it is because the scam was open to people and nda government curbed it. It is also possible that even nda government did so in order to gain political advantage and was not interested in curbing corruption. Because no culprits are still in jail. Main issue is with ceiling act. In india government has fixed limit on number of floors in a builiding, because these buildings hide signals from mobile towers, but if one has to earn money by distributing spectrum he will want more hinderance, hence upa government allowed unnecessary building of floors. And earned through spectrum licence. more buildings mean more towers and more towers mean more licences, and thus more money. Now those buildings are problems, most of them empty. And they also cause natures degradation leading to land slides in mountain area. Manishwriter (talk) 08:51, 23 February 2024 (UTC)