Talk:Coriolanus Snow

History at "President Snow"

See the article and talk page history at President Snow. This article has been written entirely by myself, independently of all other content on Wikipedia (past or present) about the character. He is notable as the protagonist of The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, who has been analysed in-depth by critics as demonstrated by references in the article. — Bilorv (talk) 21:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

@Bilorv: In the future, please make a request at WP:RM/T rather than perform a cut-and-paste move, which inappropriately splits the page's history. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@InfiniteNexus: no content has been cut and paste here, per my comment above. — Bilorv (talk) 13:44, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Bilorv: I think that what InfiniteNexus meant was that you had created the article in userspace or offline, then you had cut and pasted your own independent work into mainspace under the title which had previously been a redirect.

The issue with that cut and paste move is that we cannot see the history of the article's original creation - and you had clearly put a lot of work into it before we saw it in mainspace, so you are not getting the formal credit for the original article creation. You have been a WP editor long enough to apply to be a file mover, and that will give you the facility to move a page along with all the article's edit history, provided that you had worked it up in userspace or as a draft article on en.WP. Any admin should be able to do that for you (i,e. give you the file mover facility, or move the page for you). As far as I am aware, it is too late to add in the missing history of this article, though. Storye book (talk) 09:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

This still doesn't make sense to me. The article was created by me in a single edit. There is no further history of my edits in userspace or draft space. Separately, even looking at Special:ListGroupRights I can't see what right a file mover has that applies in mainspace (or outside of the File namespace). — Bilorv (talk) 17:50, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, please forgive me then, if I am somewhat surprised that in one edit you created a long, carefully-composed article of over 14,000 characters, with 37 citations, infobox, Hunger Games template and two pictures, without the advantage of testing out all the links, checking for typos etc. in userspace beforehand. I am a fast touch typist with experience of over half a century, plus over 40 years of using computers, plus nearly twenty years' experience of creating articles here - and I couldn't do that in one edit, even if I were only typing up a hand-written script. It would be more than a day's work, one has to eat and sleep, and the work would be lost without intermediate saves. But if as you say you had no equivalent of a hand-written script, then picking up all the little bits of information from different places (assuming you knew exactly where those sources were) plus filling in a citation form for each source ... well, can you see that I might be puzzled?

As for file mover rights - what happens is that you get an extra tab on your WP page, which gives you a drop-down form, which you fill in to rename a page. So normal practice would be to create a subpage in your userspace, use that subpage to work up your article, then use the move tab to move it to mainspace. The move to mainspace creates all the necessary redirects and takes with it all the edit history from that subpage. Thus it will be clear for all to see that you worked up the article yourself, and didn't e.g. create it using AI, or copying without acknowledgement from a variety of offline sources. Storye book (talk) 10:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@Storye book: Is this an accusation of plagiarism? I use the preview system, type citations and wikitext by hand, and regularly back up my writing offline. I wrote every character of this article myself (except for copying-and-pasting metadata e.g. URLs and file names) within the editing window. I don't claim my edits are free from typos and indeed regularly find (1, 2) that readers quickly discover and correct them.

I am happy to provide you with extracts from all cited sources or any of the books in The Hunger Games franchise for you to establish verifiability and lack of plagiarism. I am also happy to direct scrutiny and discussion to this article/talk page at a high-profile venue such as ANI if I am being accused of plagiarism or improper AI use. — Bilorv (talk) 17:27, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I have not accused you of anything. If you care to re-read the above, you will not find an accusation. My original intention was to explain what InfiniteNexus was talking about, and to make clear that that was not an accusation. Following that, you asked questions, and I was attempting to answer them. You do not need to prove anything. Now that you have said that you back up your edits offline, your statement that you created so much in one edit is beginning to make sense. It was that piece of missing information which puzzled me. Peace and love. Storye book (talk) 17:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Bilorv, I was under the impression that had you cut-pasted the contents of this article from elsewhere, based on your comment above that See the article and talk page history at President Snow. This article has been written entirely by myself [...] and the unusual singular large edit (the standard practice is to use the WP:DRAFTSPACE for this). If you say that is not the case, then I have no idea what you were talking about and why you mentioned the page President Snow. InfiniteNexus (talk) 06:10, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Coriolanus Snow/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Riley1012 (talk · contribs) 18:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I will review this article within the next week. -Riley1012 (talk) 18:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

1. Well-written

• Snow is influenced by Dr. Gaul's view of state control as necessity to prevent disorder. Should be "as a necessity"
• Snow reunites with Lucy Gray and they start a relationship... Add a comma before "and"
• He pursues her through the woods and she leaves a snake to attack him. Add a comma before "and"
• In Mockingjay, Snow directs the Capitol's military campaign to quash revolution in the Districts... Add "the" before "revolution"
• Instead she shoots rebellion leader Alma Coin... Add a comma after "Instead"
• He is a fascist and a totalitarian dictator who aims to crush revolution. Add "the" before "revolution" since we are discussing the specific revolution from the book/series.
• In his view, however, Lucy Gray betrays him and he becomes a colder character. Add a comma before "and"
• Snow believes Peeta loves Katniss but she does not reciprocate;... Add a comma before "but"
• Pavia was unclear which character the audience were supposed to support... Should be "was" instead of "were"
• Miller found his perspective tiring in the middle of the book, but praised... Remove the comma after "book" (or add "she" after "but")
• ...Mockingjay – Part 2 neglects other characters to focus on rivalry between Katniss and Snow... Add "the" before "rivalry"
  • All done, with "that"s added in Snow believes that Peeta loves Katniss, but that she does not reciprocate (it's not "Snow believes Peeta loves Katniss; in reality, Katniss does not reciprocate"). — Bilorv (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Verifiable
Plot summaries don't require citations per WP:PLOTSOURCE. The sources used are reliable.

• Earwig's Copyvio check similarities just for repeating the title of the books/movies and the quote "It's the things we love most that destroy us" - this is not a cause for concern. But the top similar link is reference 13, and there are a couple of identical phrases that should be reworded to avoid copyright violations.

• "This left him with bloody sores in his mouth" and "Grandma'am grows roses on the roof of their penthouse" should be reworded.
  • Yep, done. — Bilorv (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

• Spot check:

• No issues: 1, 5, 7 (per WP:RSPYT, YouTube videos from verified channels of reliable sources can be used), 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 21, 24, 26, 28, 30, 35, 41, 43

3. Broad

• The Hunger Games trilogy section notes notable differences between the books and films. Are there any notable differences in the movie adaptation of The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes?
  • Nothing that critics commented on. There's a huge difference in The Hunger Games (for various reasons covered in the article) whereas Ballad is a very direct adaptation. The main beats covered in "Character history" are the same. — Bilorv (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

4. Neutral
The article is neutral in its coverage of the character.

5. Stable
This article is stable day-to-day.

6. Illustrated
The images in the article qualify for fair use and have relevant captions. Wish there was a higher-quality image for Blythe, but there isn't one in the Commons yet.

@Riley1012: Thanks for the review! I think I've responded to all the points above—let me know if there's anything more to be done. — Bilorv (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

@Bilorv: Everything looks good now. I will pass, well done! -Riley1012 (talk) 21:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.