Talk:Black veganism

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worst effort, or one of the worst?

I feel like this article is a complete mess, but I'm not sure how to fix it. Hoping others will be interested. —valereee (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

This is a bit of disturbing article. Veganism is now a racial thing? The problem I see is that there is no academic or scholarly sources that mention "black veganism", I do not believe this actually exists. There is no such thing as black veganism, just like there is no Asian veganism, Latino veganism or white veganism, there is just veganism. We should not be racializing veganism on Wikipedia based on a few faddish newspaper articles. Veganism has nothing to do with politics and I cannot find any evidence that "black veganism" actually exists as a philosophy political or not. I also believe there is a false synth here. There are a few newspaper articles discussing afro Americans that happen to be vegans but this doesn't mean there is a movement of "black veganism". Psychologist Guy (talk) 23:45, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

I do feel like it's a thing. I'm not confident in/about how I've dealt with it. —valereee (talk) 00:28, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Black veganism is discussed in more detail in Aph Ko and Syl Ko's book, Aphro-ism. Funcrunch (talk) 02:17, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Funcrunch, thank you, I've ordered it through interlibrary loan! —valereee (talk) 21:07, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

I've added a scholarly article that defines Black veganism specifically as a political protest. —valereee (talk) 19:52, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Make that several. —valereee (talk) 22:36, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:27, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that in the United States, Blacks are twice as likely as the general population to identify as vegan? Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/01/24/fastest-growing-vegan-demographic-is-african-americans-wu-tang-clan-other-hip-hop-acts-paved-way/ "A 2016 Pew Research Center survey found 3 percent of American adults overall identified as vegan...That number jumps to a startling 8 percent among African American adults."

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sigge Stark

Created by Valereee (talk). Self-nominated at 23:12, 14 June 2021 (UTC).

• ALT1: ... that Blacks are the fastest-growing demographic of vegans in the United States, with twice as many identifying as vegan as compared to the general population? Same source, "The fastest-growing vegan demographic is African Americans."

• Comment: Apologies if this is nit-picky, but my understanding is that "African Americans" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as "Black people in the United States". It might be good to ensure that the wording reflects the sources in that sense, both in the hooks and the article. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 20:01, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

ezlev, not at all. The sources in this article seem to use them interchangeably. Blacks is a bigger group than African-Americans, and since Black includes (for example) many people from Jamaica (which AA doesn't always), I think Black is probably correct here? Open to other arguments. —valereee (talk) 20:23, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I think you're right that Black is probably the correct/ideal term to use here, I just worry that it might not align with the meaning of the sources – for example, the Pew Research Center survey referenced in the source for ALT0 may really have been discussing African Americans in the sense of "Black American citizens" or something else that's semantically different from "Black people in the United States". That's why I'm not sure of the best course of action here. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 20:29, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Ezlev, sorry, how is Black Americans different from Black people in the US? —valereee (talk) 22:10, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

It's different because one can be in the US without being American. Again, nitpicky, and unfortunately the ambiguity lies in the sources themselves, which is why I suggested that it might be good to just use the same terminology they do although it's probably fine either way. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 22:28, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

So you're concerned the researchers were talking to a significant number of Blacks who were at the time in the US but weren't actually American citizens? —valereee (talk) 22:47, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I wouldn't go so far as "concerned"... I was scrolling through the noms, saw what looked like a possible source–content inconsistency, figured I would point it out. Now that I've done that, I don't feel a need to keep discussing it unless you'd like to. You're probably right that the discrepancy wouldn't be significant. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 23:05, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

• Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:12, 5 July 2021 (UTC

• New enough and long enough. QPQ present. Has all the citations it needs, including on the hook fact (though I find the last paragraph in "History" has two redundant sentences back to back, Valereee). The article content looks fine; there are a couple more redlinks than I'd normally see in a new DYK, but I suspect some of the topics might be notable if they have the sourcing (maybe not SupaNova Slom though). This is a great piece in terms of countering systemic bias, too. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:19, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, Sammi Brie! I've fixed that sentence! —valereee (talk) 10:20, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

removal

Hey, @KoA, no objections to the other removals, but the fact this isn't the BLP for Ko doesn't mean we don't mention someone who is being called a leader in the field? —valereee (talk) 19:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm mostly here checking in after seeing concerns brought up at WP:FTN. The mention of Ko did come across as WP:PUFFERY as part of the sort of name-dropping issue I was seeing across the article. There really aren't strong sources that warrant name-dropping people like that, and it's leading to a bit of a WP:COATRACK issue across the article that makes it seem unfocused. I'm on fairly limited time for now, so I only tackled a few of things that jumped out to me right away in that regard. I know Psychologist Guy was taking a look at the article too, so maybe they have other ideas. KoA (talk) 21:39, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

That's okay, we can talk. How would you like to handle it? —valereee (talk) 21:46, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

KoA, as far as I know there are only two peer-reviewed papers in the animal rights literature that exclusively discuss "black veganism". I agree with the article that it might be seen as an "emerging" discipline. But as it stands currently this is very much fringe. In 5-10 years there will be more academic literature, discussion and responses on the subject from scholars. It might become its own little academic sub-field similar to vegetarian ecofeminism but right now it is very early days. This has just mostly been blown up by certain media reports. I agree with another user who left a comment about black veganism on the Fringe noticeboard that there is a serious lack of WP:SCHOLARSHIP currently on the subject. If this article was created in a couple of years time I think there would have been more academic sources to use but as stated right now not much exists on the topic. Psychologist Guy (talk) 15:54, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Fringe Theories Noticeboard

For anyone interested, there's a discussion at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Black_veganism —valereee (talk) 22:38, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

"Michelle Davis (blogger)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Michelle Davis (blogger) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 17#Michelle Davis (blogger) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jalen Folf (talk) 04:14, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Statistics

The source of "Research has found that about 8% of Black Americans are vegan or vegetarian, which is much higher than the 3% rate among Americans of other ethnic groups." links to a BBC article.

The actual survey is at https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2016/12/01/the-new-food-fights/

If we look at the margin of error in "mostly/strictly vegan or vegetarian" it is 14 percent points, which is significantly more than the 3% and 8% found. So we cannot conclude there is a difference based on this study (not to mention that this article is called "Black Veganism" and not "Mostly/Strictly Vegan- or Vegetarianism".

I propose we remove this sentence. 62.163.252.147 (talk) 15:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)