Talk:Arab and Muslim rescue efforts during the Holocaust

New name

This needs a new name. "Hero" is undoubtedly accurate, but not encyclopedic. See Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews. IronDuke 14:50, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

What name would you propose "Rescues of North African Jews during the Holocaust?" Isn't this too long? The thing is that I believe the word "Holocaust" should be in the name of the article.--Mbz1 (talk) 14:55, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, it stumped me as well. I will think about it, hopefully others can weigh in. IronDuke 15:34, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I think "Rescues of North African Jews during the Holocaust?" would be a better choice. It is long, but not too long (there are many articles with far longer names). --Soman (talk) 20:31, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I wonder, though, if there might not be a better title that specifies it ws, in fact, North Africans who did the rescuing. IronDuke 20:44, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Some ideas here maybe? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:55, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

How about "Arab Holocaust rescuers"? Concise, and mentions the Holocaust in the title. I prefer "rescuers" to "heroes", since the latter is an expression of opinion (accurate maybe, but still an opinion) --NSH001 (talk) 18:38, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I suggest this be merged into a as yet unwritten article titled Arabs and the Holocaust detailing both collaboration and attempts to save Jews by Arabs. Volume 21 of Holocaust and genocide studies (Yad Vashem and the US Holocaust Memorial Council), The Arabs and the Holocaust: The Arab-Israeli War of Narratives (Macmillan), Multidirectional memory: remembering the Holocaust in the age of decolonization (Stanford U Press) would be among the sources that could be used for such an article. nableezy - 17:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

"No occupied country, in Africa or Europe, was free of collaboration with the genocide campaign against the Jews." "Some Arabs collaborated with the Axis powers by helping to locate Jews or working as guards in labor camps, while few others risked their own lives to attempt to save Jews from persecution and genocide."

These two sentences are both indicating there is more to be said on Arabs and the Holocaust.Bigjimleo (talk) 01:20, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

For consistence, I suggest "Rescue of Jews by Arabs during the Holocaust". Chesdovi (talk) 09:30, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that is this article is not focusing on the rescue of Jews but rather it focuses on the rescuers. I wouldnt be opposed to using that as a name, but the article would need to be substantially rewritten so that the coverage is more on the actions and not the people. nableezy - 16:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

You could just call it something like 'Arab actions during the Holocaust' and cover both rescuers and killers. 68.69.69.9 (talk) 22:35, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Arab rescue efforts during the Holocaust? Chesdovi (talk) 10:34, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

I support this name. Hermione is a dude (talk) 23:56, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Fine with me.--Mbz1 (talk) 00:28, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Support also and actioned. –Moondyne 09:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

editorial content

There are a few editorial comments in the article that may well be true but are not suitable for an encyclopedia, or at least are not worded in such a way. If you really want the sentence "Now, when some Arab leaders are denying the Holocaust has ever happened they are denying their own history at the same time." keep it, but in my opinion that is an editorial comment unsuited for an encyclopedia article. nableezy - 18:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, it is mentioned in the article that it is an opinion, but the same sources are used here.--Mbz1 (talk) 16:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I am not disputing that some Arabs, including some Arab leaders, have engaged in Holocaust denial. My point is that this is simply an editorial comment not really relevant to the subject of the article. What encyclopedia would accuse people of "denying their own history"? An editorial would do such a thing, but an encyclopedia article would not. nableezy - 19:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree with Nableezy. This quote is inappropriate for the topic introduction and would be hard to include anywhere in this article. As written now, including the title, this article appears to have an agenda other than knowledge sharing.Bigjimleo (talk) 01:12, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

And what is an agenda of the article, if I may ask please?--Mbz1 (talk) 03:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

It appears to have an agenda of promoting Arab-Israeli relations (the fact of the intention of the author doesn't matter, just appearance to readers). This impression of agenda primarily comes from the title and this quote. The quote would be relevant in a discussion of the ongoing "dispute" between those who deny history and those who experienced it. However, in an article describing the efforts of Arabs who helped Jews to escape the Holocaust, both the quote and title infer that the author had a purpose beyond knowledge sharing to me. "Heroes" assumes a bias that helping Jews was a good thing (I agree with that, but there are those who wouldn't) and the quote reinforces this by implying that those who would deny the Holocaust would deny the "Heroes". That the article mentions that there were collaborators without linking or otherwise providing examples, but focuses on the rescuers also seems to reinforce this. However, I don't think that part needs to change right away. It just indicates an area for additional articles or expansion of this one.

The short of it is that maintaining NPOV is very tough in some articles and areas. However, if an article doesn't maintain NPOV either in fact or appearance, it becomes a target for those with baser instincts. Today it's the heroes who helped some Jews escape. Tomorrow, some jerk comes in and replaces the content with the "heroes" who turned Jews over to the Nazis. Bigjimleo (talk) 19:54, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Tagging the article

IMO the article is well sourced. I am not sure why it was tagged.--Mbz1 (talk) 05:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Could we have a change of title?

from the present Arab rescue efforts during the Holocaust to 'Arab and Islamic rescue efforts during the Holocaust'? This would enable us to be more comprehensive, and avoiding creating a mini fork.Nishidani (talk) 12:17, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, change the title. ALBANIAN are not ARABS and even they don't have same relatives or culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.225.60.5 (talk) 09:05, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

External links

Saviours in a strange world needs to be replaced since it leads to the current edition of timesonline and https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/saviours-in-a-strange-world-9j0g3ndm3hh only leads to the full article for those with a subscription. Mcljlm (talk) 14:20, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

References

I added the original link to the article NEW BOOKLET REVEALS MUSLIM ACTS OF HEROISM DURING HOLOCAUST https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/New-booklet-reveals-Muslim-acts-of-heroism-during-Holocaust in addition to the webarchive link but my edit was reverted. As long as the original article is online a link to it should be included. Mcljlm (talk) 12:37, 4 November 2019 (UTC)