Talk:Amish

Emergence of the Amish

In my view, the paragraph "Emergence of the Amish" is too short for a deeper understanding of the division that led to the formation of th Amish. I know, there are different views about that. For this reason, a rough translation of the German paragraph about the division is shown below as basis for a discussion of the problem. --Dan Holsinger 176.199.208.172 (talk) 10:50, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

At the end of the 17th century, the strict application of the Dordrecht Confession by the Mennonite elder Jakob Ammann caused unrest in the Swiss and nearby Alsatian communities. One reason for this conflict was closer the contact of the Alsatian Mennonites with the Netherlands and the similarity of the conditions in both areas, namely a relatively greater tolerance on the part of the government. 

In this dispute, the main opponent to Amman was the Swiss Mennonite elder Hans Reist, with whom Ammann also argued about the question of who could be saved, i.e. who would go to heaven. 

In Switzerland at that time, many non-Mennonites helped the persecuted Mennonites by hiding them or giving them other help, thereby saving their lives. Hans Reist thought that these so-called Treuherzige ("true hearted") could also be saved even though they did not enter the (Anabaptist) church which was understood as the only true church. Many of these "true hearted" were also very close to Mennonite beliefs, but circumstances, such as fear of loss of life, prevented many from joining them. 

Ammann saw this much more rigorously: He demanded a complete conversion to the Anabaptist faith with all its consequences. The true believers should "take up their cross " and would then have a "living hope of salvation", while doubters and undecided, who "yet love this world even more than the Lord", can expect no mercy. This was one of the main points of the dispute. 

Based on the Dortrecht Confession of 1632 and the Bible, which speaks of a humble way of life, Ammann also called for strict discipline in the community and compliance with certain rules about the believers' clothing and beard. As a result, many strict elements were actually implemented in the congregations that followed him. 

All of these arguments ended in a division. Thus the "Ammannsche“ (“Amman's”) people" came into being. Ammann was responsible for the division: he banned anyone who disagreed with him and demanded that the community break off contact with banned people (Meidung). This also applied within the family: from then on, if one was banned, husband and wife had to abstain from their marital life and were not allowed to eat at the same table. 

Ammann later realized that his proceeding was too rigid and banned himself as punishment. However, by this point the split was already too entrenched to be reversed. From 1693 on, there were two separate factions of the Swiss Brethren or Mennonites in southern Germany, Alsace and Switzerland.

Reverting my edits (2a02:8071:b81:a3a0:3512:57ed:fddd:5d8e)

It is impossible to find a citation for the deletion of a sentence that does not fit into a paragraph! That words like "Oberländer" und "Emmentaler" are German and not Pennsylvania German is obvious to anybody who knows both languages. The Pennsylvania German version of these words would be "Ovalänner" and "Emmedaler".

The same is true for “Schandename"! Just try to search for "Schandname" and "Schandename" you will find that "Schandename" is mostly found as a reflection of the Wikipedia article Amish! The normal German word is "Schandname". This generalized reverting prevents the article to become better, that is, with fewer errors. Please let somebody who has some expertise in the subject review my edits.

Unfortunately there are reasons why I cannot register at Wikipedia, but just this fact doesn't make all my edits wrong or useless"! 2A02:8071:B81:A3A0:F8FF:32B6:6AA9:1B6D (talk) 19:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

No birth control

The article states: "a population that is rapidly growing, as the Amish generally do not use birth control." This is not the case! Even though limiting the number of children is a topic that normally is not discussed among the Amish, the fact that the number of children systematically increases in correlation with the conservatism of a congregation, is a clear indication that some kind of birth control is used. This is clearly stated in pages 157-158 in Donald B. Kraybill, Karen M. Johnson-Weiner, and Steven M. Nolt, The Amish, Baltimore 2013. Because of this I will change the statement. -Menischt (talk) 11:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Conservative congregations have more children. That's a simple fact. You would have to make some jumps of logic to get to your assertion.162.246.139.210 (talk) 18:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

That's exactly what Menischt just said. What are you disagreeing with? 57.135.233.22 (talk) 22:14, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

rumspringa translation seems off

I noticed that rumspringa, in "religious practices," is translated as "around running". While not technically incorrect, I feel as though around running isn't really a "flowing" translation, and I feel as though "running around" fits better. I don't want to just change it without consulting anyone, though, so I've posted this problem in the talk section. Rocktessel (talk) 19:25, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Rocktessel, yes, it should most certainly be translated as 'running around'. In that section, as it is placed in English after the German, please use the {{gloss}} template for it, as I did just now; that will render it in MOS:SINGLE quotes. Pick any of these sources you like, almost all of them say "running around", and that's what the article should say as well. Mathglot (talk) 06:08, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I've changed it from 'around running' to 'running around', and added a source. I hope it's all ok, seeing as I'm pretty new to editing wikipedia. If I did do something wrong, please either change it, or give me instructions on how to change it (and what to change). Thank you for the help. Rocktessel (talk) 10:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)